So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 minute ago, Lysana McMillan said:

Words have more than one meaning, especially when dealing with context-based situations. You're being deliberately naive here.

 

For you, maybe. I'm still thriving and happy 16+ years later.

Me too, I'm staying until they come for short, thin hipped big breasted women 😂

*waiting for someone to say they should ban full bright flexi prim hair*

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said:

Kemonos were a furry avatar, so a furry would like a kemono avatar. It can become human and like I said, put it with an anime head, because it is a cute anime character, it will get Mistaken for a child, it's tiny, slender, small breasts. Anime heads are bigger than normal heads, because it exaggerates since it is a Cartoon, after all.

So someone seeing a cute anime avatar is just going to equate it to child.

Nothing gets "mistaken" for a child. If it looks like a child, it is a child. Sorry, I know you want to argue semantics here but there is no room for it.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

That bad huh. Hmm looks up at the sky falling. If SL ended I guess I have other things to do on and offline that while I might get a bit peeved for a week or so, I'd shrugs my shoulders and go do something else.

The sky certainly has lowered for all which explains why SL can't retain new users if their life depended on it, which it does in the long term. This new ruling will not do anything to increase the retention rate as it is just leaving everyone in the dark about what constitutes underaged avatars.

Quote

I actually think Opensim would be happy if SL closed as that would be a huge influx of avatars for them.

I doubt it as Opensim is a case of the blind being led by the blind and populated by former Second lifers who still think they are governed by the SL ToS. There'd be too much imported drama is there was a big influx of SL immigrants.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Leslie Trihey said:

I certainly got no complaints when I used to use one

Interesting choice of words.  But to me, most kemonos look "childlike enough" that I don't find them suitable.."partners" and would indeed "complain".

 

[Lysana McMillan]

Just now, Wincil said:

Again I am not being naive don't be twist my words childlike can mean anything. 

You gave a specific definition for childlike and now say it can mean anything. You either need to take a meal break from this discussion or stop trolling it.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Just now, Kathlen Onyx said:

Nothing gets "mistaken" for a child. If it looks like a child, it is a child. Sorry, I know you want to argue semantics here but there is no room for it.

My friend is anime with squirrel ears and a big bushy squirrel tail. Sure, she has that "child like" anime face, but I never considered her to be a child

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Nothing gets "mistaken" for a child. If it looks like a child, it is a child. Sorry, I know you want to argue semantics here but there is no room for it.

Maybe you could get a job on the Governance team so they would not have to review cases where there were dubious rulings?

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Are children even allowed at such places even if the child is fully-clothed now?

NO.  Per the new rules:

[Kathlen Onyx]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Maybe you could get a job on the Governance team so they would not have to review cases where there were dubious rulings?

If there was a job advertised for that, I'd apply for sure.

[Lysana McMillan]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The sky certainly has lowered for all which explains why SL can't retain new users if their life depended on it, which it does in the long term. This new ruling will not do anything to increase the retention rate as it is just leaving everyone in the dark about what constitutes underaged avatars.

Stop trying to speak for everyone, please.

[JUSTUS Palianta]

Honestly if people can't tell the difference between adult and child you have issues.  

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Interesting choice of words.  But to me, most kemonos look "childlike enough" that I don't find them suitable.."partners" and would indeed "complain".

 

The childlike look is why the majority of adult places don't allow them.

Childlike...like a child.   Not talking about a childlike sense of wonder or innocence and why the previous official article mentioned child and child-like.

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

My friend is anime with squirrel ears and a big bushy squirrel tail. Sure, she has that "child like" anime face, but I never considered her to be a child

Adding ears and a tail to a child like avatar IS a child avi. Whether someone considers them a child makes no difference. I don't consider ANY child avi to be an actual child. I assume they are all adults. If children actually were here playing I guarantee you they would be playing an adult avatar. 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

Honestly if people can't tell the difference between adult and child you have issues.  

People keep saying that but it is clear that there are many situations where it is not easily determined and Governance has to look at other factors to determine the intent of the avatar.

[Starberry Passion]

2 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Nothing gets "mistaken" for a child. If it looks like a child, it is a child. Sorry, I know you want to argue semantics here but there is no room for it.

If that was true then how is it that there are grown women who get carded all the time, with people believing she is a child? Also, people like Shauna Rae, she get's mistaken as a child.  She's 24 years old.

What about little people with dwarfism, they get mistaken for children all the time.

What about Dakota Skye, people thought she was a little child, she wasn't. she was 27 years old

Then what about Piper Perri, people thought she was a little child, she isn't. she's 28, people think she's a child for being 4'9"

What about Jenna Ortega, people on Twitter still saying "if you like this person, you're a pedo" she's 21 years old.

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Sparkle Bunny]

2 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

What it means is that few child/teen body and skin creators are going to be able to provide solutions for the customers in time to meet the June 30th deadline. 

If LL provide them with clear guidelines ASAP on how extensive the modesty layers need to be it ought to be doable by the big names. (For a number of reasons, I feel this is better handled on the body side than the skin side.) Others will follow Zooby's example and get out of the market entirely.

As for my own TD avatar, his body is always alpha'd out to fit mesh clothing and he wears BOM underwear at all times. He has no need to visit Adult regions now people are to be prevented from putting shops for kids on them. Obviously when the update becomes available I'll switch, but I am by no means sure how a bad actor would even go about reporting him for not having a modesty layer, since to all intents and purposes he already does,

[Kathlen Onyx]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

People keep saying that but it is clear that there are many situations where it is not easily determined and Governance has to look at other factors to determine the intent of the avatar.

OH they know...they just push the envelope to see if they can get away with it.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said:

If that was true then how is it that there are grown women who get carded all the time, with people believing she is a child? Also, people like Shauna Rae, she get's mistaken as a child.  She's 24 years old.

What about little people with dwarfism, they get mistaken for children all the time.

What about Dakota Skye, people thought she was a little child, she wasn't. she was 27 years old

Then what about Piper Perri, people thought she was a little child, she isn't. she's 28, people think she's a child for being 4'9"

What about Jenna Ortega, people on Twitter still saying "if you like this person, you're a pedo" she's 21 years old.

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

What about the fact that every single person you mentioned is a REAL PERSON.

If a child looks like a child in any way IN SECOND LIFE,  they are a child avi.

I'll refrain from saying you don't know what you are talking about.

[Wincil]

36 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

How did I know they lied about their height?

Hmmm.

Stay with me on this ok.

I see a suspicious avatar on the sim, that looks like it might violate the boss's NO CHILD AVATARS EVER rule.

I walk over, I look at the walking ToS violation, from my lofty 6'1" in 6" heel, and it's over a foot shrter than me.

I tell them no child avi's allowed, change or leave.

They say "But... But... I'm 5'4"

I rez a height meter, and tell them to click it, it says 4'8.

That's HOW I KNOW THEY LIED.

Simple huh?

 

How do I know the disclaimer is meaningless trash.

This one's EVEN SIMPLER.

"disclaimers" in place pics have NO LEGAL STANDING and CANNOT over rule the LL ToS, or a parcel ownerss rules. 

EVER.

Go ask a Linden if you typing "I decided I don't like LL's rules so it's ok if I ignore them" in a place pic is a valid defence against getting banned.

 

How do I know they were not "falsely banned from the sim"?

Because I was the one hired to check them out, I aw the deliberately child like head on the deliberately child like body, I was the one they lied to, repeatedly, I was the one who saw a deliberately child like avatar dressed in fetish gear, I was the one who said "change or leave" and I was the one who broke my foot off in their lying little asses.

 

There is NOTHING "hypocritical" about kicking a child-like  avatar off a parcel where child-like avatars are not allowed.

The Hypocrisy is claiming that Anime avatar users never lie, and are innocent of all wrong and stupid western "biggers" hate cute, and that LL's ToS section regarding ***-play can be ignored if it's anime and you write some nonsense in a place pic.

 

Well the issue is the height meter isn't accurate. 

Edited May 3 by Wincil

[Arielle Popstar]

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I guess that's why I tried to explain that to me, it's not a "modesty layer" (skin or body) that matters - it's whether the avatar looks naked or not. 

Does an "obvious/generic" modesty layer have to always be visible? I doubt it, because you could have top/bottom/underwear/etc. instead.

Just don't be naked. How hard is that, really?

I guess one ongoing issue being discussed is, if someone de-renders an avatar's skin and BOM layers (somehow? does that even work with skin?!?).  Then it may appear in report screenshots that the avatar was naked but they weren't really.  I know others brought this up before, and it is an "edge case".

 

As per LL's policy, a modesty layer cannot be removed. Covered yes, but not removed.

[Starberry Passion]

1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

What about the fact that every single person you mentioned is a REAL PERSON.

If a child looks like a child in any way IN SECOND LIFE,  they are a child avi.

I'll refrain from saying you don't know what you are talking about.

But you said nothing ever get's mistaken as a child, and I proved you wrong, so you still don't know what you're talking about.

[Rowan Amore]

21 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

that LL's ToS section regarding ***-play can be ignored if it's anime and you write some nonsense in a place pic.

Used to be elves.

I can almost guarantee most profiles I read that have the "my avatar is always +18.  I am not a child" look less than adult before I even cam over to see.  I have never had anything in my profile about the age of my avatar and have not once been questioned about it.  

If one is consistently been harassed by region owners for looking too young to be in an adult area...well...

[Madi Melodious]

33 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I'll give you my numbers, get a maitreya body and you'll be all set 😁

I have a mitreya body but I'm going to keep my AVIL body.   It can be "aged up" to a young adult.  I'm working on my size now.  I was 4' 9"  Now i'm going to go to 5' 2".    The interesting part that I read its the 'purpose" of the AV will be used to determine if its a child avatar.  I would like to know more about that vague statement.  I'm a scripter, I don't do the family thing.   Most of the time I consider my avatar to just be a point in SL.

[Starberry Passion]

2 minutes ago, Wincil said:

Im sorry to say if you can't tell the difference between adult and child then you have issues a height meter isn't always accurate.

It isn't, people go by different rulers and measurements of height. The red and white ruler isn't the only standard and most people just use the Firestorm height because why not? Heights are different for different measuring units

[Zalificent Corvinus]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Interesting choice of words.  But to me, most kemonos look "childlike enough" that I don't find them suitable.."partners" and would indeed "complain".

 

I actually own a kemono avatar,.

A friend into the whole "rubber-furs" thing, started a group for "Latex Imps", and ended up gifting about 110 kemono avatars, and 110 Imp mod kits, and 110 cute furry AOP's, and 110 fitted mesh bust torso replacements.

We were all hand shined with materials, came in bright candy colours, not an anatomically correct skin in sight.

We horsed around, laughed, played pranks on each other, and NONE of us looked like kids.

 

Then years later, I'm doing my shift as a sim admin, and a kemono wearer who IS trying to look like a kid, starts telling me reasons why they "can't possibly comply with sim rules" because "you can't do that with a kemono".

And I'd laugh and tell them that I knew they were lying because I own one of the bloody thing, and have probably done more "advanced kemono modding" on it than they have, and I know exactly what you can and can't do with it.

 

It used to be a popular furry avatar, it became less popular due to newer, better fursona meshes, and due to the child-like walking Tos Violations trying to push the envelope with fraudulent disclaimers etc.