Community Roundtable May 20, 2024

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

12 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I listened to the whole thing. After some stalling, Oberwulf fessed up to the obvious.... the TOS changes are in response to real world requirements, in particular, Apple policies. Overall, this was a very good meeting. The overall message (this is a quote), "We are on your side".

A lot of the uncertainty about "the rules" is that they want wiggle room.

I can see the Apple thing since they're working on the mobile app that's in Alpha.  Sad many companies have to cater to big tech to be on their good side --- although the way things are now anything relating to children, including the child toons, gets attention. 

When I had my venue in world eons ago I was uncomfortable seeing child toons there and kept close watch since I gotten PMs from another venue owner that they had trouble with 'em.

[Rowan Amore]

14 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

50%+/- of female avatars are potential edge cases so good luck with that.

And from what he said, that's the wiggle room you need.  Unless there are other factors such as IM with obvious sexual ***** where you say or indicate in some way that you're playing an underage character, they more than likely will let it slide.  There is NO way to cover every possible way someone will look.  Hence, the other factors coming into play.

He also reiterated that they DO NOT simply ban without investigating.  If you don't believe that, then you really should just not come back.  

[diamond Marchant]

diamond reported: The overall message (this is a quote), "We are on your side"

6 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

is it allwed allowed to have a laugh?... i would like to ask ; since when?

This is their story and they are sticking to it All we can do is wait and watch.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

Now we need to get SL allowed to be on Twitch - especially for performers playing in both places.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And from what he said, that's the wiggle room you need.  Unless there are other factors such as IM with obvious sexual ***** where you say or indicate in some way that you're playing an underage character, they more than likely will let it slide.  There is NO way to cover every possible way someone will look.  Hence, the other factors coming into play.

He also reiterated that they DO NOT simply ban without investigating.  If you don't believe that, then you really should just not come back.  

What the owner says and the employees actually do is not always the same.

[Arielle Popstar]

32 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I listened to the whole thing. After some stalling, Oberwulf fessed up to the obvious.... the TOS changes are in response to real world requirements, in particular, Apple policies. Overall, this was a very good meeting. The overall message (this is a quote), "We are on your side".

A lot of the uncertainty about "the rules" is that they want wiggle room.

Yes the "wiggle room" I understood to mean for LL, not the residents.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What the owner says and the employees actually do is not always the same.

Well, since you're never going to get the definitive answer about edge cases from LL.and you don't believe what they say, you can make a choice.   Stay and hope for the best as you look now or leave.  We've all said you're avatar looks adult.  You don't believe us either.  Is there some other evidence LL will find because your look, IMO, is not the issue here. 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Well, since you're never going to get the definitive answer about edge cases from LL.and you don't believe what they say, you can make a choice.   Stay and hope for the best as you look now or leave.  We've all said you're avatar looks adult.  You don't believe us either.  Is there some other evidence LL will find because your look, IMO, is not the issue here. 

What makes you think that all my postings are about me? I only have to go Saturday Sale shopping to see many avi's that would have trouble passing for 18+.

[Sadvhi]

42 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

50%+/- of female avatars are potential edge cases so good luck with that.

They made it clear that there is absolutely nothing to worry about as long as a person is not using a child avatar. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Now we need to get SL allowed to be on Twitch - especially for performers playing in both places.

I don't know about that. The unpredictability of content seems to be one thing Twitch isn't a fan of (and I'd be surprised if Google or Apple let that slide, either - I guess we'll see how that works out).

[Dorientje Woller]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Nah, lets ban and remove all goth clothing and change them to pink and pastels so SL looks less depressing. It would improve the mood of many!

Define goth clothing  As goths come in all colors and tastes.

[Rowan Amore]

21 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What makes you think that all my postings are about me? I only have to go Saturday Sale shopping to see many avi's that would have trouble passing for 18+.

That's their problem.  If they aren't doing anything specifically against the rules, why would they be concerned if they're shopping?  An edge case shopping in an adult region getting ARed?  For.what?  Those are exactly the cases where LL says the grey areas will more likely favor the avatar.  They do not want to alienated 1000s of people without some other type of corroborating evidence.

 

[Sadvhi]

They are not worried about "edge cases". That should not be a concern for anyone now, after today's meeting imo

[Flea Yatsenko]

24 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

What makes you think that all my postings are about me? I only have to go Saturday Sale shopping to see many avi's that would have trouble passing for 18+.

This horse is so dead. RL likes younger looking females anyways. That doesn't affect societal norms or anything. What people really have an issue with is people explicitly doing under age role plays and all sorts of nasty stuff. There might not be a very big difference in some avatars that are under age and some that are, physically. But there is a huge difference between AP and a young looking AV avoiding AP and just acting like an adult.

I am glad to see LL make the choices they are making. Much like how boards of directors are supposed to do what's best for share holders, LL should be doing what's best for businesses in SL. At the end of the day the content creators and businesses in SL are what make SL awesome and keeping those wheels turning well is the most important thing to keep SL alive.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

This horse is so dead. RL likes younger looking females anyways. That doesn't affect societal norms or anything. What people really have an issue with is people explicitly doing under age role plays and all sorts of nasty stuff. There might not be a very big difference in some avatars that are under age and some that are, physically. But there is a huge difference between AP and a young looking AV avoiding AP and just acting like an adult.

I am glad to see LL make the choices they are making. Much like how boards of directors are supposed to do what's best for share holders, LL should be doing what's best for businesses in SL. At the end of the day the content creators and businesses in SL are what make SL awesome and keeping those wheels turning well is the most important thing to keep SL alive.

It's actually people buying content that gives stores and creators value. LL should be doing what is best for the resident consumer.

[Madi Melodious]

1 hour ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Was rolling my eyes at that too.

I rolled my eyes so hard at that one they fell out of my head.  I had to chase them down across the sim.  I'm surprised the lindens even bothered with that comment. 

[Madi Melodious]

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

I listened to the whole thing. After some stalling, Oberwulf fessed up to the obvious.... the TOS changes are in response to real world requirements, in particular, Apple policies. Overall, this was a very good meeting. The overall message (this is a quote), "We are on your side".

A lot of the uncertainty about "the rules" is that they want wiggle room.

This is what I wanted to hear.  We knew it but it was nice to hear them fess up to it.  It would have been even better if they had lead with that.  

"We have to put out new rules or they are going to shut us down."   How hard would that have been?  

Something I found amusing was after I tossed out "is the lab hiring" line one of the Governance Lindens IM'ed  me a link to the careers page.  

[Emilly Littlepaws]

how everything is always sexuallized here   . for example i am rl 40+ and in sl also 40+ but i rarely go on adult sims or want pixel sex 90 % i am on moderate sims or generall sims and just 10 % at adult sims of my time .  like madpea sim  im like her games and hunts or i meet with friends just to talk or i use secondlife to learn .  where i was new in sl i didn't know any english . i only learned my english in sl . in the almost 15 years i've been here . right now i'm trying to learn to script and do mesh and having fun with it .         I have more fun with that . all with the boring pixel sex  i like to be creative  and attend a lot of courses in sl to learn new things get new skills         yes i also have an adult sexual side but rarely because it bores me quickly in sl

[Jaylinbridges]

Best advice for the child avatars not being able to attend Adult region concerts was from Grumpity: "go as a stick figure".   Stick figure sex must not be sticky.enough.

Edited May 20 by Jaylinbridges

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Sounds like he's saying be smart and don't break the TOS. The lindens keep bringing up Paypal and Apple as external pressures that are part of the decision to have changed it. At some point, reality has to be taken into an account if SL is going to carry on. 

be smart my a$$, unstead of making clear rules, you have to decide, and if you get banned, I guess you just weren’t smart enough.

pass the buck is the name of LL’s game

[Sadvhi]

4 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Best advice for the children not being able to attend Adult region concerts was from Grumpity: "go as a stick figure".   Stick figure sex must not be sticky.enough.

I literally just faved this avatar the other day 🤣

[Madi Melodious]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Specify and have Governance do actual warnings instead of outright bans!

They are going to have to do warnings unless they just want to lose a lot of business.  I'm still getting IM's in world from avatars that don't know the new rules.    They need to get these modesty panels down or some better guidance.  I don't like the idea of my account depending on a creator that thinks they understand the new TOS.  

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

What part of "we are never going to tell you specifics" are you not getting?  This level of paranoia with you has got to stop.  If you think you are an 'edge" case then adult up your avatar enough so you are not.

They are not going to get into specifics because 1. Changes can happen. 2. Things they never thought of could happen. 3. That's the way the world works.

The level of smartness equals common sense. It's starts at 1.

thats the thing, you never know what is enough to adult up to. 

Maybe LL just needs to say, if you aren’t a kid, you are an adult, and cut out all this crap about 16 and 17 year olds “edge cases”

Ll made things far worse by lumping teenage looking avis in with children.

sex with a 6 yr old is pure evil, sex with a 16 year old is poor judgement

 

Edited May 20 by BilliJo Aldrin
left a word out

[Qie Niangao]

Why isn't there a proper video of this, preferably on the official Second Life YouTube channel? All I can find is that "Alchemelic" stream with no closed captions nor transcript. Was that the only livestream?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

43 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That's their problem.  If they aren't doing anything specifically against the rules, why would they be concerned if they're shopping?  An edge case shopping in an adult region getting ARed?  For.what?  Those are exactly the cases where LL says the grey areas will more likely favor the avatar.  They do not want to alienated 1000s of people without some other type of corroborating evidence.

 

LOL, “ more likely favor the avatar”, does anyone want to risk their entire second life on “more likely”

let LL  come out and say that without definate proof of under age sex play, edge cases are safe