So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Extrude Ragu]

Aren't most people in SL 'fictosexual'

Like, try as they might people may claim they are attracted to personality only, there are very few who want to ERP with this:-

 

Actually... Okay, maybe there are a few

Weirdos

[Starberry Passion]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Round, rectangular or inverted triangle are not favorite body types for women in RL either. Sorry, but most people prefer hourglass or pear-shaped.

Not true, it depends on your location or where you are, but it is true for second life.

If it was true then another woman, who has this body type, would be considered pretty, beautiful, popular which is Taylor Swift. She has a rectangle body.

[Roxy Couturier]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

does it encourage them to go to rl, or does it gjve them a safe (safe for rl kids) outlet for their urges?

I don't care. Other peoples children are not my responsibility.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said:

Most people see her and will say "Women have curves, you're a child, there are no curves on you. *bans and reports* I use to work at a club named the TPP and I've had to reluctantly ban people that look like this and apologize to them.

I've been an admin too, and I NEVER had to ban an adult female avatar that looked adult, from anywhere for not being 7 ft tall or having small boobs or a flat ass, NEVER.

I HAVVE had to ban a number of 4 ft tall badly drawn Japanese comic based, half naked half dressed in fetish gear, avatars that were blatant ToS violation Abuse Report Clickbait.

 

Frankly all these pictures you're spamming us with of flat chested women and teenagers, don't help your "case", they just make you look like you are defending the very thing the new ToS is designed to stop.

Walking ToS violations going to Adult venues.

 

I'll make it simple for you, if there is ANY doubt about the "age" of an SL avatar, you do NOT bother with WORTHLESS place pic disclaimers, you do NOT judge just on height, but on proportions, and the type of clothing, and the type of AO, and the type of language used, and on general behaviour.

If after that you are still in doubt if it's child-like, you AR it and let Governance sort it out.

Additionally if you are a parcel admin, you might ask them to leave or change, and if they refuse to do either, then you punt them.

 

 

 

[Leslie Trihey]

30 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

inb4 people start demanding each other to add wrinkles to their avatars and beauty policing each other.

You can either have the wrinkles:

OR may I interest you in our new state of the art modesty layer?

[AmeliaJ08]

10 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

Whenever someone says "I can spot *insert type of person here* a mile away" it usually ends in disaster. Women getting assaulted in real life over trans panic for example.

We've even had some trans panic in this very thread.

[Leslie Trihey]

1 minute ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

We've even had some trans panic in this very thread.

Yeah, this thread has convinced me that this whole thing is not going to end well.

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

Not true, it depends on your location or where you are, but it is true for second life.

Yes, the barely legal teen places love that look.  

You really need to stop equating RL bodies to SL.  People know Taylor Swift is over 18.   She can wear childish clothing and a pacifier if she wants.  

It's the ambiguity of certain looks that causes the problem.

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Frankly all these pictures you're spamming us with of flat chested women and teenagers, don't help your "case", they just make you look like you are defending the very thing the new ToS is designed to stop.

^^^THIS

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

You can either have the wrinkles:

OR may I interest you in our new state of the art modesty layer?

Maybe stop with the strawman tactics, ok?

[Starberry Passion]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I've been an admin too, and I NEVER had to ban an adult female avatar that looked adult, from anywhere for not being 7 ft tall or having small boobs or a flat ass, NEVER.

I HAVVE had to ban a number of 4 ft tall badly drawn Japanese comic based, half naked half dressed in fetish gear, avatars that were blatant ToS violation Abuse Report Clickbait.

 

Frankly all these pictures you're spamming us with of flat chested women and teenagers, don't help your "case", they just make you look like you are defending the very thing the new ToS is designed to stop.

Walking ToS violations going to Adult venues.

 

I'll make it simple for you, if there is ANY doubt about the "age" of an SL avatar, you do NOT bother with WORTHLESS place pic disclaimers, you do NOT judge just on height, but on proportions, and the type of clothing, and the type of AO, and the type of language used, and on general behaviour.

If after that you are still in doubt if it's child-like, you AR it and let Governance sort it out.

Additionally if you are a parcel admin, you might ask them to leave or change, and if they refuse to do either, then you punt them.

 

 

 

I have not posted any teens. And you're telling me no one has ever been banned from a sim for being 5'6" and skinny? with flat breasts?

Because there are several accounts of that happening.

[Flea Yatsenko]

19 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

The reason it stands up in court is because it's logical. The fact that I see people upset over fictional material, especially ones that are their own and if they feel affected by it, they proved to me to be fictosexual.

You can be creeped out all you like, but it's the truth of the matter, there have been several fictosexual people popping up.

I really miss the days when people didn't think the internet was RL and they didn't post all their RL stuff online with their full names. Kind of off topic but this fictosexual thing really reminds me how some people think everything on the internet is real life and some think it's a totally different thing.

[Leslie Trihey]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Maybe stop with the strawman tactics, ok?

Nah, with the gaslighting and half hidden accusations that have been going on in this thread I think I've earned a little strawman treat. 🤪

[Starberry Passion]

I will not stop fighting for any type of woman to be able to express themselves as women.

You can get upset and mad, but all women should be able to be an adult without someone else's permission.

[Starberry Passion]

15 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I've been an admin too, and I NEVER had to ban an adult female avatar that looked adult, from anywhere for not being 7 ft tall or having small boobs or a flat ass, NEVER.

I HAVVE had to ban a number of 4 ft tall badly drawn Japanese comic based, half naked half dressed in fetish gear, avatars that were blatant ToS violation Abuse Report Clickbait.

 

Frankly all these pictures you're spamming us with of flat chested women and teenagers, don't help your "case", they just make you look like you are defending the very thing the new ToS is designed to stop.

Walking ToS violations going to Adult venues.

 

I'll make it simple for you, if there is ANY doubt about the "age" of an SL avatar, you do NOT bother with WORTHLESS place pic disclaimers, you do NOT judge just on height, but on proportions, and the type of clothing, and the type of AO, and the type of language used, and on general behaviour.

If after that you are still in doubt if it's child-like, you AR it and let Governance sort it out.

Additionally if you are a parcel admin, you might ask them to leave or change, and if they refuse to do either, then you punt them.

 

 

 

also, it wasn't my decision to ban them, it was the admin, I was a bouncer, you're assuming.

[Drayke Newall]

41 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

btw would never be able to guess he is 58.

Edited May 5 by Drayke Newall
oops 58 not 54

[Persephone Emerald]

22 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

I don't care. Other peoples children are not my responsibility.

That's some top-notch cold trolling.

[Starberry Passion]

These women are women

https://gyazo.com/1469bb7b6197f72dc8af7532053c3762

same way as these women are women

same way these women are women

[Vanity Fair]

11 hours ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Well I feel bad for those that have Zooby. Now they can't use Zooby at all which also affects those creators that created clothes and accessories for the body. That's a shame.

Is it just the Zooby child avatars that are gone, or has Zooby shut down completely? 

[Innula Zenovka]

4 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

I will not stop fighting for any type of woman to be able to express themselves as women.

You can get upset and mad, but all women should be able to be an adult without someone else's permission.

Certainly, but I think the question of whether the avatar she creates in SL is allowed to be in certain areas is a rather different question.

First, it's up to the region/parcel owner who they allow into their region/club/parcel/whatever, and if they decide they want to exclude her avatar because of the way the avatar looks, that's their decision.

Second, it's up to LL's Governance team to deal with any abuse reports as they see fit.   They say in the FAQ that 

Quote

Depending upon the nature and severity of the violation, Governance has a suspension tree that is utilized to make attempts to educate the Resident first.

so presumably, if there's any doubt about whether or not the avatar represents a child but they think it likely does, they'll advise the resident first before imposing any particular sanctions.    They'll also, they say, consider the circumstances surrounding the AR -- what conversations the avatar was having, and with whom, and I'd imagine they'd look at the avatar's profile and groups too.

If the woman keeps on finding her avatars get booted from adult venues, and particularly if she keeps on finding herself the subject of successful ARs, she'd be well-advised to choose a different avatar with which to visit those areas rather than keep trying to find out what the boundaries are with particular edge cases.

[Persephone Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

/ me starts to imagine Muppet porn.

🤢

[Zalificent Corvinus]

Just now, Starberry Passion said:

I have not posted any teens. And you're telling me no one has ever been banned from a sim for being 5'6" and skinny? with flat breasts?

Because there are several accounts of that happening.

One of the places I've held admin powers is a Lesbian BDSM Club, and we've never banned ANYBODY for being 5ft 6 inches tall, MY OWN usual avatar is 5 ft 7 in flat feet, and 6ft 1 inch in 6 inch stilettos.

We've NEVER banned anyone for having small boobs either.

One of the promo pics I took for the clubs advertising was of one of the flatter chested managers she'd be a b cup maybe, possibly a B-.

 

So NO, all the BS I keep hearing about "they are banning anyone who isnt a 7 ft kupra karen oh woe for the cute 5'4 adult women who just HAPPEN to look like 12 year olds" doesn't impress me.

 

Talking of "heard", there was another thread quite recently where some walking ToS violation claimed that she and her little friends made up 20% of SL's population.

 

So I pointed out what the last reported figures for unique logins per month were from LL, and then pointed out just how many that would be if what she "heard" was even remotely accurate.

 

About 160,000 child avatars still active and logging into SL every month.

There is NO sign of this vastarmy of kids in SL, 160k ? not even close.

 

The walking ToS violation then claimed it was at least double digits, so I pointed out that would still be 80,000, that's more kid avatars than Premium subscriber, enough to fill Belli twice over and still have several thousand homeless kids.

 

Reality isn't 20%, or 10%, I'd be surprised if it was as high as ONE %.

 

10 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

Because there are several accounts of that happening.

I place no faith in people mumbling about how they heard that somebody got banned for being under 7 ft, posted on reddit, or Slumverse.

 

As for "but people say they were banned from sim x for blah blah.

 

Most often when somebody states they were banned from a sim for whatever, they are LYING.

 

There was a thread last year, where some oaf claimed they were banned for no reasson, then tried going back as one of their alts, and when that was unable to enter the place, screamed that their IP must have been "datascraped by a filthy bot" and demanded to know i that was legal in Sl.

 

Reality ? He got  banned for being an ancient oaf, in a noob area, and his alts were banned too because he got an ESTATE BAN, not a parcel ban.

Another thread I remember had some guy kvetching that he had been unfairly banned from an adult sim in an "abuse off the power of boot". Reality was he'd spent 6 weeks stalking the owners GF, and ignoring warnings to leave her alone.

 

So, when I hear "But... But... I heard from a guy on reddit, that he'd seen a post on Slumverse, where somebody said they got banned for being 5'6 and a c cub bra" my instinct is to ignore it.

 

I've never, ever been banned for boob size, or height, nor have i ever banned anyone based just on those, nor do I know anyone who has been banned for those, or anyone who has banned others for those.

 

 

[Roxy Couturier]

1 hour ago, Starberry Passion said:

A pedophile is a person who pray on or is attracted to real life human children. The reason why people are upset when someone is doing it with a child avatar is because the audacity.

But I fear that if one was an actual pedophile and they were playing second life to keep away from real life and they are banned, they might start to try to hurt real life children as well.

That's not how it works. If they're using SL, they're building a fantasy scenario. Then practicing.

Quote

The National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) lead on safeguarding, Ian Critchley, said it would be wrong to argue that because no real children were depicted in such "synthetic" images - that no-one was harmed.

He warned that a paedophile could, "move along that scale of offending from thought, to synthetic, to actually the abuse of a live child."

They are moving along that 'scale of offending'. Because using a computer to generate the images/scenario of CA is in and of itself illegal. They're already offending.

[Starberry Passion]

3 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Certainly, but I think the question of whether the avatar she creates in SL is allowed to be in certain areas is a rather different question.

First, it's up to the region/parcel owner who they allow into their region/club/parcel/whatever, and if they decide they want to exclude her avatar because of the way the avatar looks, that's their decision.

Second, it's up to LL's Governance team to deal with any abuse reports as they see fit.   They say in the FAQ that 

so presumably, if there's any doubt about whether or not the avatar represents a child but they think it likely does, they'll advise the resident first before imposing any particular sanctions.    They'll also, they say, consider the circumstances surrounding the AR -- what conversations the avatar was having, and with whom, and I'd imagine they'd look at the avatar's profile and groups too.

If the woman keeps on finding her avatars get booted from adult venues, and particularly if she keeps on finding herself the subject of successful ARs, she'd be well-advised to choose a different avatar with which to visit those areas rather than keep trying to find out what the boundaries are with particular edge cases.

You misunderstand. There have been several people trying to deny certain looks and body types to be women. I'm not talking about people allowing them in the sim or not, i'm defending them against people who are trying to turn them into children all together when they are women. This isn't about ToS, it is about Women and their body and self expression being able to be women.

[Starberry Passion]

11 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

btw would never be able to guess he is 54.

I didn't know he was 54 either, thought he was older. lol

[Vanity Fair]

13 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The modesty layer is also a joke when the rebirth body exists.

Aren't you a child avatar ?

Not right now .....

If I were the Rebirth body creator, I would be tearing my hair out about now. 

The whole premise of the body was to able to switch seamlessly from child to teenager to adult. The clothing they sold for the Rebirth body would fit any shape you made: child, teenager, or adult. 

They were already fighting an uphill battle on a grid with so many other mesh body choices available. At least ToddleeDoo and Tweenstar and other child/teen body makers have some guidance from LL, but how do you apply it to the Rebirth body, whose major selling point was its ability to straddle the line between underage and 18+? It’s a nightmare for them.

Edited May 5 by Vanity Fair