Legacy Reborn body - worth it?

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The average height also differs between these places. IJS.

That makes a huge difference as well.  I'm 5'9" which is well above average globally.  I've fluctuated between 135 lbs. ( still says that on my driver's license 😁) and my current of 170 lbs. which is just over optimal.  Hey, it's been hard exercising with a bad hip!  

My mother, who is 5'2" definitely would look chubbier if she carried the same weight.   

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Me sitting here reading this butt discussion.

 

I always have the direct opposite issue - I cannot get a big ole booty for the life of me, no matter what body I try it with. What most people are calling "huge" in SL actually isn't, unless we're talking about those ancient pre-mesh shapes with the blown out hips and weird thigh gaps or Kupra on a full tank of gas. Instead, I'm seeing these rather flat cabooses that may be a bit wide when viewed from the back, but nothing I'd even acknowledge as badonkadonk. As for Reborn, it CAN do what I'd want, but not well, and not without deformers for the rest of it (plus, I HATE the thighs and knees). It's not really got the right shape for my overall look, but we'll get into that a bit later.

So, let's get into booty, shall we? I sometimes shape my avatars using photo references, which I highly recommend doing. It's a big help unless you're actually going for something non-realistic, which I often do, but even then, I like using references to ensure I'm exaggerating the right things.

Okay, so on average, I'd put Lara/Lara X into this camp over here. Kinda flat to "hint of booty":

 

Blow it out a bit more, and with the right mesh pants/shorts, you can get into this range pretty easily. Unfortunately for me, this ain't enough. It looks nice from the back, but would be too flat from the side:

 

Legacy (and Lucybody) is where things start to get interesting (and simultaneously go sideways) for me. They're similar to what Lara can achieve, but can do a bit more, and not in the greatest of ways if you go too far. You can start to blow out the hips/thighs, which is where the natural shapes can quickly take a turn into something slightly more cartoonish. Sooo, let's just look at some more realistic options instead.

Keeping things modest, I'd throw Legacy and Lucybody into something in this range. Curvier, nicer shape, but not really BOOM BOOM booty, ya know?

 

Moving on - Reborn is a weird one and I'm going to get my wig snatched for this, but I do *not* consider that body to be ultra-realistic unless you've got a lot of time and a lot of deformers. Can you achieve it - probably. Is it worth it - not for me. I'd have to course correct way too much on the thing to even be able to stand wearing it.

It's very bottom-heavy, too narrow on top, extremely hippy, there's some odd spreading that can happen if you aren't careful, and the butt just shapes strangely. But that's just me being ridiculously picky. Many love it. I just can't stand it.

But in the spirit of fairness, lemme see what I can find. This is the part of the broadcast where I start doubting the photos I'm seeing are even real or Photoshopped/AI-generated, but here we are. Let's just give this one the benefit of the doubt...so here's a modest Reborn as a person:

 

Now with that, we're finally starting to get into badonkadonk territory, but the shaping is just all wrong (for me) for the reasons stated above.

What I REALLY want is Lara/Legacy/Lucybody frame range + a matching upper body with some actual weight to it, including the arms + AN ACTUAL BOOTY - not too wide (which flattens things), and sticks out even, in the right ways. I would actually say these could be a Legacy instead of Lara, just given the curves overall. I also believe a Gen X Classic and Kalhene Erika could do it with a bit more junk in the trunk, but there just isn't enough wardrobe that exists for me to swap to those.

 

 

Okay, now that we got butt out of the way, to answer the OP - I'm not sure if you're asking if Legacy or Reborn are worth it, but I'd say it highly depends. You said you want thin - that's Maitreya Lara/Lara X. Legacy can also be thin, but if you have Lara, your wardrobe options are going to be about the same, minus a handful of Legacy exclusives. Legacy is only worth it at 50% off, where it becomes slightly cheaper than Lara, if I'm not mistaken (2500Lish).

You called Maitreya curvy, and while it CAN be, it doesn't have to be. I've made actual skeletons with Maitreya (not counting the bone mods), so it can definitely get super thin. Any other major body on the market is going to add more curve into the equation, plus as you said, Maitreya's got the wardrobe. Also take into account that some clothing will shave off part of your arms/legs/hips and can help make them look skinnier (this happens a LOT with Legacy Male pants, which is sometimes a blessing and sometimes a pain in the...butt).

I'd advise you stick with Maitreya (make sure you update to 5.3 and grab the Lara X update) and check out stores and sales. Pick up a ton of clothing demos and see how you feel after that.

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I would actually say these could be a Legacy instead of Lara, just given the curves overall

I was able to do curvy fairly well with Maitreya.  I really should fiddle around more with the LaraX since it seems to do it even better.  One of these days...

This was my shape with Maitreya.  I think it comes pretty close to a few of the pictures you posted...

 

[Orwar]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The average height also differs between these places. IJS.

   Also true - and on that, US women are shorter than European women on average. Sooo .. Not a favourable argument against what I just pointed out. Easier to just look at world BMI data - US ranks higher than any European nation. 

3 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I just want to point out that people carry weight differently.

   And this is also true, which is why I personally don't much like using BMI as an indicator. It doesn't take shape into account, those of us with broader skeletons just kind of look like we stepped out of a Gulag if we're too low in the green. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I was able to do curvy fairly well with Maitreya.  I really should fiddle around more with the LaraX since it seems to do it even better.  One of these days...

This was my shape with Maitreya.  I think it comes pretty close to a few of the pictures you posted...

 

Yes! Maitreya actually can get more curvy than some give it credit for and remains lovely when doing so! My main criticism with it will, of course, be the arms (width/weight just can't get to where I want it) and that booty is still a bit too flat from the side for me. I KNOW, I'M SORRY. My RL butt can knock things off tables and I panic when museums and galleries place priceless artifacts in glass-covered displays in the middle of the ROOM, OKAY? 😂 

[Janet Voxel]

1 minute ago, Orwar said: 

   And this is also true, which is why I personally don't much like using BMI as an indicator. It doesn't take shape into account, those of us with broader skeletons just kind of look like we stepped out of a Gulag if we're too low in the green. 

It’s funny this came up, because me and some ladies at work were just talking about how overweight people that lose too much weight tend to appear to have bigger heads and look unnatural.

Being stick thin doesn't suit everybody. And….thats ok.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Me sitting here reading this butt discussion.

 

I always have the direct opposite issue - I cannot get a big ole booty for the life of me, no matter what body I try it with. What most people are calling "huge" in SL actually isn't, unless we're talking about those ancient pre-mesh shapes with the blown out hips and weird thigh gaps or Kupra on a full tank of gas. Instead, I'm seeing these rather flat cabooses that may be a bit wide when viewed from the back, but nothing I'd even acknowledge as badonkadonk. As for Reborn, it CAN do what I'd want, but not well, and not without deformers for the rest of it (plus, I HATE the thighs and knees). It's not really got the right shape for my overall look, but we'll get into that a bit later.

So, let's get into booty, shall we? I sometimes shape my avatars using photo references, which I highly recommend doing. It's a big help unless you're actually going for something non-realistic, which I often do, but even then, I like using references to ensure I'm exaggerating the right things.

Okay, so on average, I'd put Lara/Lara X into this camp over here. Kinda flat to "hint of booty":

 

Blow it out a bit more, and with the right mesh pants/shorts, you can get into this range pretty easily. Unfortunately for me, this ain't enough. It looks nice from the back, but would be too flat from the side:

 

Legacy (and Lucybody) is where things start to get interesting (and simultaneously go sideways) for me. They're similar to what Lara can achieve, but can do a bit more, and not in the greatest of ways if you go too far. You can start to blow out the hips/thighs, which is where the natural shapes can quickly take a turn into something slightly more cartoonish. Sooo, let's just look at some more realistic options instead.

Keeping things modest, I'd throw Legacy and Lucybody into something in this range. Curvier, nicer shape, but not really BOOM BOOM booty, ya know?

 

Moving on - Reborn is a weird one and I'm going to get my wig snatched for this, but I do *not* consider that body to be ultra-realistic unless you've got a lot of time and a lot of deformers. Can you achieve it - probably. Is it worth it - not for me. I'd have to course correct way too much on the thing to even be able to stand wearing it.

It's very bottom-heavy, too narrow on top, extremely hippy, there's some odd spreading that can happen if you aren't careful, and the butt just shapes strangely. But that's just me being ridiculously picky. Many love it. I just can't stand it.

But in the spirit of fairness, lemme see what I can find. This is the part of the broadcast where I start doubting the photos I'm seeing are even real or Photoshopped/AI-generated, but here we are. Let's just give this one the benefit of the doubt...so here's a modest Reborn as a person:

 

Now with that, we're finally starting to get into badonkadonk territory, but the shaping is just all wrong (for me) for the reasons stated above.

What I REALLY want is Lara/Legacy/Lucybody frame range + a matching upper body with some actual weight to it, including the arms + AN ACTUAL BOOTY - not too wide (which flattens things), and sticks out even, in the right ways. I would actually say these could be a Legacy instead of Lara, just given the curves overall. I also believe a Gen X Classic and Kalhene Erika could do it with a bit more junk in the trunk, but there just isn't enough wardrobe that exists for me to swap to those.

 

 

Okay, now that we got butt out of the way, to answer the OP - I'm not sure if you're asking if Legacy or Reborn are worth it, but I'd say it highly depends. You said you want thin - that's Maitreya Lara/Lara X. Legacy can also be thin, but if you have Lara, your wardrobe options are going to be about the same, minus a handful of Legacy exclusives. Legacy is only worth it at 50% off, where it becomes slightly cheaper than Lara, if I'm not mistaken (2500Lish).

You called Maitreya curvy, and while it CAN be, it doesn't have to be. I've made actual skeletons with Maitreya (not counting the bone mods), so it can definitely get super thin. Any other major body on the market is going to add more curve into the equation, plus as you said, Maitreya's got the wardrobe. Also take into account that some clothing will shave off part of your arms/legs/hips and can help make them look skinnier (this happens a LOT with Legacy Male pants, which is sometimes a blessing and sometimes a pain in the...butt).

I'd advise you stick with Maitreya (make sure you update to 5.3 and grab the Lara X update) and check out stores and sales. Pick up a ton of clothing demos and see how you feel after that.

I love how you showed pictures of RL women to show what is a natural shape. (I'm suspicious of the waist on that woman in the flower shop though.)

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I love how you showed pictures of RL women to show what is a natural shape. (I'm suspicious of the waist on that woman in the flower shop though.)

Thank you!

And yes, I'm suspicious of a few of them, honestly, LOL. It's SO HARD finding natural-looking shapes out in the wild without getting results that are chock full of edited or generated nonsense. Google REALLY needs to fix this and demand labeling, at least for the AI stuff. So annoying.

[CaitlinParker]

20 hours ago, takemasaa said:

I've been using Maitreya for a long, long time - from back when it was still the best mesh body option. I'm starting to notice less and less creators making clothing for Maitreya and switching over to Legacy Reborn.

I'll be honest, I'm out of the loop as I have not gone clothes shopping in quite a while. I went to an event and saw probably 50% of the clothing vendors only offering one size for Legacy Reborn. Kinda surprised me.

I like very thin looking avatars. Maitreya has always leaned towards a curvier build, but I made it work as best as I could, although my arms stick out like noodles and I've just accepted it. I know nothing about Legacy Reborn's body type possibilities. For those that made the switch - was it worth it? Is Legacy Reborn going to take over completely?

I have so many clothes for Maitreya I dread rebuilding a wardrobe, but perhaps if this is the future of SL bodies it's a necessary thing I have to do T__T Just wanna hear from others before I consider investing into the body

My suggestion... pick the body you're most comfortable with once you've tried the demos for each one.

[Zallia Creeley]

Also, moving bodies has a cost. Depending on how far back your inventory goes, switching to Reborn or Legacy can be tough. When I got Legacy, my older Lara stuff was useless. I found out late that I could use the deformers.

Folks here may be willing to help you tweak your Lara shape before you move to a new body.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

To the OP: It may be worthwhile to look into deformers to make the Lara body thinner.

Right now Maitreya is probably the thinnest body among competitive options. You could of course go Senra as that is actually thinner and "new" but it's meant to be for newbies and is of dubious quality without notable work. Some years back there were more thin and I recall one that was almost totally lacking in curves to the point of being potentially androgenous. But most of those have fallen into obscurity and if you do track one down, you might be stuck being an SL nudist or always in your basic 'body included undies'.

 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

The one thing that bothers me about all these "too curvy" or "too thin" choices is that developers all follow each other rather than carving out new space.

Everybody puts out 'mild curves' for a decade and so we have maitreya, legacy, belleza, slink and several others.
Then it's all very curvy so we go from SKING to Kupra, reBorn, etc.

One developer does big bottom on tiny top, so they all do it. And then the 'mild curves' brands put out mods to make the top smaller.

There's a lack of variety.

The big brands boil down to three choices right now: Maitreya, reBorn, and Legacy. And that gives you two basic body shapes because the difference between Maitreya and Legacy is like the difference between brands of bath towels - they're aimed at the same customer.

I'm reminded of when I lived in Korea 30 years ago, walking around a corner and seeing motorcycle repair shops. Not too weird, not something I had any interest in. But it was the next two blocks, both sides of the road - identical shops all the way down. Another time it was florists in the same layout. I kept thinking: isn't your business suffering if you're the shop 2 down from the middle of all of that? What makes you stand out here?

Be unique.

We can do that with our own avatars, but the merchants are all copying themes from each other rather than looking at saying "hey, here's this segment that is X-Y% of women or men, for which nobody has a body in SL that can make it - I should sell that."

Instead they plop down a shop next to the other florists, and sell the same flowers, but the sign outside is a cartoon rose instead of a cartoon orchid.

 

 

[Persephone Emerald]

5 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

The one thing that bothers me about all these "too curvy" or "too thin" choices is that developers all follow each other rather than carving out new space.

Everybody puts out 'mild curves' for a decade and so we have maitreya, legacy, belleza, slink and several others.
Then it's all very curvy so we go from SKING to Kupra, reBorn, etc.

One developer does big bottom on tiny top, so they all do it. And then the 'mild curves' brands put out mods to make the top smaller.

There's a lack of variety.

The big brands boil down to three choices right now: Maitreya, reBorn, and Legacy. And that gives you two basic body shapes because the difference between Maitreya and Legacy is like the difference between brands of bath towels - they're aimed at the same customer.

I'm reminded of when I lived in Korea 30 years ago, walking around a corner and seeing motorcycle repair shops. Not too weird, not something I had any interest in. But it was the next two blocks, both sides of the road - identical shops all the way down. Another time it was florists in the same layout. I kept thinking: isn't your business suffering if you're the shop 2 down from the middle of all of that? What makes you stand out here?

Be unique.

We can do that with our own avatars, but the merchants are all copying themes from each other rather than looking at saying "hey, here's this segment that is X-Y% of women or men, for which nobody has a body in SL that can make it - I should sell that."

Instead they plop down a shop next to the other florists, and sell the same flowers, but the sign outside is a cartoon rose instead of a cartoon orchid.

Maybe one good part about all this direct competition might be how it weeds out the less than ideal versions of these mesh bodies? I agree with you though, that there should be more options than either hourglass or pear-shaped bodies. Some people like curves, but some like slender or athletic shapes.

This is how it should be in SL, with all kinds of realistic or fantasy bodies - humans, furries, animals, anime, cyborgs, aliens, fantasy creatures, etc.

Of course, I don't envy creators trying to make clothing for half a dozen or more mesh bodies, but they could specialize in just the most popular bodies, just the curvier ones, or just the slender, athletic or androgynous ones.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

11 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

Be unique.

Good point and I do agree with everything you said, but I think a lot of this has to do with needing some sort of assurance that clothing designers will support said unique thing, otherwise, customers won't be too interested. We can look to the furry/anthro market to see how that works out.

A furry designer making mods for Maitreya, Jake, Legacy, and Reborn will get more business than one who decides to up and create an entire avatar/body (for example, the Snorka Snake), because now customers are relying on popular clothing/accessory creators to rig for it. Some definitely do, but you can't take your Snorka over to Addams or Seniha or Coco and grab cheap weekend sale items, despite how absolutely adorable it is.

We've certainly got uniqueness in the head market (especially the non-human realm), but in order to pull that off, they did have to adopt Evo X. Prior to that, we all had custom maps, which made shopping for skins, hairbases, makeup, and tattoos an absolute pain in the tuckus.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

I do not do curvy in SL. The old Lara is great for me. But I have seen an influx of ultra unrealistic curvy avatars.  What get a lil giggle out of me is them tiny lil feets with a huge booty and chest.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

40 minutes ago, SpiritSparrow Skydancer said:

I do not do curvy in SL. The old Lara is great for me. But I have seen an influx of ultra unrealistic curvy avatars.

I think it was already covered up thread, even with photos of real people; how for many of these saying they're unrealistic is... at best not accurate.

Perhaps the old SKING bodies could be classified that way but even there counter examples can be found.

THAT stated. Tiny hands / feet, shrunken heads, etc - you can certainly go wrong with the shape dials.

 

[takemasaa]

I had no idea my question would spark such a conversation! Thank you all for the feedback on Legacy vs Reborn vs Maitreya!

I like my avatar to be somewhat close to my real life body type, but everyone does things differently here in SL. There are definitely unrealistic body types that people choose for their avatars, but that's just their choice for self expression. There's also people who choose realistic, but "ideal" body types based on their standards of beauty. Most of the popular bodies I've seen lean more naturally curvy but can be modified to a different size for better or for worse (i.e. the tiny hands/feet problem). There are lots of options, though I'd say for clothing there is an imbalance between the popular bodies and all the other bodies, which end up having a lack of support and falling into a hardly touched niche. 

I think I'll stick with Maitreya based on the feedback in this thread. I thought Legacy and Reborn were the same because a lot of creators just put "legacy reborn" as a size on their advertising photos, and I never bothered checking out the bodies individually lol - a lot of the ad photos didn't look super curvy either so I wondered if it was just an improved version of Maitreya as they seem to be so popular. I even had a friend highly recommend I make the switch at some point because they thought Legacy was better. But for my needs of having no big butt and a smaller chest and little noodle arms/legs, Maitreya has the most options by far in terms of clothing. Just not worth the upgrade since it appears Maitreya isn't dying out, just some creators aren't making for it anymore for whatever reason.

[HeathcliffMontague]

1 hour ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

Tiny hands / feet, shrunken heads, etc - you can certainly go wrong with the shape dials.

 

Yeah, as a guy I see a lot of that, regardless of slim, more booty of whathever. Ain't very attractive with huge T&A and a voodoo like shrunken head. Ironically, guys used to have biceps twice the size of their heads, but seem to have gotten a lot better on it  

[Ceka Cianci]

On 4/16/2024 at 3:18 PM, takemasaa said:

I've been using Maitreya for a long, long time - from back when it was still the best mesh body option. I'm starting to notice less and less creators making clothing for Maitreya and switching over to Legacy Reborn.

I'll be honest, I'm out of the loop as I have not gone clothes shopping in quite a while. I went to an event and saw probably 50% of the clothing vendors only offering one size for Legacy Reborn. Kinda surprised me.

I like very thin looking avatars. Maitreya has always leaned towards a curvier build, but I made it work as best as I could, although my arms stick out like noodles and I've just accepted it. I know nothing about Legacy Reborn's body type possibilities. For those that made the switch - was it worth it? Is Legacy Reborn going to take over completely?

I have so many clothes for Maitreya I dread rebuilding a wardrobe, but perhaps if this is the future of SL bodies it's a necessary thing I have to do T__T Just wanna hear from others before I consider investing into the body

I wouldn't judge a bodies popularity by the events.. Because you can go to one event and not see much of one body but see them at others..   Events are really just the old shopping malls that were dead half the time, only now they have much better advertising. You would get a ton of followers following around the triple A content creators setting up stores in those malls only because a few big names were in them... Things haven't changed much at all from those days other than the advertising.

Maitreya Lara itself, has years of content over those two bodies, more content than any body on the market .. The older one, Legacy, is only like 5 years old..Reborn just had it's second birthday back in I want to say October..

Just go to the MP and type each one of their names in the search and search each one and see the numbers just on the MP. There is a lot more quality content made for the Maitreya Lara body. Just look at the difference on apparel and accessories when you see the numbers..

They could stop making things for Maitreya now and it would still take a few years for the other bodies to catch up..

The nice thing about your Maitreya body is, you can find things for it that you'll never find made for the other two.. Maitreya has accessories up the wazoo on the market..

Also, Maitreya's Lara was never intended as a curvy body.. Lara X you can get a little curvy with it if you want.. But it's not a curvy body either..

I have all these bodies.. You have the thinnest one of the three.

For the shoulders, you can fix the shoulders with deformers.

there is nothing wrong with your body and I wouldn't worry about content for it.. It has just about everything covered.. hehehe

Really you should join the Maitreya Lara Friends group.. People are always sharing store information in there, like constantly.. hehehe

 

 

Edited April 19 by Ceka Cianci

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

For the shoulders, you can fix the shoulders with deformers.

I got this free deformer set on MP today for my alt Alycia. The shoulder deformer in it called "please fix my shoulders - Lower 4" works well for her Maitreya Lara and doesn't look bad on LaraX either. I'm planning to get this set for all my female avatars.

Some poses and animations still don't look great with this deformer, but overall, the look is better.

[Orwar]

3 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Some poses and animations still don't look great with this deformer, but overall, the look is better.

   Some poses and animations - a lot of them, in fact - are just badly made. Especially the shoulders seem to be something people are quite happy to wring totally out of position as a shortcut to get hands/arms where they want them. 

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Orwar said:

   Some poses and animations - a lot of them, in fact - are just badly made. Especially the shoulders seem to be something people are quite happy to wring totally out of position as a shortcut to get hands/arms where they want them. 

I agree, a lot really mess with the head positions as well, putting the chin almost into the breastplate.

[Rick Nightingale]

4 hours ago, Orwar said:

Some poses and animations - a lot of them, in fact - are just badly made.

Agreed; it's one of the things I was thinking from the other thread about badly fitting LX items.

It's hard to make good animations; that is, ones that work well in SL with a variety of bodies and shapes, so we get the usual situation where many makers just do the minimum to get the product on sale.

It's also why I rarely make animations except simple ones for a few of my products (or myself). I'm simply not good enough at it, and don't have the time or inclination to learn, to make a product I would actually be proud of.

 

[Blush Bravin]

Oh lordy! Don't get me started on poorly made animations! Besides raising the shoulders way out of shape, what about all the animations out there that are made to work with T-rex shapes. I'm so sick and tired of having my hands not end up where they should. I don't drink with my ears!!!!! Gahhhhhhhhhh!

*rant over*

[Orwar]

3 hours ago, Rick Nightingale said:

Agreed; it's one of the things I was thinking from the other thread about badly fitting LX items.

It's hard to make good animations; that is, ones that work well in SL with a variety of bodies and shapes, so we get the usual situation where many makers just do the minimum to get the product on sale.

   Yes and no. If you dislodge a shoulder in order to hold a coffee cup, it's a bad animation. If even a slight rotation of your thigh causes a jagged bulge to appear in a mesh (which doesn't happen with all clothes, or with the body alone, even if it's a common issue for clothes for that body), it's a problem in the rigging.

   But yeah, I agree - a lot of creators do the bare minimum work to spit out as much product as possible for profits.