Cristiano Midnight Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I have noticed it is increasingly common for merchants to offer users a rebate of a portion of the price of an item if they leave a marketplace review. They never specifically caveat it as saying it has to be a positive review, but this form of paying for reviews still seems a bit shady. Thoughts? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) Agreed; there are some high-profile makers that have been doing that for many years. One commonly announces refunds in their group for the first reviewers on a new launch. For that particular one there's no way to even have time to unpack the purchase before leaving a review to get in fast enough to 'win'. Edited May 15 by Rick Nightingale 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I don't think it's wrong. These rebates tend to be offered in the store group, so it's basically a bonus for being a group member. It helps the merchant boost their ratings and visibility on MP. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Just now, Persephone Emerald said: It helps the merchant boost their ratings and visibility on MP. I guess it depends how it's done. The one I mentioned certainly will prompt reviews that are meaningless. The stuff is usually of good quality (not perfect, but up there with the best) but still, leaving a review before even trying on the product I think is out of order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Jaxxon Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 @Persephone Emerald Yes, but are the reviews truthful? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 6 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: I don't think it's wrong. These rebates tend to be offered in the store group, so it's basically a bonus for being a group member. It helps the merchant boost their ratings and visibility on MP. I have seen it directly on marketplace listings and also on Flickr, not just in groups. Something about the practice just seems wrong to me - that they are essentially buying reviews and artificially inflating their ratings. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 3 minutes ago, Kylie Jaxxon said: @Persephone Emerald Yes, but are the reviews truthful? Mine would be. Only the reviewer knows if they're being truthful - whether they give a good or a bad review. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Rewarding customer loyalty for past purchases with a rebate is good customer service. Demanding a review in order to get that reward sucks IMO. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: I have seen it directly on marketplace listings and also on Flickr, not just in groups. Something about the practice just seems wrong to me - that they are essentially buying reviews and artificially inflating their ratings. Yeah that makes sense. I also think it's good to reward buyers for spend their time helping both a merchant and future buyers. So, have mixed feelings about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Yatsenko Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Yes it's shady, but I think it's not technically wrong if you don't ask for a positive review. It would be interesting to see if someone gets a rebate even if they leave a 1 star review and say the product is terrible, though. I suspect most won't and the merchant would instead flag the review for removal. There are lots of things on SLMP that can earn you L$ that don't involve making quality custom content for people to enjoy. It's really become a thing to push people who just want to make stuff and post it on SLMP to the back of the line. That said reviews don't really seem to factor into search results by relevancy, and I think products that get reviews for incentives are part of the reason why. That said, when you search by "Rating: High to Low" SLMP's weighted algorithm seems to prefer more ratings over the rating amount. i.e. when searching for "shirt" there's one product with 4 stars and 502 reviews, 4.5 for 302 reviews, and 5 stars for 287. You have to weight ratings, otherwise a product with one 5 star review ends up ranked higher than a 4.5 star product with 1,000 reviews. But LL's implementation really depends heavily on the amount of reviews a product has, more so than most weighted algorithms do. I wouldn't do it. It's so easy to find a creator and get to their store when you see something in world you like. That's the 100% best way of advertising. And it takes zero effort from a creator. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) I would guess that even with time to try a product and no stipulation that it must be a positive review, there's extra influence on the purchaser to make it positive. If only because of the warm and fuzzy feeling that the maker is giving one something and not wanting to rock the boat. It's also a bit unfair on makers who perhaps don't have enough sales to justify giving product discounts like that. I have a product I've sold for years in several iterations; I've sold many thousands. I know for a fact that most people are very happy with it (and a lot have messged me to say so, or ask for help and tell me they like it) yet I have very few reviews on it. I've had almost as many bad ones from people who can't read the simplest of instructions and immediately jump on review to say "it's rubbish and doesn't work" rather than open the NC or ask for help (as instructed in the advert). It's difficult getting reviews, but that's the way it is. Edited May 15 by Rick Nightingale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 6 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said: I guess it depends how it's done. The one I mentioned certainly will prompt reviews that are meaningless. The stuff is usually of good quality (not perfect, but up there with the best) but still, leaving a review before even trying on the product I think is out of order. You have to buy the product in order to review it. In had a friend create a simple prim objects and put it on MP for cheap. He was new in SL, so I bought it and gave it a good but fair review. I don't think this is any worse than having friends vote for you in club contests (a practice that used to be very common). 1 minute ago, Cristiano Midnight said: I have seen it directly on marketplace listings and also on Flickr, not just in groups. Something about the practice just seems wrong to me - that they are essentially buying reviews and artificially inflating their ratings. Offering a rebate on the ad seems wrong to me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 Just now, Persephone Emerald said: Offering a rebate on the ad seems wrong to me too. When they offer it in their group, is it really any different? It is an ad, they want you to buy their product. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: You have to buy the product in order to review it. Yes, but in this case the refund is only given to the first ten people to leave a review; those are typically left within less than a minute of the group announcement. No way people have even unpacked it before leaving that 5* review. I hate those contests where it's just a pure popularity contest, but them I'm autistic so am at a clear disadvantage there. There's one I do every year with multiple categories; one is just how many votes you get. One particular person, from the start to end of the contest, practically lives there and brings in everyone they can find to vote for their entry. They almost always win that category. Such is life, lol. I guess it makes them happy. Edited May 15 by Rick Nightingale 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Saw one mesh body maker post a beta version on MP, and the first reviewers got the final product for free. She used the reviews to fix possible bugs/faults/issues before the final release. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: I have noticed it is increasingly common for merchants to offer users a rebate of a portion of the price of an item if they leave a marketplace review. They never specifically caveat it as saying it has to be a positive review, but this form of paying for reviews still seems a bit shady. Thoughts? Of course it's shady. In general, if customers are happy with the product, they won't leave a review. Customers only leave reviews if they are truly super-happy, or when they are angry or feel ripped off. This behaviour can be seen on Yelp and other review sites where they too are always polarized... reviews like "This is a god send!" vs "This is the worst service ever!" cancel each other out. Also, people 'thumbs up', 'like' and rate things based on a number of factors which may not have anything to do with a product or posting (including social media). They'll do it because they are friends, fans, etc. I would think: If you have to bribe your customers to leave a favourable review, and bribe them to visit your world - then the question would be does the product/world stand on it's own, or are they there because they got paid to? There seems to be a culture of 'skirting the rules' aka 'gaming the system', my favourite also being the "Where can I buy?", "Who's selling good clothing?", and "Which stores are having sales today" to skirt the rules to advertise stores too. Also, too - as some will reward for a good review, others punish less-than-5-star reviews - reviews are not helpful anymore - unless they are accompanied with 'why?'. LL must be exhausted trying to keep up with this stuff, lol. Edited May 15 by Codex Alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 There is no such thing as unbiased review when the customer receives something money or otherwise in exchange for the review. Regardless of if the merchant would still give the user money for a negative review, the reviewer is likely to choose to review positively, so that the merchant will continue to offer such rewards in the future. The customer is not stupid. They know that if the merchant keeps paying for reviews and the customer keeps giving negative reviews eventually the merchant will stop offering the payment. In this way, yes, I consider it more than a little bit shady. I am pretty sure there are laws in place that require such information to be disclosed too? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Yatsenko Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 3 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: There is no such thing as unbiased review when the customer receives something money or otherwise in exchange for the review. Regardless of if the merchant would still give the user money for a negative review, the reviewer is likely to choose to review positively, so that the merchant will continue to offer such rewards in the future. The customer is not stupid. They know that if the merchant keeps paying for reviews and the customer keeps giving negative reviews eventually the merchant will stop offering the payment. In this way, yes, I consider it more than a little bit shady. I am pretty sure there are laws in place that require such information to be disclosed too? If the product sucks, and you don't like it, you can always write a positive review and get a partial refund! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Mote Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) If they're offering a rebate, then the review is effectively bought and paid for. Gifting promotional items for this happens, too. Shady reviews are rampant on any platform/marketplace, though, and Second Life has always had caveat emptor as its middle name. Edited May 15 by Ineffable Mote 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 25 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: Rewarding customer loyalty for past purchases with a rebate is good customer service. Demanding a review in order to get that reward sucks IMO. there;s hardly a need to get it on promotional reviews. Paying for it is a wrong trigger. As a certain decor and house seller inworld does is simply a tiered % rebate based on your purchases... without reviews for free advertisement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristiano Midnight Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 What prompted me to think about this is seeing the maker of a popular genital add on offer a significant (50%) rebate for reviews for a short period of time in their Discord server, with very specific rules regarding the rebates. Again, nothing saying it had to be positive, but come on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Nightingale Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Cristiano Midnight said: What prompted me to think about this... I saw that too. It seems a nice way to offer a discount to existing users of the previous version, but is still sort of shady IMO. the T&C says this though: Quote Reviews should not be written for pay, or for other rewards or compensation unless both positive and negative reviews are rewarded. So, providing sellers really do pay for any review, they are doing nothing wrong in SL's view. (Well, it makes more money... of course it's OK) I still think it's on the shady side however it's done, because as stated above by more than me, I think that once a gain is involved, there's going to be a skew towards positive. Edited May 15 by Rick Nightingale 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 One 5 Star review costs a merchant 10% commission to LL and a bunch of alts. Alt buys the product, you get 90% of the money back as purchase income and the alt can write a review. There is nothing more to it. Once I bought a boat. A few hours later the merchant contacted me and gave me even a bigger boat than I bought for free. Man, that guy had great reviews on the marketplace. The whole rating system is easily to influence/game and therefor quite useless. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 The one creator I deal with that states whether the review is good or bad, she will give the reviewer a choice out of her store. Seems legit to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 The one that I know that does it, does it only with customers that have the same product, but for a different body. Plus it only goes on for two weeks after the release of the version of the product.. They want only honest reviews for the feed back from their customers.. I guess it helps with what may need to be updated or what is working well.. things like that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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