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Chewing on CHUI


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I gave CHUI a brief run today and to say the least I am deeply disappointed.  As far as I see it, they have taken a simple thing and once again complicated it.  If you haven't given CHUI a test drive yet I recommend that you do and make your voice heard.

The main thread on CHUI is here CHUI Beta Viewer released (pops)

You can download the Beta Viewer here  Second Life Beta Viewer/3.5.0 (pops)

I do recommend you watch Torley's video posted above.

My basic observations are these:

Have the Dev's forgot the simplicity of tabbed browsing?

Instead of simple tabs in one window, I now have to open a separate window for any actions.

And removing the chat bar for local chat is extra large fail. (unless there was a way to bring it up I couldn't find).

All we ever asked for was getting Group Chat Fixed!

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As shown in the video i suppose the local chat / nearby chat is replaced by the new communications window. So i guess your search for the local chat tab was clear to fail : S

I assume it is as usual a matter of getting used to it, plus it is still in beta so many things might still advance.
And i agree the more people test it early and give an insight of their thoughts or constructive suggestions - the higher the chances are, those wishes will be heard and taken into account =)

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Just renaming "busy" to "do not disturb" would have been a win by itself.  Being able to set up conferences will be handy.  Other then that it looks like someone spent way too much time playing around with interfaces, and it looks likely to be yet another nest of bugs.

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Codewarrior Congrejo wrote:

As shown in the video i suppose the local chat / nearby chat is replaced by the new communications window. So i guess your search for the local chat tab was clear to fail : S

 

I assume it is as usual a matter of getting used to it, plus it is still in beta so many things might still advance.

And i agree the more people test it early and give an insight of their thoughts or constructive suggestions - the higher the chances are, those wishes will be heard and taken into account =)

Being new to using it I did not want to assume any feature was or wasn't present, hence why I said "if."

 

And speaking in general, my purpose in trying it out was not to find fault with it.

It has some nice features, it does make some tasks easier.

But features should never overshadow the World.

Isn't that the reason we are here?  The World?

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By and large, agreed. I've meddled with CHUI for a while now and I can't get over the huge wasted space and loss of some functionality (which I suppose might come back some day).

Instead of relatively un-obtrusive notification icons in the top right we at most get a movable icon bar. Movable is good. Since that "bar" is really just a very collapsed window, it's opaqua and has window title controls. Bad.

There are some other oddities with it that can be found in the JIRA (which to my surpise is actually... READABLE).

Bottom line is that I like the idea but not the implementation. I suspect it'll take half a year to a year for it to get useable.

Edited to add: That's on 3.5.1 (270826) btw.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

My basic observations are these:

Have the Dev's forgot the simplicity of tabbed browsing?

 

Hey, don't be so quick to blame the developers.  We hack from specs.  Specs come from requirements.  Requirements come from analysts.  Analysts come from the root word: an4l.  

Pfff!

 PS The filter made me write in leet.

 

 

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When did talking become so complicated?

Click avatar....start talking.

 

Adam:  Hey Eve, look at this fantastic apple I found...taste it.

Eve:  That's amazing...It's sweet, crunchy....and....sensuous.

Adam:  Just you wait.  As soon as I genetically modify this perfect fruit, It will be even more amazing.

 

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I mostly like it. It gets rid of the weirdness that was (re-)introduced in Viewer 2 of handling local chat differently from IM sessions, in that IMs could all go in one tabbed window but local chat couldn't.

Also, I remember (long ago) all the complaints when Viewer 1 first introduced a unified window like this, then all the complaints when Viewer 2 changed it. When a change affects such a basic, thoroughly overlearned function, it's bound to seem clumsy at first, cause errors, and generate complaints.

Admittedly, I've complained myself about how it handles the torn-off windows, over on the Viewer thread. There are some other changes, too, that I don't understand yet, and suspect may be design flaws, but I'm still trying to see how much is really wrong and how much is still unfamiliarity.

Incidentally, I pretty much always keep collapsed the left pane (with the tiles and tab labels) of the Conversations Hub window. Maybe there's a good reason to keep it open, but it sure uses less space with it collapsed.

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There are some good features with this, the conversation logs and chat history are a vast improvement.

The mute list is also a nice improvement.

Adding people to conversations and calls is also well implemented.

Nearby chat could do with some attention, I'd rather have that available from the toolbar.

The issue with undocked chat windows and the wasted screen space raised by Tali Rosca and then Qie Niangao in CHIBUG-99 could also do with further attention, it does become a big waste of screen space in that scenario.

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yeah , you understood me wrong here =)
was just saying after watching the vid it was obviously clear you couldn't find it due to it being bound into the new window so was just confirming that there seems to be no independent / separate local chat window anymore.

And true, what makes a good UI is the right mix of flexibility and  many options but packed in a minimalistic way - easy to access, intuitive and not clustering the interface (or in your words 'shadowing' the world) .

And you bet that's why we are here. No matter if for social interaction or building / being creative if that would to be covering half of our screen it starts to defeat the purpose of a better communication with my surroundings - when I actually can't see them anymore. - Then we all could have stayed on Skype or any other messenger if we just want to chat or voice but don't need to see a surrounding world or avatars ; )

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Qie Niangao wrote:

I mostly like it. It gets rid of the weirdness that was (re-)introduced in Viewer 2 of handling local chat differently from IM sessions, in that IMs could all go in one tabbed window but local chat couldn't.

Also, I remember (long ago) all the complaints when Viewer 1 first introduced a unified window like this, then all the complaints when Viewer 2 changed it. When a change affects such a basic, thoroughly overlearned function, it's bound to seem clumsy at first, cause errors, and generate complaints.

Admittedly, I've complained myself about how it handles the torn-off windows, over on the Viewer thread. There are some other changes, too, that I don't understand yet, and suspect may be design flaws, but I'm still trying to see how much is really wrong and how much is still unfamiliarity.

Incidentally, I pretty much always keep collapsed the left pane (with the tiles and tab labels) of the Conversations Hub window. Maybe there's a good reason to keep it open, but it sure uses less space with it collapsed.

You are correct to a degree with the phrase "thoroughly overlearned."  CHUI does involve a learning curve and some of us adapt faster than others.  Of course one key to adaptability is intuitiveness.

It does appear that CHUI makes it more apparent when you have incoming messages even when you have the window completely collapsed.  One of my biggest complaints has always been that the toast chicklets were neither moveable or resizable.  I was forever missing new in-comings.  They really needed to be moveable.  For those of us who read left to right our primary focus will always tend to be to the left side of a page. 

If they truly want CHUI to be flexible it needs to give us the option of being able to switch between the old style tabbed UI or being able to open anything in a new window.

When i have some more time I really need to glance through the JIRA's and add my voice to some things.

 

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Putting my money where my mouth is I have added my thoughts as follow to this CHUI JIRA,  CHUI Observations (pops).

There are a number of specific JIRA's but rather than trying to decipher what each one was, it was for me simpler to jsut add my thoughts to this one.

 

"Because my comments may fall more under the category of general observations I am adding them here.

Having given CHUI a test drive my first overall thought is this: Features are nice, but features should never overshadow the World. After all, the reason we are here is the World.

That said I feel above all we should have the option between tabs for friends and groups in the ONE window rather than having to open a separate window every time we want to see the list. One of the biggest reasons why the Firefox Browser gained popularity so fast was TABBED BROWSING. Every browser since then has had to incorporate that feature, even Internet Explorer. Simply put it made browsing through and keeping track of multiple web pages fast, easy and simple. Having to cover up more of the World when I want to contact a friend or group is counter-intuitive to why we are here. Honestly, when you browse the Internet, do you open a separate window for each page or do you use tabs?

Bring back the Chat Bar for Local Chat. Again, it should be an option which we use. I could be wrong but my prediction is that this will be the number one complaint you are going to hear when this all goes live.

Give us the ability to remove the mini icons in a chat window. They take up too much real estate and quite frankly are too small to be of great value. Viewer 1 style chat.

I am in accord with all of Hitomi's comments so I'm not going to rewrite them."

Thanks

Perrie Juran

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Perrie Juran wrote: "Bring back the Chat Bar for Local Chat. Again, it should be an option which we use. I could be wrong but my prediction is that this will be the number one complaint you are going to hear when this all goes live."

You have my vote on that one. clapping-hands.gif

It is much simpler to use when entering commands for attachments and objects.

 

 

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I think that as a chat/voice client then is pretty sleek. when look at all the options you got to max and minimize it. break in break out windows. the conversation logs shop/sim/club managers gunna love them. same with vertical names options. easy Block list and People Finder. conferencing works good as well. for noisey people then got quick gestures also

so altogether is pretty not bad. for a communication/chat client. is way better than lots of actual chat applications/programs that only do just that

+

like everyone else I got the same moan tho (:

the one thing I miss the most about V1 was the open chatbar fixed in the bottom left corner. when they made V2 they put the chatbar in a floater. which was to big to fit into the space under the scrolling text

I like that V1 way. simple local chatbar under the onscreen scrolling text.  (Firestorm made a mod to that V1 way as well. so is not impossible to do)

the CHUI move even further away from this design

if I close the CHUI can get scroll text onscreen. but if I type then it open up CHUI and the text now in the CHUI window. the old/now V3 local chat window could down arrow it and the scroll text still appear onscreen as I type

don't seem to be able to do this anymore with the CHUI. I could be wrong tho. but I cant know how to do it if I can

+

can know why they didn't in V2/3. bc of the button bar. but is possible to make chatbox that can go on a button bar. can even make it so that is resizable/autosize to fit the space between left side of screen and the first button button. if allow bottom bar to be option align right/center or left

so if was Align option then I align buttonbar right and autosize chatbox will fill all space to left of 1st normal button.

if do this way then chatbox just need the ^^ button to popup to CHUI. and same vv to popdown to bottom bar 

 

 

   

 

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I have been using it. Over all, I Like it. It has added features many have been asking for. I don't find it hard to use at all and just the other day before using CHUI, I was complaining how I had so many chat windows up and can't see what is going on. I have better control now. Doesn't seem clunky to me. The only thing I do not like about it so far is the " Chose Resident " pane. It has 3 tabs "search" "Friends" and "Near Me". There are no indicators telling you who is online in the Friends List. Just an alphabetical list. That could use a fixn . Other than that I am happy with it so far.

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Dilbert Dilweg wrote:

I have been using it. Over all, I Like it. It has added features many have been asking for. I don't find it hard to use at all and just the other day before using CHUI, I was complaining how I had so many chat windows up and can't see what is going on. I have better control now. Doesn't seem clunky to me. The only thing I do not like about it so far is the " Chose Resident " pane. It has 3 tabs "search" "Friends" and "Near Me".
There are no indicators telling you who is online in the Friends List.
Just an alphabetical list. That could use a fixn . Other than that I am happy with it so far.


I'm going to reiterate what I have said before.....if we don't get our observations into th eJIRA it is certain that we wont get the snafu's we are seeing fixed.

Like NO INDICATION of which friends are On Line!  That is not a minor issue!

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Like NO INDICATION of which friends are On Line!  That is not a minor issue!

Except in the people panel. And in the pop-up notices. Where it's always been in V2/3.

Tell you the truth, it was always my friends with V1 interfaces who kept going,  "Oh, I didnt' know you were on!" Because thier contact list was buried behind their chat.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Cerise Sorbet wrote:

The people chooser never showed who was online. If you start an im from the actual friends list, online status is there as always.

right...i may have 'jumped the gun there.'

But you haven't jumped the shark.

 

Sorry. I like that expression and I just wanted to use it somewhere :)

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Cerise Sorbet wrote:

The people chooser never showed who was online. If you start an im from the actual friends list, online status is there as always.

right...i may have 'jumped the gun there.'

But you haven't jumped the shark.

 

Sorry. I like that expression and I just wanted to use it somewhere
:)

Actually Phil you are right.  I haven't jumped the shark!

Friends On Line should be some how highlighted in the resident picker!

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