Let's hear from the adult region owners on how the new TOS change will affect your land

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

I see we're going to play this game. Going off your profile pic, I'm going to assume you play a pretty white woman. Why don't you put on an avatar of a fat black man? Why not play an avatar in a wheelchair? Why not be a car? Probably because you don't want to.

I guess it is no different for you not having the right to modify LL's policy of No-child Adult land as it your right to set no modify on content. 

Quote

Just like every other time this is asked, the answer is clear. People put no mod on things because they don't want people to modify them. It's that simple. You can cry and complain all you want, but it's not your work, nor is it your right. 

 

 

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I guess it is no different for you not having the right to modify LL's policy of No-child Adult land as it your right to set no modify on content. 

 

Irrelevant. Thanks for coming though.

[Chery Amore]

18 minutes ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

I see we're going to play this game. Going off your profile pic, I'm going to assume you play a pretty white woman. Why don't you put on an avatar of a fat black man? Why not play an avatar in a wheelchair? Why not be a car? Probably because you don't want to.

Let's keep in mind that this is also in the ToS. "Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame users or groups are similarly prohibited." (Linden Lab's Community Standards, as linked in the ToS, https://lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards). Are the people who play child avatars (for whatever reason they do) being marginalized when they are forced to surrender their identity? Would you surrender your identity?

It isn't that hard to have a reset folder with your character. You can go pick up demo's completely invisible with just an alpha layer on. You don't even have to "see" yourself in another way by doing that. It's a good trick too to reduce lag and just move around invisible if you don't want to be some fantasy creature or robot.. or other sort of puppet.  There is no excuse to not be able to shop at that one store. 

I do think however some stores will have to rethink what land they chose to sell on in the future. It might be best for more to move to moderate land if it' is feasible to keep their customer base happy. You might want to contact that store and put in a suggestion. Suggestions are often heard depending on how they are worded.

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

Irrelevant. Thanks for coming though.

Perfectly relevant and though I oppose the child ban on Adult land, the double standard some employ doesn't sit well and looks rather hypocritical.

[Love Zhaoying]

35 minutes ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

Are the people who play child avatars (for whatever reason they do) being marginalized when they are forced to surrender their identity? Would you surrender your identity?

Are you the same person that brought up this same exact argument, with the same wording, previously? 

[Love Zhaoying]

Yay! Drama and attention-seeking behavior. We've been talking about this for quite awhile and "boom!" Someone pops up as if from nowhere, repeating the same things as before.

NEXT!

[Rowan Amore]

35 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I am not the person to ask that of.  I have alts of all ages, genders, and species. A couple look young enough that I will not be taking them to adult land (my choice not to change them)  My identity is my real life self. I am also not insulting you in any way, like it appears you are trying to do with me. 

You said you lost access to adult land. I said only because you choose to. 

You have not lost access to adult regions.

They COULD restrict adult avatars from accessing General land.  If they did and I wanted to go to some place on General, I'd make a child avatar.  Same with places.that don't allow non-human.  

Yes, I do see myself in my avatar but I'm also NOT my avatar.  I have a white female alt.  I'm no less me when I log her in.  

Edited May 23 by Rowan Amore

[Quistess Alpha]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yay! Drama and attention-seeking behavior. We've been talking about this for quite awhile and "boom!" Someone pops up as if from nowhere, repeating the same things as before.

So childishly, It's almost like they're a child!

Edited May 23 by Quistess Alpha

[Stephanie Misfit]

5 hours ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

I see we're going to play this game. Going off your profile pic, I'm going to assume you play a pretty white woman. Why don't you put on an avatar of a fat black man? Why not play an avatar in a wheelchair? Why not be a car? Probably because you don't want to.

Let's keep in mind that this is also in the ToS. "Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame users or groups are similarly prohibited." (Linden Lab's Community Standards, as linked in the ToS, https://lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards). Are the people who play child avatars (for whatever reason they do) being marginalized when they are forced to surrender their identity? Would you surrender your identity?

Stop comparing child avatars to marginalised groups. Child avatars are full grown adults roleplaying as kids, they are not an oppressed group.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 hours ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

Because I play a child avatar and that is not prohibited. I don't go to BDSM clubs. I don't hang around adult content. But a great many things are on Adult land for some reason, and that's not closed to me.

First, I understand and accept that your identity is SL is tied very closely to your child avatar. My SL identity (which is frankly nothing very special -- I'm mostly a younger, blonder version of RL me) is also very important to me. So, I DO understand why simply switching to an adult avatar to go to certain places seems onerous or unpleasant.

You say (and I don't doubt you) that you don't do BDSM clubs or hang around adult content. I take it that this also means that you understand why it is inappropriate and perhaps even dangerous to have child avatars around such content.

But Adult regions are literally defined by the fact that that is precisely what they do host, along with open, public sexuality and extreme violence. These things (and the fact that you can advertise these things there) are the only thing that differentiates "Adult" from "Moderate."

So, if the Adult rated places you want to go to don't feature these things -- or presumably you wouldn't want to go there -- then the real question is . . . why are they rated Adult?

It seems to me that your complaints should be directed not against LL, who is restricting your access when representing as a child to places you don't want to visit anyway, but rather at the landowners who are unnecessarily and inappropriately rating their regions Adult, and so preventing child avatars from visiting.

Edited May 23 by Scylla Rhiadra
Punctuation

[Alwin Alcott]

9 hours ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

 Why don't you put on an avatar of a fat black man? Why not play an avatar in a wheelchair? Why not be a car? Probably because you don't want to.

indeed, because some of us don't want to, and don't identify with those.
But within my angry white man identification, i dó play with sizes, i have some underaged alts.
 

[Vivienne Schell]

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It seems to me that your complaints should be directed not against LL, who is restricting your access when representing as a child to places you don't want to visit anyway, but rather at the landowners who are unnecessarily and inappropriately rating their regions Adult, and so preventing child avatars from visiting.

I collected enough experience with "child avatars" pestering me for ejecting and banning them from my land. Don´t give these guys ideas, please.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

First, I understand and accept that your identity is SL is tied very closely to your child avatar. My SL identity (which is frankly nothing very special -- I'm mostly a younger, blonder version of RL me) is also very important to me. So, I DO understand why simply switching to an adult avatar to go to certain places seems onerous or unpleasant.

You say (and I don't doubt you) that you don't do BDSM clubs or hang around adult content. I take it that this also means that you understand why it is inappropriate and perhaps even dangerous to have child avatars around such content.

But Adult regions are literally defined by the fact that that is precisely what they do host, along with open, public sexuality and extreme violence. These things (and the fact that you can advertise these things there) are the only thing that differentiates "Adult" from "Moderate."

So, if the Adult rated places you want to go to don't feature these things -- or presumably you wouldn't want to go there -- then the real question is . . . why are they rated Adult?

It seems to me that your complaints should be directed not against LL, who is restricting your access when representing as a child to places you don't want to visit anyway, but rather at the landowners who are unnecessarily and inappropriately rating their regions Adult, and so preventing child avatars from visiting.

Maybe they rated their place adult because they DON’T want child avatars visiting … just a thought 😂

[BilliJo Aldrin]

16 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

I collected enough experience with "child avatars" pestering me for ejecting and banning them from my land. Don´t give these guys ideas, please.

its three steps, eject, ban, block 😂

[Arielle Popstar]

27 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

I collected enough experience with "child avatars" pestering me for ejecting and banning them from my land. Don´t give these guys ideas, please.

Some of the best or most entertaining experiences I've had in SL were with random visitors to my land. Other then the one guy who wanted me to marry him, I never saw a need eject any of them. Mostly they ran away. Guess I have that effect on some when they start talking to me

[Scylla Rhiadra]

8 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

But within my angry white man identification, i dó play with sizes, i have some underaged alts.

lol

Angry white boy, then?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Maybe they rated their place adult because they DON’T want child avatars visiting … just a thought 😂

That might well be the case. And that is entirely their right.

I am merely pointing out the logic of this. If one accepts (as I think most of us do, including most of those representing as children who've posted here) that child avatars don't belong in places that feature open and public sexuality or extreme violence, then LL's restriction upon child avatars from such places makes sense, and shouldn't be subject to complaints.

If, however, a region that has been designated as Adult doesn't contain this type of content/behaviour, but is Adult anyway, the "blame," or at least the responsibility for that choice doesn't lie with LL, but with the landowner (who presumably has their own reasons for applying the rating).

Crapping on LL for what is an entirely reasonable and logical restriction is illogical. And, frankly, blaming landowners who choose to designate their regions as Adult even when the ToS wouldn't demand it of them is also . . . pointless.

[Love Zhaoying]

I think this thread (among others) included some comments on possible "proactive" moderation - whether that means "automated message scanning", etc.

One of my friends who runs Minecraft servers said that Microsoft scans ALL Minecraft chat for curse words, and automatically bans any player that enters forbidden words into chat.   (And that's without AI..)

Suddenly to me, proactive moderation sounds a lot less "maybe".

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

then LL's restriction upon child avatars from such places makes sense, and shouldn't be subject to complaints.

I think, there are going to be complaints no matter what we think.  😞

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 hours ago, Vivienne Schell said:

I collected enough experience with "child avatars" pestering me for ejecting and banning them from my land. Don´t give these guys ideas, please.

If your Adult region permits open and public sexuality or extreme violence, then your answer to such questions is an easy one.

If you choose to give your place an Adult rating when it is not, in fact, required by the ToS, then that's a choice you've made, and the responsibility for the consequences are your own.

Fortunately, you have tools that will help you manage such consequences, and complaints.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think, there are going to be complaints no matter what we think.  😞

 

Of course! I said . . . "shouldn't," not "wouldn't."

Complaints are part of the cost of engaging with the public, unfortunately.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think, there are going to be complaints no matter what we think.  😞

 

Of course! I said . . . "shouldn't," not "wouldn't."

Complaints are part of the cost of engaging with the public, unfortunately.

Yeah, "should" is one of those "wiggly words" (like telling people how to feel).

I agree that people "would" not be "justified" in complaining about most of the things you posted; whether they feel like complaining or not is their business.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Yeah, "should" is one of those "wiggly words" (like telling people how to feel).

I agree that people "would" not be "justified" in complaining about most of the things you posted; whether they feel like complaining or not is their business.

 

Yes and no.

If a region does permit the kind of content and activities that fall under an Adult rating according to the ToS and CS, then a landowner doesn't really have much choice themselves: they must designate it as Adult or risk disciplinary action, loss of land and investment, etc.

Complaining that a landowner refuses to break the ToS and run the risk of such actions merely because someone else wants to visit using a child avatar is deeply unreasonable, a little akin to arguing with a tree that you have right of way and it should move.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yes and no.

If a region does permit the kind of content and activities that fall under an Adult rating according to the ToS and CS, then a landowner doesn't really have much choice themselves: they must designate it as Adult or risk disciplinary action, loss of land and investment, etc.

Complaining that a landowner refuses to break the ToS and run the risk of such actions merely because someone else wants to visit using a child avatar is deeply unreasonable, a little akin to arguing with a tree that you have right of way and it should move.

Right. Sorry if I misinterpreted your usage of "should" as, "they should not complain". 🙂

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

That might well be the case. And that is entirely their right.

I am merely pointing out the logic of this. If one accepts (as I think most of us do, including most of those representing as children who've posted here) that child avatars don't belong in places that feature open and public sexuality or extreme violence, then LL's restriction upon child avatars from such places makes sense, and shouldn't be subject to complaints.

If, however, a region that has been designated as Adult doesn't contain this type of content/behaviour, but is Adult anyway, the "blame," or at least the responsibility for that choice doesn't lie with LL, but with the landowner (who presumably has their own reasons for applying the rating).

Crapping on LL for what is an entirely reasonable and logical restriction is illogical. And, frankly, blaming landowners who choose to designate their regions as Adult even when the ToS wouldn't demand it of them is also . . . pointless.

My main parcel is on Zindra, and it is xxx, but i also have parcel on a moderate sim. I bought it to rezz my stone circle, it has a couple of ponds, lots of plants and trees. Anything with poses i rezzed are general versions of the same thing that has adult animations.

There is no secret skybox for the naughty stuff, the location would be perfectly safe for a child to visit.

But if one showed up, i’d probably still kick them out.

I would be suspicious of any child avatar that tried to start a conversation with me.

For starters i’m not interested in their rp, and I’d wonder if they had darker motives.

I’m sure many many people feel the same way, all child avis are under a cloud of suspicion, and honestly I want nothing to do with them.

And in my own parcel, I can guarantee that

Edited May 23 by BilliJo Aldrin
fixed a word