LaraX?

[Ceka Cianci]

6 hours ago, Orwar said:

   No, Gianni has pretty much always been ahead of Jake, as far as I can remember anyway. Some creators dropped Gianni (I've heard some say it's more difficult to rig for than Jake, but I don't know whether that's true), including a lot of stores that are at events - so Jake may seem more popular, but in reality it really isn't. 

   It's just like those creators dropping Maitreya. It makes people think it's in decline, but in reality it hasn't even been a question of competition - Maitreya just is the most widely used body around.

   Oh well, as a consumer and user of both Maitreya and Gianni all I can do is shrug and say 'fine, I'll spend my L$ elsewhere'. 

Actually last summer or maybe it was  late spring of that year, Jake was ahead of Gianni.. I don't know if they were going back and forth in that position a lot or not because I hadn't really been looking at the numbers a lot before maybe mid winter..

Then  Gianni went passed and been holding ever since.. Maybe those second life university videos had something to do with it or something.. Who knows.. hehehe

Edited August 10, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Ceka Cianci]

2 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I too bought Lilly about a month before they gave it away free, I saw someone with it and ran straight to the store. It's such a good head.

 

It's the most versatile head at Lelutka, I believe..  Like someone was saying, you can tell who has an Avalon head on.. But Lilly you can really change it up pretty good to different looks..  I think it has everything a good head needs for versatility.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Psyche Starling]

2 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

The whole Midnight Madness thing for Lucybody has to be hurting adoption... just get rid of it, give it away and continue to charge for the BOM HUD would be my recommendation but what do I know.

The whole TMP/Legacy thing just seems confusing to me, I think maybe the naming isn't helping things either... if you search for "Legacy Classic" clothes you'll find a few (and a whole lot of false positives) but... from what you're saying this actually fits clothes that are labelled TMP? I'm out of the loop on Legacy stuff in general but I suspect a lot of people are getting that body and then realizing it isn't "Legacy" and there's not much they can easily find to wear.

 

Meshbody Classic, TMP, and sometimes Legacy Classic will mean the free one. But making it extra confusing, some creators will name their size for new!Legacy "Legacy Classic" to distinguish it from Legacy Perky!

[steeljane42]

28 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Actually last summer or maybe it was  late spring of that year, Jake was ahead of Gianni.. I don't know if they were going back and forth in that position a lot or not because I hadn't really been looking at the numbers a lot before maybe mid winter..

Then  Gianni went passed and been holding ever since.. Maybe those second life university videos had something to do with it or something.. Who knows.. hehehe

It never was ahead of Gianni, ever. Jake's got a bit closer to Gianni now, but because of the initial difference it's still behind in total numbers detected. And probably will stay so considering that they are going to relelase male Gen X body at some point, which probably won't kill Jake's support right away especially if they'll keep it on 50% sale, but some creators will definitely swap to gen X at some point. And if it'll be the same story as with female gen X bodies, then some current Jake users will just swap to other bodies (probably Legacy), because Jake's support will be slowing down and gen X's will not pick up at all.

That if Belleza didn't learn their lesson (did they ever?). If they did and would offer some kind of an upgrade path for Jake users, and don't try to sell new male gen X body for 5.5k to begin with, then it might have a decent start. But knowing them and how they do things I wouldn't bet on it.

Here are late 2021's stats.

 

24 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It's the most versatile head at Lelutka, I believe..  Like someone was saying, you can tell who has an Avalon head on

I'd say Avalon is actually the most versatile of all their heads they ever made, by (very) far. And despite that I said that you can still see it's Avalon; that's mostly because it's really everywhere and in such large numbers. Kinda like Catya in 2017-2018 was everywhere.

Lilly is less versatile (all their other heads are, although some more and some less) and you can also easily tell who got it on. Cheeks and lips are less flexible on it for sure, especially the latter.

It's mostly the matter of "experience" of checking them anyway. Do it often enough and you'll be able to see the unique traits on them all. Lilly's and Briannon's fuller lips, Ora's nose, Raven's forehead and chin and so on. Less popular and more unique heads of theirs like Zora are even more obvious, there's no hiding that nose shape with any amount of sliders and BoM addons. There are some face deformers on the market that would make heads rather different and looks more unique, but I almost never see anyone using those, and in rare cases I do it's some very "unique" appearance that barely looks like a Lel's head already.

Edited August 10, 2023 by steeljane42

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

It never was ahead of Gianni, ever. Jake's got a bit closer to Gianni now, but because of the initial difference it's still behind in total numbers detected. And probably will stay so considering that they are going to relelase male Gen X body at some point, which probably won't kill Jake's support right away especially if they'll keep it on 50% sale, but some creators will definitely swap to gen X at some point. And if it'll be the same story as with female gen X bodies, then some current Jake users will just swap to other bodies (probably Legacy), because Jake's support will be slowing down and gen X's will not pick up at all.

That if Belleza didn't learn their lesson (did they ever?). If they did and would offer some kind of an upgrade path for Jake users, and don't try to sell new male gen X body for 5.5k to begin with, then it might have a decent start. But knowing them and how they do things I wouldn't bet on it.

Here are late 2021's stats.

 

I'd say Avalon is actually the most versatile of all their heads they ever made, by (very) far. And despite that I said that you can still see it's Avalon; that's mostly because it's really everywhere and in such large numbers. Kinda like Catya in 2017-2018 was everywhere.

Lilly is less versatile (all their other heads are, although some more and some less) and you can also easily tell who got it on. Cheeks and lips are less flexible on it for sure, especially the latter.

It's mostly the matter of "experience" of checking them anyway. Do it often enough and you'll be able to see the unique traits on them all. Lilly's and Briannon's fuller lips, Ora's nose, Raven's forehead and chin and so on. Less popular and more unique heads of theirs like Zora are even more obvious, there's no hiding that nose shape with any amount of sliders and BoM addons. There are some face deformers on the market that would make it more different and looks more unique, but I almost never see anyone using those, and in rare cases I do it's some very "unique" appearance that barely looks like a Lel's head already.

I'll have to look at some of my old posts, but I could swear it was ahead Gianni early last year.. I wish i would have saved them dang things somewhere..

Edited August 10, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[steeljane42]

25 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'll have to look at some of my old posts, but I could swear it was ahead Gianni early last year.. I wish i would have saved them dang things somewhere..

It really wasn't, but it's okay, that's a lot of numbers to remember for so long and for no reason. If you check late 2021's stats you'll see Gianni at 24.4k, while Jake currently is at 26.6k. Given's Jake's growth of 2.5k+ in last 180 days alone it would mean it actually lost users for over 1 year in a row before recent growth, which it didn't.

But yeah, it got closer to Gianni since then for sure, by around ~3k.

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

It really wasn't, but it's okay, that's a lot of numbers to remember for so long and for no reason. If you check late 2021's stats you'll see Gianni at 24.4k, while Jake currently is at 26.6k. Given's Jake's growth of 2.5k+ in last 180 days alone it would mean it actually lost users for over 1 year in a row before recent growth, which it didn't.

But yeah, it got closer to Gianni since then for sure, by around ~3k.

I may be remembering it wrong and them being really close to each other at some point.. I remember them both in like the 20K's and real close to each other..

I don't know, I guess it really doesn't matter at the end of the day.. Today is what really counts when it all comes out in the wash anyways.. hehehe

I'm kind of glad  I gave up looking at those numbers.. it was getting addictive there for awhile.. lol

[Dorientje Woller]

Now, as nobody has it mentioned or made any concern about it: I do hope that this LaraX body has the same complexity impact on the pc system. That complexity is the main reason why I stick with the Maitreya body. It doesn't tank my experience while I am dj'ng, nor does it thanks the experiences of the people who visiting my sets.

[Anna Nova]

I'd just like to add to the 'why people buy XYZ head or body' debate.  I can't stand shops where the lighting blinds me with WHITE, this has stopped me from even getting a demo in several cases.  I arrive, I scream, I TP out.

[Salt Peppermint]

general stats about "grid snapshots" as in what body is worn most often , do not really say anything about how different stores sell certain sizes. Sales depend on so many different factors and a lot on the store's style as well as customer base and what kind of people they draw in. Which is why some stores have similar stats to certain body sizes and some absolutely not. Some sell Lara so well that it everyting after only comes with a gap (salewise), some sell other sizes way better up to the point that they could drop selling Lara at all. Same goes for male sizes . Because some stats say Gianni is before Jake, it does not mean that stores have the same experience in sales. going by those general stats, GenX is barely to be found. Must be all ghosts shopping in my store buying  GenX sizes, cause I certainly can't complain about those sales . I would have never kept body support if it would be just 5% of less. So I can only encourage each store to collect their own stats and focus on those.

[Anna Nova]

2 hours ago, Salt Peppermint said:

... So I can only encourage each store to collect their own stats and focus on those.

How do you collect stats on which body people buy the item for?  Almost all stores I shop at bundle all their sizes into each item.

Edit:Just been to your store and see your recent stuff is sold for individual bodies.  'Nuf said.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Anna Nova

[Orwar]

2 hours ago, Salt Peppermint said:

So I can only encourage each store to collect their own stats and focus on those.

   Whilst that makes sense, if a store decides to drop Maitreya for example, then that would make it so that anyone who uses Maitreya exclusively would never have a chance to become a customer, and those 5% of their existing customers are gone, and thus probably wouldn't participate in any future polls that store owner makes.

   I've noted a fair few stores that I 'know' don't rig for Maitreya, those are stores that I have no reason whatsoever to visit - and it's very possible some of them have since (or will, with Lara X) start rigging for Maitreya, I wouldn't know as their brand name is firmly etched into my mind as a no-go. Doesn't matter how many announcements they make in their in-world groups or social media with big, all-caps signs screaming 'NOW RIGGING FOR MAITREYA', I'm in none of those spaces to see it.

   It makes sense to drop a body which is obvious no one uses, I get why there aren't a lot of creators that bother with Geralt for example (although I'd argue the reason no one uses it was 'no one' made anything to wear with it to begin with). But I do think it prudent to keep an eye on those snapshots of what people actually wear, because Signature is still around and actively updating their bodies, and it's quite possible that it gets a second wind when people realise that Signature's bodies are the best by far, and those who think Gianni was too bulky had the Geralt option all along.

   As for all those extremely curvy bodies that have been trending for a while now, I reckon that fad will eventually die down as well. And then what are people going to be wearing?

[AmeliaJ08]

5 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

I'd just like to add to the 'why people buy XYZ head or body' debate.  I can't stand shops where the lighting blinds me with WHITE, this has stopped me from even getting a demo in several cases.  I arrive, I scream, I TP out.

As much as I love Doux...

 

I hate. HATE their store, good lord. I mean it just has all of the sins in one, that everything-white trend in body/head/hair stores though... make it stop. You can barely see where you are standing, objects in the distance are incredibly hard to determine their position and most people just crowd the landing pad because moving around in those environments is horrible.

That said I'm addicted to their hair so I clearly tolerate it.

Edited August 11, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[steeljane42]

1 hour ago, Anna Nova said:

How do you collect stats on which body people buy the item for?  Almost all stores I shop at bundle all their sizes into each item.

On top of alreadying finding how Salt (and some other who sell per body/addon) do that, some unpacker scripts that allow individual versions unpacking also "call home". There was a little flickr drama when someone found out about this a few years ago. Creators actually checking that or not ever bothering is another question, but the option is definitely there even for those who don't sell per body/size/addon. If one wants to avoid such "calls" those huds should be unpacked by rezzing them in the no-script areas.

1 hour ago, Orwar said:

As for all those extremely curvy bodies that have been trending for a while now, I reckon that fad will eventually die down as well. And then what are people going to be wearing?

Overabundance of curvy bodies will definitely die down, it already kinda does with Kupra being more dead than alive and many stores remove it from their rigging pool in favor of Reborn. Niche bodies like Peach and Erika are very much non factors, they exist and there is some clothing for them, but nothing else.

But I wouldn't call Reborn and having a market for more curvy/thick bodies a fad, it always was there. Freya was in the top 3 female bodies for a long long time, even Slink's HG was somewhat popular. But the former never got more popular (and eventually got completely killed) because of its creator, with how slow bento/bom/universal neck fit updates took, how unwilling to fix anything he/their team was (hands are still not fixed even on gen x bodies). And the latter, while somewhat curvy, is rather specific shape wise, and always had that "rougness" of Slink bodies.

In fact I'd say Kupra only got as popular as it did because people were starving for a new curvy body with some actual support, so it being released at the time when it was abandoned Freya, "weird" HG, and now that new Kupra body, or nothing at all was the deciding factor of it getting their year of popularity before a better body was released and it pretty much killed Kupra in a few months. Given the decent userbase of it there are still some creators who support it, but with ~250 new entries detected in the last 180 days it's almost on the verge of decline in total of its users, and that includes people who never log anymore.

And lastly, many creators swapped to reborn+legacy releases. The latter is hardly extremely curvy (it can be if someone wants to). And almost no one picked up Gen X curvy, which is, well, actually curvy. So it's mostly preferences of creators, and knowing their market like Salt mentioned above. A few smaller/mid sized creators I know who have dropped Maitreya in the last 1-1.5 years saw a little decline in their sales for a bit, but it did bounce back quickly, and they've saved a lot of time by not having to struggle with the current maitreya devkit (which LaraX should fix, so it might become worth of their time to rig for it again). So timeXmoneyXsanity combination was in favor of dropping it despite the massive userbase.

But yes, knowing your customers and their preferences is very important. I'd imagine of some casual/generic clothing creator like Blueberry or Addams dropped Maitreya they'd lose close to the half of their sales, and would get a lot of grief in social media, groups and IMs.

1 hour ago, Orwar said:

and it's quite possible that it gets a second wind when people realise that Signature's bodies are the best by far, and those who think Gianni was too bulky had the Geralt option all along.

It's a very subjective matter, what's the best for one is the worst for another, and vice versa. Some would call Maitreya the best female body by far a few months ago, too, while many others now will point on its angular butt, broken shoulders/armpits and say "nope", and then add "See, LaraX is going to fix it soon, because it really was bad." . For my personal tastes Gianni is not just bulky (it is, but that's somewhat fixable by shaping it better), but also has very weird torso and arms. Those are not fixable without redoing the mesh/rigging, and it would be a completely new body then, or at least something like GianniX. But some like it and see nothing wrong with it, and it's totally fine.

I still expect it to continue its slow decline, though. It's definitely became much faster lately, and unless there will be that second wind it'll only speed up even further, because the "less content>less users>even less content" trend is difficult to overcome.

And yes, I know it's not fun to see when your favorite body faces a decline for any reason. I knew/know some people who really liked Freya and they stuck with it for as long as they could, trying to ignore the fact they were missing on so many new releases, but eventually everyone have swapped to something else; Legacy, Kupra, later Reborn. What I also do know, however, is that none of them got/wears Gen X bodies despite endles 50% sales, as they had enough of that brand during Freya times.

Edited August 11, 2023 by steeljane42
typos

[Salt Peppermint]

2 hours ago, Orwar said:

   Whilst that makes sense, if a store decides to drop Maitreya for example, then that would make it so that anyone who uses Maitreya exclusively would never have a chance to become a customer, and those 5% of their existing customers are gone, and thus probably wouldn't participate in any future polls that store owner makes.

 

I believe that goes for any body a store decides to drop. In the end no one is able to cater to 1726378 bodies and their mods, especially if you work on your own. So you have to pick whatever works for your store and mostly for personal health. If a body is popular but you don't enjoy creating for it, don't do it. Frustration will creep in so fast and will be overwhelming.  And if that means that a certain body is not supported and you won't have those customers, then that's exactly that and it's perfectly fine imho.

[Psyche Starling]

5 hours ago, Salt Peppermint said:

general stats about "grid snapshots" as in what body is worn most often , do not really say anything about how different stores sell certain sizes. Sales depend on so many different factors and a lot on the store's style as well as customer base and what kind of people they draw in. Which is why some stores have similar stats to certain body sizes and some absolutely not. Some sell Lara so well that it everyting after only comes with a gap (salewise), some sell other sizes way better up to the point that they could drop selling Lara at all. Same goes for male sizes . Because some stats say Gianni is before Jake, it does not mean that stores have the same experience in sales. going by those general stats, GenX is barely to be found. Must be all ghosts shopping in my store buying  GenX sizes, cause I certainly can't complain about those sales . I would have never kept body support if it would be just 5% of less. So I can only encourage each store to collect their own stats and focus on those.

Yep! And as someone who bought GenX recently, support for it is a factor in whether I buy a new thing! Because I have enough clothes for Maitreya now that I could log into SL every day until the heat death of the universe and not run out of clothes. But I do need more clothes for GenX, so I seek it out. And if a Maitreya size comes with it too, I'm not going to toss it or anything, but finding stuff for it isn't currently a priority.

[Persephone Emerald]

3 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

And yes, I know it's not fun to see when your favorite body faces a decline for any reason. I knew/know some people who really liked Freya and they stuck with it for as long as they could, trying to ignore the fact they were missing on so many new releases, but eventually everyone have swapped to something else; Legacy, Kupra, later Reborn. What I also do know, however, is that none of them got/wears Gen X bodies despite endles 50% sales, as they had enough of that brand during Freya times.

I'm not a fashionista, but I still wear Freya and find plenty of (older) clothes for this body. Yes, I bought a Gen X Classic Lite when it was on sale, and No, I don't actually wear it. I stopped wearing Maitreya on my main avatar after I saw the bad shoulders and armpits, but it's good enough for my alts and I look forward to wearing Lara X when it becomes available.

It's a new body for free if you already bought Maitreya Lara, and many of our existing Lara clothes will probably still work with it. If they don't all work, that's ok with me, because I'll still have Freya and Lara Classic and plenty of clothes in my inventory.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Ceka Cianci]

14 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

As much as I love Doux...

 

I hate. HATE their store, good lord. I mean it just has all of the sins in one, that everything-white trend in body/head/hair stores though... make it stop. You can barely see where you are standing, objects in the distance are incredibly hard to determine their position and most people just crowd the landing pad because moving around in those environments is horrible.

That said I'm addicted to their hair so I clearly tolerate it.

I have to set a windlight to their store , otherwise my eyes go blurry.. I can't do really bright things like that on a monitor..

I forget which one I use since I haven't shopped there in awhile.. But it really helps finding the right lighting that knocks down the brightness  yet can still see the vendors well enough.. Then I just grab demos and take them home..

[Sabrina Nebula]

So...a lot of "ifs and maybes" on this thread 😬

How about just leaning back, eat cookies or popcorn and wait what's gonna happen? 

The only thing that really interests me is: when will Lara X be released? 

Have a beautiful sunday folks 👋😊

[Marianne Little]

1 minute ago, Sabrina Nebula said:

So...a lot of "ifs and maybes" on this thread 😬

How about just leaning back, eat cookies or popcorn and wait what's gonna happen? 

The only thing that really interests me is: when will Lara X be released? 

Have a beautiful sunday folks 👋😊

Dang, I saw the thread was updated and ran here in hope that somebody posted: "I got LaraX just now, and she is glorious"!

But no. 😔

I feel like a petulant child whining: Are we there yet? Arewethereyet? 🙀

[Sorciaa]

5 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Dang, I saw the thread was updated and ran here in hope that somebody posted: "I got LaraX just now, and she is glorious"!

But no. 😔

I feel like a petulant child whining: Are we there yet? Arewethereyet? 🙀

 

[Sabrina Nebula]

8 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Dang, I saw the thread was updated and ran here in hope that somebody posted: "I got LaraX just now, and she is glorious"!

But no. 😔

I feel like a petulant child whining: Are we there yet? Arewethereyet? 🙀

I'm currently sitting home with Covid and had to laugh so hard on this and then had to cough and laugh again 😂😭

I'm the same (are we there yet?) haha, I want that body asap 😭

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Sabrina Nebula said:

So...a lot of "ifs and maybes" on this thread 😬

How about just leaning back, eat cookies or popcorn and wait what's gonna happen? 

The only thing that really interests me is: when will Lara X be released? 

Have a beautiful sunday folks 👋😊

We could bet on when Lara X will come out. How about Labor Day weekend?

[Xyntia Amore]

23 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

We could bet on when Lara X will come out. How about Labor Day weekend?

I'm guessing Black Friday or thereabouts. Intoxicated with egg nog and pumpkin spice everything, people are primed to spend money before the winter holidays.

[mehllama]

Well, so much for Labor Day. But I defo hope before Black Friday. I make most of the uniforms for SLCS. I really don't want to invest on FP meshes that don't also include what someone referred to as "Lorax" earlier (still laughing), just for the sake of longevity. FP mesh tends to cost out the wazoo, especially the good stuff (as a rule). But to be honest, I just want to play with the new body and see what it and its HUD do. And also, it would be nice to save attachment points currently used by a shoulder deformer, an thigh deformer (maybe), the Petite add-on (which always attaches BEFORE the body, which means on me it de-petite's the body and I have to re-attach it). But of course, I'd rather Maitreya do it right than right away.