Should Shop&Hop compete with Relay For Life?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes it would be something seriously wrong.  You can investigate and see if something is seriously wrong:

https://www.cancer.org/about-us/financial-governance-information/combined-financial-statements.html

Hmmm, maybe you should have checked those before posting the link.

2022 statement, numbers are in thousands, comparison with 2021

                                                                                                 2022                   2021

Research and other program grants payable                133,138              114,241

Employee retirement benefits                                         127,713               167,853

 

Hmm, 2021, 167 million on retirement benefits, and 114 million on research, out of a total of 1.4 billion.

In 2021 they spent 295 million on Patient support, 151 million on "discovery", and 36 million on political lobbying, 25 million on "management", 96 million on fundraising.

14 million on "meetings and travel", that went up in 2022 to 35 million.

464 million on "employees and suppliers"

They also spent almost 1.6 billion on "investments" which the following year gave them a return of only 26 million.

 

Seems there's a lot of money not going on research, and some really bad executive decisions that seem to suggest the management are overpaying themselves.

 

The report shows that they consider the breakdown between "program delivery" and "program support" ( fighting cancer etc vs admin ) as 80/20. But their definition of program delivery contains a substantial amount of "admin & management costs, so the actual split is probably less favourable.

 

As for "Discovery", they don't apparently do much research themselves, instead giving grants to your enemy "big pharms".

 

Hardly a glowing testimonial.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Hmmm, maybe you should have checked those before posting the link.

You have no idea what it takes to manage such a large organization with a presence all over the world.

Also, stop cherry-picking data.

[Sid Nagy]

28 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

One year when I participated in the Home & Garden (Home Living or whatever it's called now), a woman discovered me and bought all kind of stuff.  Other than that it's hard to know if the exposure really helped.

For me, it's just too much work, but then I don't care much about earning money anymore. It became more like a rat-race to do so and less about creativity, and I really let myself get burned by that.

This Shop & Hop is my first event ever.  I was curious, so I filled in the form.
I had fun creating the shop and the freebie, but I don't think I'm gonna make a habit of it to participate in events.
Since I retired in RL I totally enjoy not having to deal with deadlines anymore.

 

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

I totally enjoy not having to deal with deadlines anymore.

I hear you...don't like the pressure of deadlines. Especially with trying to accomplish something creative.

[PheebyKatz]

8 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

This Shop & Hop is my first event ever.  I was curious, so I filled in the form.
I had fun creating the shop and the freebie, but I don't think I'm gonna make a habit of it to participate in events.
Since I retired in RL I totally enjoy not having to deal with deadlines anymore.

 

I'm (technically) retired too, but deadlines keep me lively. But hey, you're still on my Legends List.

You might not set up at events, but if I saw you at one, rest assured, I'd embarrass the heck out of you in some way. And pester you for free gifts. Repeatedly.

Probably force people to come see and buy things, too. Be glad that time I saw you inworld you were able to get away before I latched on. Your sanity is probably better off for it.

Edited February 5 by PheebyKatz

[Sid Nagy]

3 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said:

 But hey, you're still on my Legends List.

Yay, I made the list.
Where do I have that happy dance gif tucked away again?

Ah.. there it is:

[Persephone Emerald]

44 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Completely silly question ... never been to the Shop&Hop events before and wow, nice. How often do they happen?

I believe LL currently puts on a Shop & Hop event in June (to coincide with their birthday events), in October (for Halloween), in December (for the winter holidays), and in February (for Valentine's Day). June and December are the bigger events. I'd personally like to see the February Shop & Hop replaced with a Spring one, so as to space them out better throughout the year.

I love Shop & Hop for collecting the free gifts, which would be quite a burden without the YouTube vlogers and Fab Free's interactive chart to help me narrow in on only the best gifts for my avatars.

[Rat Luv]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Last night, I advertised, with more than a week's lead up, a discussion session about an RL cause in three different, reasonably largish groups, all of whom host people who could reasonably be expected to be very interested in the subject.

Not a single person showed up. Nada. Zip.

I can't say I was entirely surprised, but it was a useful reminder. The successful things that I have hosted in the last few years all had an additional "hook": art, and music and dance. I had very good turnouts for two art exhibitions on political causes that I held, but both were "events" in a way quite different from the things I used to run.

I think this is very true - and I probably do it too. I will be honest...if two charity nights are going on, and one will be playing punk or post-punk, or music that I'm into, and I think I will see people I sort of know and have fun with...but the other is playing folk or jazz, or having speeches and we all sit around in silence...  I would honestly rather go to the first, and maybe tip the other remotely...

I went to some Occupy SL events, and remember people saying "I read some poems and the whole sim cleared" because the rest of the event was DJs or musicians...but also, if Live Aid had been just speeches and presentations, maybe it would have never been broadcast around the world? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  It's hard to predict how people will respond! I think these things do need to be entertaining. 

 

[PheebyKatz]

13 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

I think this is very true - and I probably do it too. I will be honest...if two charity nights are going on, and one will be playing punk or post-punk, or music that I'm into, and I think I will see people I sort of know and have fun with...but the other is playing folk or jazz, or having speeches and we all sit around in silence...  I would honestly rather go to the first, and maybe tip the other remotely...

I went to some Occupy SL events, and remember people saying "I read some poems and the whole sim cleared" because the rest of the event was DJs or musicians...but also, if Live Aid had been just speeches and presentations, maybe it would have never been broadcast around the world? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  It's hard to predict how people will respond! I think these things do need to be entertaining. 

 

It's just human nature. Most people join SL for fun, even if they end up eventually wanting more than just fun stuff. We had a live fiction read once and nobody attended. It was cancelled due to nobody showing up.

Of course, it was right in the middle of prime party time in the evening, and it was held at the same time other events were going on at Sci-Fi Con.

Normal attendance is anywhere from 6 to 25 people, we had 0. I had to tell someone it wasn't their fault and wasn't cause for sadness, it was just poor scheduling. A later read at Sci-Fi Con got more attendees, naturally. But then, we had a reading last night and had a normal-ish attendance.

It just happens. I helped with an AIDS benefit once, and we even had people like Coco Robicheaux, and other very real celebrities, and barely raised any money, and nobody seemed to know there was anything going on aside from there being some people standing around in a parking lot, and one was singing. Then again, I cooked chicken at a benefit for a baby girl who needed medical help so she wouldn't die (she couldn't digest food), and people who had no idea there was even a charity event happening were mobbing it to get some chicken. I told them what it was for, and they were throwing down 20s for a piece of chicken all of a sudden.

You really never know how people are going to feel, and what they'll want to go to.

Even serious, sincere people would rather just go dance than discuss important things sometimes. Not anyone's fault.

Edited February 5 by PheebyKatz

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

I think this is very true - and I probably do it too. I will be honest...if two charity nights are going on, and one will be playing punk or post-punk, or music that I'm into, and I think I will see people I sort of know and have fun with...but the other is playing folk or jazz, or having speeches and we all sit around in silence...  I would honestly rather go to the first, and maybe tip the other remotely...

I went to some Occupy SL events, and remember people saying "I read some poems and the whole sim cleared" because the rest of the event was DJs or musicians...but also, if Live Aid had been just speeches and presentations, maybe it would have never been broadcast around the world? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  It's hard to predict how people will respond! I think these things do need to be entertaining. 

 

I have mixed feelings about this, tbh.

On the one hand, I totally get the desire for something engaging and "fun" as well as informative. I attend RL conferences which are 90% sitting in rooms listening to people talking, and it can get . . . zzzzzzzzz

On the other, there is a sort of cognitive disconnect sometimes. I went to one event last year in support of Ukraine, and it was kind of weird, the clash between the seriousness and tragic dimensions of the cause, and the "Here's another fun tune to dance to!" vibe of the event -- complete with particle spam (hearts and stuff). (Parenthetically, I can remember booking a live performer for an event 14 years ago centered around 16 Days of Activism against Gender Violence, and the tunes that this performer chose to play, for an event focused on violence against women, were just . . . yeesh. Talk about "not getting it.")

It's always been a challenge doing "engaging" or even "immersive" stuff in SL centred on RL tragedy. The Darfur exhibition in SL in 2007 was criticized, with some justice, for turning a real life calamity into a sort of RP event.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Completely silly question ... never been to the Shop&Hop events before and wow, nice. How often do they happen?

Adding: And what does the "hop" signify? Is it a dance ("sock hop")? Is it for bunnies? Is it for beer drinkers ("hops")? Does "hop" refer to quickly moving between locations? 

[Cain Maven]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Adding: And what does the "hop" signify? Is it a dance ("sock hop")? Is it for bunnies? Is it for beer drinkers ("hops")? Does "hop" refer to quickly moving between locations? 

Maybe it just sounds better than "Purchase and Teleport"?

[Sid Nagy]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Adding: And what does the "hop" signify? Is it a dance ("sock hop")? Is it for bunnies? Is it for beer drinkers ("hops")? Does "hop" refer to quickly moving between locations? 

Seeing the rapid movements by some on the event, I guess the correct answer is the quickly moving between locations.
And now the question for the brandnew refrigerator ...........

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Last night, I advertised, with more than a week's lead up, a discussion session about an RL cause in three different, reasonably largish groups, all of whom host people who could reasonably be expected to be very interested in the subject.

Not a single person showed up. Nada. Zip.

I can't say I was entirely surprised, but it was a useful reminder. The successful things that I have hosted in the last few years all had an additional "hook": art, and music and dance. I had very good turnouts for two art exhibitions on political causes that I held, but both were "events" in a way quite different from the things I used to run.

It's become very clear to me that the only way to run a successful charity and/or activist event now is to turn it into an "entertainment" of some kind -- a gallery exhibition, a shopping element, DJs or live performers with a dance floor.

Apologies for bringing more real life into the discussion (I'll bring it back to SL, I promise), but doesn't this somewhat mirror how real life charity fundraisers and social events for a good cause tend to go, as well? Usually a dress-up semi-formal event (or formal, even), big fancy reception hall, dinner, dancing, live band? Now, I haven't been to any myself as I'm just not posh enough to be offered an invitation (how dare), but that seems to be what I remember them being like.

Of course, if I'm totally making things up and my romanticized view of such things is the result of watching way too much Golden Girls in the 90s, please don't hesitate to let me know. 😂

In fact, the one charity event I do remember attending was more of a casual pancake breakfast type deal. Don't quote me because my memory is horrible, but I'm pretty sure I was on the setup/serving end of things and not a guest (I was a kid at the time). Plenty showed up because, well, food!

To bring this back into SL, perhaps something like that (social dinners and similar events) could work for other causes if organizers want to get away from the traditional spend money/shopping/DJ/dancing-type events that currently exist but still give people some sense of entertainment. I do like the idea of keeping the art galleries and exhibits, though. 

I'll also echo Pheeby's offer - if you need help setting anything up for a charity event (on the decorating side, especially!) you can always give me a shout. Just poke me on the forums, too, as I don't always venture in-world every day.

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

Seeing the rapid movements by some on the event, I guess the correct answer is the quickly moving between locations.
And now the question for the brandnew refrigerator ...........

Can you provide a link to your shop?  I've yet to attend.

[PheebyKatz]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It's always been a challenge doing "engaging" or even "immersive" stuff in SL centred on RL tragedy. The Darfur exhibition in SL in 2007 was criticized, with some justice, for turning a real life calamity into a sort of RP event.

Consider how many see SL as more of an escape than a platform for communication, and it makes sense. Though I do meet a fair number of people in SL who are for real causes, the population density of any particular group centered on a particular focus is going to be smaller than IRL, and if you've ever hosted a charitable event IRL you already know how hard it can be to get people to even attend those, unless they have some other motivation for it than the cause itself.

If it wasn't the case, people would donate to support public broadcasting without needing to be bribed with a coffee cup or a t-shirt. Well, more of them would.

But still. Do it anyway. It's real and meaningful.

And yeah, people could at least have some taste when they attend such a thing. Or DJ for it. Besides, the playlist can make a difference, too, if they do it right.

[Rat Luv]

30 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I have mixed feelings about this, tbh.

On the one hand, I totally get the desire for something engaging and "fun" as well as informative. I attend RL conferences which are 90% sitting in rooms listening to people talking, and it can get . . . zzzzzzzzz

On the other, there is a sort of cognitive disconnect sometimes. I went to one event last year in support of Ukraine, and it was kind of weird, the clash between the seriousness and tragic dimensions of the cause, and the "Here's another fun tune to dance to!" vibe of the event -- complete with particle spam (hearts and stuff). (Parenthetically, I can remember booking a live performer for an event 14 years ago centered around 16 Days of Activism against Gender Violence, and the tunes that this performer chose to play, for an event focused on violence against women, were just . . . yeesh. Talk about "not getting it.")

I agree with this too...it is strange  to think you've turned an important cause into 'one night on SL' and then everyone TPs out afterwards and forgets about it, or just remembers the fun they had...

Edited February 6 by Rat Luv

[Scylla Rhiadra]

55 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said:

And yeah, people could at least have some taste when they attend such a thing. Or DJ for it. Besides, the playlist can make a difference, too, if they do it right.

I have a friend who is now my "go-to" for DJing my exhibitions because she not only possesses a really expansive and eclectic knowledge and taste in music, but also puts a really impressive effort into putting together playlists for the sets she does for me -- usually running them by me before the opening. I used her the first time for my "Yes Her" exhibit, which had a feminist theme, and her set was amazing, relevant, and so carefully thought out -- so much so that I decided to bill her participation on the posters as a "musical essay" rather than a "set."

So, yes, the playlist can totally make a difference, and really set the tone for the event.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

59 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

I agree with this too...it is strange  to think you've turned an important cause into 'one night on SL' and then everyone TPs out afterwards and forgets about it, or just remembers the fun they had...

Last night's debacle -- which, as I said, was not entirely unexpected -- means that I have to rethink how to do this. And most importantly, how to do it with some sensitivity to the RL horror that is the focus.

RAWA -- an activist group with which I was affiliated that was devoted to the stories of Afghan women -- had a sort of interesting "museum" approach to this back in 2011, using RL images with text.

It was definitely sensitive to its subject, but I don't think such an exhibition would attract much attention on its own these days. Soooo . . .

/me ponders.

Edited February 6 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Sid Nagy]

11 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Can you provide a link to your shop?  I've yet to attend.

If you have the signatures on in your browser:

👇👇👇                                               👇👇👇

Edited February 6 by Sid Nagy

[Paul Hexem]

Why would anyone donate to a charity in SL anyway? Even if you ignore everything else, the currency conversions alone make it a silly idea vs giving directly.

[steeljane42]

15 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Why would anyone donate to a charity in SL anyway? Even if you ignore everything else, the currency conversions alone make it a silly idea vs giving directly.

My only guess if when people make some money in SL already, perhaps? Creators and such. To donate directly they'd have to cash out which has the same conversion problem, and also needs a Tilia account setup on top of it, which people who just create for fun might not have/want.

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Why would anyone donate to a charity in SL anyway? Even if you ignore everything else, the currency conversions alone make it a silly idea vs giving directly.

I don't mind LL getting a cut of the monies -- they are, after all, hosting the RFL events and providing the opportunity for RFL to operate on their servers. Would be great if they waved the currency conversion as a donation themselves, but I have no problem with it if they did not.

More to your point though, is that with RFL many who donate in SL wouldn't do so in RL for various reasons.

Best to go with what produces results rather than what would be ideal.

Edited February 6 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, steeljane42 said:

My only guess if when people make some money in SL already, perhaps? Creators and such. To donate directly they'd have to cash out which has the same conversion problem, and also needs a Tilia account setup on top of it, which people who just create for fun might not have/want.

Very true.

Also, when I donate to charities in SL I can even use it as a tax deduction. I only have to keep a good record of it via copies of the transactions in case I'm ever audited.

Edited February 6 by Luna Bliss