Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

[Gavin Hird]

This is probably the most important announcement this CEO is going to make (working for LL). Yet, he comes across totally unprepared. 

Such an announcement should not need any damage control at all. People should be positively excited after a major announcement like this.  ;-)

[Mony Lindman]

Yes I know and i do hope that such conversions will be possible  but i was answering to Cathy Foil who wants to teleport there with her whole inventory AS IS! That wont work..

[Zena Zemlja]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

This is probably the most important announcement this CEO is going to make (working for LL). Yet, he comes across totally unprepared. 

Such an announcement should not need any damage control at all. People should be positively excited after a major announcement like this.  ;-)

---

I agree. Huge mistake. And if you read back my first posts in this thread, you'll see that I was not happy at all, and I'm still not. I'm just trying to see things from a more positive perspective now. Given the mistake made, I think he did a good thing coming here, but I'm not saying all is well now, because he still has to correct his mistake for not making the official announcement. And I don't envy him on that, because with what happened so far, everyone will analyse every comma written on that announcement, so I guess they will take a few days to make it a really good one. :smileywink:

[Gavin Hird]

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Zena Zemlja wrote:

 so I guess they will take a few days to make it a really good one. :smileywink:

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Let's hope it is not a "Yeah, we made a mistake with the antenna, but really – You are holding the phone wrong" type of announcement, hehe

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

This is probably the most important announcement this CEO is going to make (working for LL). Yet, he comes across totally unprepared. 

Such an announcement should not need any damage control at all. People should be positively excited after a major announcement like this.  ;-)

---

"Major announcement"? Did you consider the development of Patterns a "major announcement"? This became "major" because someone decided to make it that way by posting supermarket-tabloid headlines and half-understood assumptions to over half the users. Why don't you bring it up with that group?

[Gavin Hird]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Gavin Hird wrote:

This is probably the most important announcement this CEO is going to make (working for LL). Yet, he comes across totally unprepared. 

Such an announcement should not need any damage control at all. People should be positively excited after a major announcement like this.  ;-)

---

"Major announcement"? Did you consider the development of Patterns a "major announcement"? This

became

"major" because someone decided to make it that way by posting supermarket-tabloid headlines and half-understood assumptions to over half the users. Why don't you bring it up with

that

group?

---

Well, if the man can't understand when he is making a major announcement and choose his audience  and communications strategy accordingly, I can't help him. 

[Mony Lindman]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

I think I've got the relationship between the new world and the existing Second Life figured out - it has a very simple real-world analogy, but one that doesn't immediately come to us because of how our world currently works. If this was happening one or two hundred years in the past or possibly one or two hundred years in the future it would be instantly understood.

The new world will be a

colony

of Second Life.

Colonies are created by existing cultures in some new territory. Only a few settlers arrive at first. Anyone can come and bring their identity, but they can only bring a few posessions and if you try to recreate your old lifestyle under the new conditions you'll end up looking like a fool at best. The colony will share a culture with the old world but will eventually develop its own - it may be dominated by the movers and shakers of the old world or it may be the new players who understand the new conditions better who will prosper. People can travel freely between the mother country and the colonies but most end up picking one or the other.

Colonies begin as financial burdens on the old country as their set up but they exist because they can provide resources the old land can't provide and the assumption is they will eventually be an economic asset for the old world.

In our time period we don't really understand colonies because there isn't anywhere new we can get to, and also it's a loaded concept today because we understand that the colonies of the past weren't really "new" at all - they already had people living there who had no say in the matter. This new virtual world, though, will actually be unpopulated - it would be closer to some space colony of the future.

 

---

The USA (at least parts of it) also started by being a british colony. And now ? Does the UK still rule the world or at least the waves , or is it the .. colony that rules all ?

Not to mention that tomorow it could be China. But thats maybe off topic.. for the moment 

[Mony Lindman]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

It's already a link.. when you copy a link and paste it it is a link.. you don't need to paste as link because it alrady is a link...

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Thats exactly what i did i copied the link and pasted it .. not as link but jut paste. And i dont see anything strange. Do you see some html or so in that post ? I dont..

[Zena Zemlja]

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

I think I've got the relationship between the new world and the existing Second Life figured out - it has a very simple real-world analogy, but one that doesn't immediately come to us because of how our world currently works. If this was happening one or two hundred years in the past or possibly one or two hundred years in the future it would be instantly understood.

The new world will be a

colony

of Second Life.

Colonies are created by existing cultures in some new territory. Only a few settlers arrive at first. Anyone can come and bring their identity, but they can only bring a few posessions and if you try to recreate your old lifestyle under the new conditions you'll end up looking like a fool at best. The colony will share a culture with the old world but will eventually develop its own - it may be dominated by the movers and shakers of the old world or it may be the new players who understand the new conditions better who will prosper. People can travel freely between the mother country and the colonies but most end up picking one or the other.

Colonies begin as financial burdens on the old country as their set up but they exist because they can provide resources the old land can't provide and the assumption is they will eventually be an economic asset for the old world.

In our time period we don't really understand colonies because there isn't anywhere new we can get to, and also it's a loaded concept today because we understand that the colonies of the past weren't really "new" at all - they already had people living there who had no say in the matter. This new virtual world, though, will actually be unpopulated - it would be closer to some space colony of the future.

 

---

The USA (at least parts of it) also started by being a british colony. And now ? Does the UK still rule the world or at least the waves , or is it the .. colony that rules all ?

Not to mention that tomorow it could be China. But thats maybe off topic.. for the moment 

---

The colony does rule our second lifes.. not sure about our first lifes though :smileywink:

And now that the colony has a swedish CEO on board, it's going to rule things quite different as well! :smileytongue:

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

I think I've got the relationship between the new world and the existing Second Life figured out - it has a very simple real-world analogy, but one that doesn't immediately come to us because of how our world currently works. If this was happening one or two hundred years in the past or possibly one or two hundred years in the future it would be instantly understood.

The new world will be a

colony

of Second Life.

Colonies are created by existing cultures in some new territory. Only a few settlers arrive at first. Anyone can come and bring their identity, but they can only bring a few posessions and if you try to recreate your old lifestyle under the new conditions you'll end up looking like a fool at best. The colony will share a culture with the old world but will eventually develop its own - it may be dominated by the movers and shakers of the old world or it may be the new players who understand the new conditions better who will prosper. People can travel freely between the mother country and the colonies but most end up picking one or the other.

Colonies begin as financial burdens on the old country as their set up but they exist because they can provide resources the old land can't provide and the assumption is they will eventually be an economic asset for the old world.

In our time period we don't really understand colonies because there isn't anywhere new we can get to, and also it's a loaded concept today because we understand that the colonies of the past weren't really "new" at all - they already had people living there who had no say in the matter. This new virtual world, though, will actually be unpopulated - it would be closer to some space colony of the future.

 

---

The USA (at least parts of it) also started by being a british colony. And now ? Does the UK still rule the world or at least the waves , or is it the .. colony that rules all ?

Not to mention that tomorow it could be China. But thats maybe off topic.. for the moment 

---

So the UK would have been in a better position today if they hadn't created colonies? Ach du Lieber - laecherlich!

[Mony Lindman]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Mony Lindman wrote: [...]

So what will you do with your SL avatar after you magically teleport to SL2  with your whole inventory as you say it should be possible? You would be a cloud (at best) , your lsl scripted AO will not work , starting animations by hand wont work either and whatever you will try to rez or wear from inventory will just NOT WORK. So why telport at all under these circumstances ?

---

I think you're probably right, but I also think that's largely a business decision, not a technical one, even granting that SL2 won't maintain backwards compatibility in all the ways Ebbe has mentioned. Incompatible changes can be made without making it impossible to import old content with reasonable success. The business decision is about how much value that has, compared to the cost of developing importers.

One example is LSL scripts. Now, SL2 will (almost certainly) run scripts in a Mono engine. Yeah, they

could

adopt something else, but I don't think it's likely; rather, I think it will just be one or more non-LSL languages compiling to Mono. There's no guarantee that the same functions will be exposed in SL2's API (for example, llGetMass() may simply have no counterpart in SL2), but probably 99% of actual scripts use only function calls that

will

have equivalents. So it's not rocket science to have those run on the new grid, with at most a recompile.

Similar sleight-of-hand could convert SL1 animations to SL2, as already discussed. And every prim or sculpt is already a textured mesh, however inefficient.

I'm not saying this will or should happen, but one doesn't have to ignore anything Ebbe has said about the changes to conclude that a vast majority of SL content

could

be transparently available in SL2 without constraining that new platform to real backwards compatibility.

---

Again .. i was answering to Cathy Foil who wants to teleport there with her whole inventory AS IS! That wont work..

As for converting and adapting old SL items to the new SL , I am as hopeful as anybody else that it would be possible but that's something else , it doesnt mean that you can just click the button "Beam me up Scotty" and teleport from SL 1 to SL 2 with your whole inventory and USE it there AS IS ..

 

[kiramanell]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Have you seen any of the chaos in the inworld groups because most people Inworld have no idea what is going on? The FUD is running rampant and all it would take is a simple post on the main page and on the log in screen to fix. This has been going on for 9 days. It's not whining, it's smart business practice. They have the means to tell everyone about it, but they choose not to. And you are impressed with him...

---

Yes. Something like "Now hear this! This is Rumor Control. These are the facts." I learned of it as FUD on a chat group too, Leaving your customers to guess is rarely an ideal way to go about it.

[irihapeti]

i think will be possible as well to make a SL-style avatar and import into the betterworld. Now that you have explained the technicals

+

i hope is your last thought tho that will be truth

that the default new resident human avatars (and mod this time) will be so way better than what we got now that everyone will just go o.m.g !!! And then bc is heaps of extra sliders and options then they go tweak tweak and o.m.g is me. But better

and then bc LL release a whole bunch of conversion kits all the skin makers go o.m.g I can reskin my skins easy peasy. And they do. and is better

and everybody goes o.m.g and rush off to the beauty parlour and get the same skin and makeups but better for their better self and they o.m.g is really me just how I ever imagined I should be. but better !!

+

and then some people will come rushing on the forums and go o.m.g !!  LL are soo idiots. Why they never done this years ago like I told them to in 2007and before even in 2004 !! i haz no faith in them Lindens even surviving until next month nvm next year. The idiots

(:

+

ps. but to be more serious

I do think will be the last thought. The human avatar for the betterworld will be magnitudes better

to get a taste for what will be then I suggest that people get a MBody demo made by Chip Midnight (the guy who invented the SL skin way back before even LL thought it was possible) or a Slink body demo made by Siddean Munro

watch how they move. Watch your elbows and knees and your butt as you animate and compare to SL avatar. These bodys are fittedmesh rigged to the very limited SL avatar. Imagine what these people and others like them (like Gaia as well)  will accomplish with a betterworld advanced skeleton. What people like Medhue will do to animate them. What the skin makers will do when they can apply materials instead of just pixel paint like they have to now

 

 

[Mony Lindman]

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

I think I've got the relationship between the new world and the existing Second Life figured out - it has a very simple real-world analogy, but one that doesn't immediately come to us because of how our world currently works. If this was happening one or two hundred years in the past or possibly one or two hundred years in the future it would be instantly understood.

The new world will be a

colony

of Second Life.

Colonies are created by existing cultures in some new territory. Only a few settlers arrive at first. Anyone can come and bring their identity, but they can only bring a few posessions and if you try to recreate your old lifestyle under the new conditions you'll end up looking like a fool at best. The colony will share a culture with the old world but will eventually develop its own - it may be dominated by the movers and shakers of the old world or it may be the new players who understand the new conditions better who will prosper. People can travel freely between the mother country and the colonies but most end up picking one or the other.

Colonies begin as financial burdens on the old country as their set up but they exist because they can provide resources the old land can't provide and the assumption is they will eventually be an economic asset for the old world.

In our time period we don't really understand colonies because there isn't anywhere new we can get to, and also it's a loaded concept today because we understand that the colonies of the past weren't really "new" at all - they already had people living there who had no say in the matter. This new virtual world, though, will actually be unpopulated - it would be closer to some space colony of the future.

 

---

The USA (at least parts of it) also started by being a british colony. And now ? Does the UK still rule the world or at least the waves , or is it the .. colony that rules all ?

Not to mention that tomorow it could be China. But thats maybe off topic.. for the moment 

---

So the UK would have been in a better position today if they

hadn't

created colonies?

Ach du Lieber - laecherlich!

---

No , thats not what im saying. Im saying that the "roles" can be inverted betwen colony and colonisator.. In other words if SL2 will start as a colony of SL1 , then in a while crocodile, it could be vice versa. Also.. umgekehrt , if you know what i mean

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Mony Lindman wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Mony Lindman wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

I think I've got the relationship between the new world and the existing Second Life figured out - it has a very simple real-world analogy, but one that doesn't immediately come to us because of how our world currently works. If this was happening one or two hundred years in the past or possibly one or two hundred years in the future it would be instantly understood.

The new world will be a

colony

of Second Life.

Colonies are created by existing cultures in some new territory. Only a few settlers arrive at first. Anyone can come and bring their identity, but they can only bring a few posessions and if you try to recreate your old lifestyle under the new conditions you'll end up looking like a fool at best. The colony will share a culture with the old world but will eventually develop its own - it may be dominated by the movers and shakers of the old world or it may be the new players who understand the new conditions better who will prosper. People can travel freely between the mother country and the colonies but most end up picking one or the other.

Colonies begin as financial burdens on the old country as their set up but they exist because they can provide resources the old land can't provide and the assumption is they will eventually be an economic asset for the old world.

In our time period we don't really understand colonies because there isn't anywhere new we can get to, and also it's a loaded concept today because we understand that the colonies of the past weren't really "new" at all - they already had people living there who had no say in the matter. This new virtual world, though, will actually be unpopulated - it would be closer to some space colony of the future.

 

---

The USA (at least parts of it) also started by being a british colony. And now ? Does the UK still rule the world or at least the waves , or is it the .. colony that rules all ?

Not to mention that tomorow it could be China. But thats maybe off topic.. for the moment 

---

So the UK would have been in a better position today if they

hadn't

created colonies?

Ach du Lieber - laecherlich!

---

No , thats not what im saying. Im saying that the "roles" can be inverted betwen colony and colonisator.. In other words if SL2 will start as a colony of SL1 , then in a while crocodile, it could be vice versa. Also.. umge

kehrt , if you know what i mean

 

---

I'm quite sure that will happen. So?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

my bad, i thought you were talking about in your inventory inworld.

[kiramanell]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

I'm not saying this will or should happen, but one doesn't have to ignore anything Ebbe has said about the changes to conclude that a vast majority of SL content

could

be transparently available in SL2 without constraining that new platform to real backwards compatibility.

---

Much as I'd love to see my many homes ported to SL2, at this point, it's hard to imagine even mesh, let alone prims, will come out looking unscathed 'on the other side.'

And if the new scripting language would require just a few tweaks to the old LSL to make stuff work again, then why even bother with an entirely new language at all?!

[irihapeti]

---

Zena Zemlja wrote:

You can rewrite my post all you want. 

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Don't mind Gavin. She just in here to spread FUD really. Gavin a OpenSim junkie. Dunno if she still doing it but used to try recruit people at Korea1 WA and others WAs inworld. LL this and LL that. Yada fud this. yadda fud that. Come to OpenSim. Is like SL. But Better !!! apparently

[Drongle McMahon]

"... to port an existing SL Avatar including its shape and textures ..."

Did you consider the baking of legacy outfit layers? I would guess that is unlikely to be replicated in the new world in a compatible way. I think the old avatars would be of limited use if they can't wear system clothes (might be wrong, maybe everyone alse wears entirely mesh and needs on;y one skin layer?). I guess you could get around that if you could get access to all the layer textures and composit them with photoshop/gimp or a purpose built utility. Wouldn't get the same flexibility, but might be useable, I suppose.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Drongle McMahon wrote:

"... to port an existing SL Avatar including its shape and textures ..."

Did you consider the baking of legacy outfit layers? I would guess that is unlikely to be replicated in the new world in a compatible way. I think the old avatars would be of limited use if they can't wear system clothes (might be wrong, maybe everyone alse wears entirely mesh and needs on;y one skin layer?). I guess you could get around that if you could get access to all the layer textures and composit them with photoshop/gimp or a purpose built utility. Wouldn't get the same flexibility, but might be useable, I suppose.

---

The current procedure for mesh body parts is to have a series of onionlike layers that textured clothing can be applied to - instead of a shirt texture being combined with a skin texture it's added to one of the upper layers with the rest of that layer alpha'd out so the skin is visible beneath.

[Chic Aeon]

I so don't agree. About the only thing Cloud Party had in common with SL was that they both had mesh (treated completely differently). The platform was WEB, no download viewer, tech COMPLETELY different and in the colony analogy as far as I know Linden Lab did not support Cloud Party monetarily, nor did they buy them out.

The VERY small population (if the grid got over 16 folks it was a OMG even) was primarily made up of people who had been or still were in SL but MANY of them had also been on other platforms and there were many visitors that were completely new to VR (probably because of the web based viewer), but I don't see it as a colony at all. For one thing, the "rulers across the seas" were completely different.

[Chic Aeon]

No chaos at all on any of my groups (all hidden but the one I run ) and sales are fine. I agree that not  everyone knows but then again a large portion of the population (small inventories, no business investments) won't care anyway. Remember the TOS of August? So many folks really didn't care.

 

[Chic Aeon]

I really like your colony analogy. Like most analogies it doesn't quite fit, but the THEME is there and it makes me FEEL BETTER and that is good. I think it might be more like going to a spaceship colony (a generational one) where the "world" was somewhat in place. And in some sci fi shows folks can even "hop back and forth" between worlds (two viewers most likely necessary ) . Then again, maybe not LOL.

Anyway thumbs up.

[Innula Zenovka]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Have you seen any of the chaos in the inworld groups because most people Inworld have no idea what is going on? The FUD is running rampant and all it would take is a simple post on the main page and on the log in screen to fix. This has been going on for 9 days. It's not whining, it's smart business practice. They have the means to tell everyone about it, but they choose not to. And you are impressed with him...

---

No, I've not seen much chaos, or even discussion of this, at least not in content creation groups like  Builders Brewery, Scripts, Script Academy, nor in the Concierge group (sim owners), nor in any of the  product update groups (shoes, hair and so on) to which I belong. 

Which groups do you have in mind?

---

The Firestorm support group, The Phoenix lounge, Slink, Kittycats addicts, Xcite, and a few others.. Guess you just got lucky.

---

I guess I was lucky, particularly since the one time I saw the topic mentioned in the Firestorm Support Group, the Moderator very firmly shut it down, telling the person who raised it that it was off-topic for the group and take it to the Lounge, instead.

What was the feeling in Slink?   Did many people say they'd been put off buying the new mesh body because they might not be able to take it with them to SL2?    I looked in to pick up a demo of that yesterday and the place seemed pretty busy, despite all this worry about SL2.

I didn't buy the body, btw.   That's because, while I like it, I'm not sure I like it so much more than my regular body that I want to buy it, particularly not until I'm sure I can get appliers for my favourite skins, and also not until I'm sure I've got enough outifits I want to wear with it (most of my outfits at the moment are mesh and system clothes combined).   

It never really occured to me to worry about whether it'll be able to wear it on SL2 in a couple of years' time.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

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Chic Aeon wrote:

I really like your colony analogy. Like most analogies it doesn't quite fit, but the THEME is there and it makes me FEEL BETTER and that is good. I think it might be more like going to a spaceship colony (a generational one) where the "world" was somewhat in place. And in some sci fi shows folks can even "hop back and forth" between worlds (two viewers most likely necessary

) . Then again, maybe not LOL.

Anyway thumbs up.

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"A new life awaits you in the Off-world colonies! A chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!!"