Mainland Pricing

[BilliJo Aldrin]

20 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

No banlines allowed, as already mentioned. And security is allowed, but no eject time can be shorter than 15 seconds.

This is so avatars who travel and accidentally get on a parcel, will have time to get off. And if they can't move out fast enough, they aren't sent home, but ejected to public land outside the plot.

Are someone really curious, they could get on the plot and zoom inside super fast, before ejected.

All this is to prevent sensitive people from seeing adult activity, but if they minded their own business, and didn’t try to get a peek, there would be nothing to see. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

So anyway, for anyone wanting to do the deed in their backyard, their home must be located on an adult sim, so hey LL, stop adding to that mainland blight known as beli, and start adding sims to Zindra, enough sims to break the lock that flippers have on adult parcels.

It can be done if LL has the will, but they don’t, so they won’t.

[Always Incognito]

Its not all about s-x either. I got ARed in Belli cos I had built an Embassy for peace and human rights, and inside a room i had placed Putin in a small jail. The house was open to public so That was the problem. A person wrote about it in the forum too and seemed very upset 😅 LL removed the stuff and i moved to mainland 😌

[Qie Niangao]

The Adult Content policy was written long before there was a Bellisseria (or even Linden Homes) so a ban on banlines never occurred to the authors. This policy, like all others, was and always will be a business instrument. It is stated with an engineered ambiguity, to give flexibility as business conditions evolve. Maybe they're interpreted differently now, post-Bellisseria. Maybe not.

The Lab has told us they intend to expand Zindra and we can speculate on the objectives of that expansion and what results to expect from it. That they're doing it at all, though, makes one thing pretty clear: Zindra is currently seen as a business success, and expansion is expected to build on that success in some way. 

I just have to say, though, a 25% expansion—or even doubling the total Zindra landmass—is not guaranteed to reduce land prices by any amount whatsoever. It would, if Zindra land were any normal market of supply and demand, but that is not my impression of what's happening there now, and hence not my expectation for what will happen after expansion.

[Marianne Little]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Simple question, yes or no. I have a nice house, the yard is fully equipped with adult furnishings. I don’t want ban lines and i don’t want to turnoff see inside parcel. Can I have this on a moderate sim?

As I read the rules: No. That is the simple answer.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now to the long blablah:

I think it is a half way around it.

Set it so only group* can use it. It is the animations that are adult, after all. No one can come and use it without you knowing. No one can go over there and have a fun time when you aren't there. No shocked witness will AR it.

* Or only owner can use it. Your friends in the group can be thoughtless. Unless the group is your rl partner?

It will be a problem, when you invite a friend over. You will use the adult animations? You have to turn off see inside parcel and turn on security/or ban lines for that intimate time.

Will it kill the mood? 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Marianne Little

[Tamara Adored]

I’m finding this whole discussion very enlightening. The whole ‘sex in M rated sims’ issue is something I’ve never really thought about & it’s interesting, & thought provoking trying to decipher the rules. In Bellisseria I’ve seen tons of outside adult furniture, a yard full of bondage equipment, lots of people having sex, group sex, loud (sim wide loud) sex, a brothel & a barn & house full of adult milking machines. I’ve lived on mainland on & off for 17 years in all ratings & seen the same sorts of things (I had a sex club next to me on a G rated sim). I never realised how big a problem it is or how vague the rules were. The only thing I’ve AR’d was the milking machines because of the lag it was creating. Sex is a huge part of SL & so it should be. It’s a huge part of the human experience & isn’t that while we are here? The experiences? Maybe it’s time LL grew with its client base & made the rules crystal clear. Yes, we need the adult areas as some experiences are not for everyone but people shouldn’t have to worry about being AR’d for fun times on their own property. More adult land is a must if the ambiguity continues, although I don’t think it will bring down prices. 

[Marianne Little]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

All this is to prevent sensitive people from seeing adult activity, but if they minded their own business, and didn’t try to get a peek, there would be nothing to see. 

I think LL will ignore an AR in such a case. The ones that got a glimpse was working hard to see it, it was no "coincidence".

 

[Marianne Little]

4 minutes ago, Tamara Adored said:

I’m finding this whole discussion very enlightening. The whole ‘sex in M rated sims’ issue is something I’ve never really thought about & it’s interesting, & thought provoking trying to decipher the rules. In Bellisseria I’ve seen tons of outside adult furniture, a yard full of bondage equipment, lots of people having sex, group sex, loud (sim wide loud) sex, a brothel & a barn & house full of adult milking machines. I’ve lived on mainland on & off for 17 years in all ratings & seen the same sorts of things (I had a sex club next to me on a G rated sim). I never realised how big a problem it is or how vague the rules were. The only thing I’ve AR’d was the milking machines because of the lag it was creating. Sex is a huge part of SL & so it should be. It’s a huge part of the human experience & isn’t that while we are here? The experiences? Maybe it’s time LL grew with its client base & made the rules crystal clear. Yes, we need the adult areas as some experiences are not for everyone but people shouldn’t have to worry about being AR’d for fun times on their own property. More adult land is a must if the ambiguity continues, although I don’t think it will bring down prices. 

If it is so much sex in public view in Bellisseria, and it goes on, it is because nobody report it. I doubt the moles have time to go around and inspect peoples yard furniture.🤣

People moved on. We are adults here, perhaps 1 of 100 would AR it. 

But if somebody filed an AR, with attached screenshots, the adult furniture would be returned with the message of why it was returned.

Would the owner set it out again and ignore the warning? Yes, he could. Unless it was AR'ed again, he would not hear more about it. If he continue to ignore the rules and the same person is caught repeatedly, I think it would be a limited time ban before a permanent ban.

I have no idea if this is correct. But it is the way LL deal with other break of rules in Bellisseria. Like extending your things out in public land and block others from using it. It is no "Bam, you are banned" with the first transgression.

@Abnor Mole?

[Love Zhaoying]

Well heck, I don't know if all this public sex will drive Mainland prices UP or DOWN!

Maybe if Belli was a little more relaxed, people would be fighting to move there in droves.

Or maybe not.

[Tamara Adored]

4 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

If it is so much sex in public view in Bellisseria, and it goes on, it is because nobody report it. I doubt the moles have time to go around and inspect peoples yard furniture.🤣

People moved on. We are adults here, perhaps 1 of 100 would AR it. 

But if somebody filed an AR, with attached screenshots, the adult furniture would be returned with the message of why it was returned.

Would the owner set it out again and ignore the warning? Yes, he could. Unless it was AR'ed again, he would not hear more about it. If he continue to ignore the rules and the same person is caught repeatedly, I think it would be a limited time ban before a permanent ban.

I have no idea if this is correct. But it is the way LL deal with other break of rules in Bellisseria. Like extending your things out in public land and block others from using it. It is no "Bam, you are banned" with the first transgression.

@Abnor Mole?

I don’t report it because it doesn’t bother me. The sim wide moaner, I took a look & was very disappointed with the animations 😀. It just seemed from other comments that there are some people who love to AR any hint of sex outside of adult sims. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

The Adult Content policy was written long before there was a Bellisseria (or even Linden Homes) so a ban on banlines never occurred to the authors. This policy, like all others, was and always will be a business instrument. It is stated with an engineered ambiguity, to give flexibility as business conditions evolve. Maybe they're interpreted differently now, post-Bellisseria. Maybe not.

The Lab has told us they intend to expand Zindra and we can speculate on the objectives of that expansion and what results to expect from it. That they're doing it at all, though, makes one thing pretty clear: Zindra is currently seen as a business success, and expansion is expected to build on that success in some way. 

I just have to say, though, a 25% expansion—or even doubling the total Zindra landmass—is not guaranteed to reduce land prices by any amount whatsoever. It would, if Zindra land were any normal market of supply and demand, but that is not my impression of what's happening there now, and hence not my expectation for what will happen after expansion.

flippers dont have infinatly deep pockets, they cant keep buying up adult parcels for ever. At some point they will not be able to grab all the new land, and everyone else will get a chance. Land on adult is expensive  because it is in short supply. triple the number of adult sims and the prices WILL drop. 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
changed some words

[BilliJo Aldrin]

37 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I think LL will ignore an AR in such a case. The ones that got a glimpse was working hard to see it, it was no "coincidence".

 

yes but do want to take a chance on LL ignoring its own rules?

[Qie Niangao]

29 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

flippers dont have infinatly deep pockets, they cant keep buying up adult parcels for ever. At some point they will not be able to grab all the new land, and everyone else will get a chance. Land on adult is expensive  because it is in short supply. triple the number of adult sims and the prices WILL drop. 

That would be true "if Zindra land were any normal market of supply and demand, but that is not my impression of what's happening there now".

IMHO, there's already no way flippers heads could be above water at anything like normal tier pricing, given the glacial pace of turnover and the relative dearth of rentals on those for sale parcels. And this has been going on for more than a decade. So either they aren't paying normal tier, or they have a practically infinite capacity for losing money.

On the rare occasion something actually sells, there is some mark-up from Zindra auction prices, but Zindra auctions aren't that cheap, leaving not nearly enough margin to cover tier the whole time they carry the land on inventory. I just can't see it working like a normal market.

[Marianne Little]

58 minutes ago, Tamara Adored said:

I don’t report it because it doesn’t bother me. The sim wide moaner, I took a look & was very disappointed with the animations 😀. It just seemed from other comments that there are some people who love to AR any hint of sex outside of adult sims. 

Yep, I understand what you meant.

And I suppose all others who saw and heard it isn't bothered either. Nothing happens unless they are AR'd.

[Marianne Little]

But people, all of you in the thread, are you not a bit too worried?

If someone AR you for having a fun time on the lawn, do you think you will be banned for life?

That sort of punishment involves child avatars as I have heard it. And then it does not matter if you are on adult land or not.

[Love Zhaoying]

If I ever catch someone humping on MY lawn, I'll just turn the garden hose on them like you'd do for a couple of dogs in heat!

Too bad the hose doesn't reach to the neighbor's lawn.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Robberinthemuseum]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

If it is so much sex in public view in Bellisseria, and it goes on, it is because nobody report it. I doubt the moles have time to go around and inspect peoples yard furniture.🤣

People moved on. We are adults here, perhaps 1 of 100 would AR it. 

But if somebody filed an AR, with attached screenshots, the adult furniture would be returned with the message of why it was returned.

Would the owner set it out again and ignore the warning? Yes, he could. Unless it was AR'ed again, he would not hear more about it. If he continue to ignore the rules and the same person is caught repeatedly, I think it would be a limited time ban before a permanent ban.

I have no idea if this is correct. But it is the way LL deal with other break of rules in Bellisseria. Like extending your things out in public land and block others from using it. It is no "Bam, you are banned" with the first transgression.

@Abnor Mole?

Instead of intruding on other residents' privacy, could you not simply block them so you can't see or hear them? It seems mean spirited to report someone for such a trivial thing considering all the other ............stuff in sl

[diamond Marchant]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

If I ever catch someone humping on MY lawn, I'll just turn the garden hose on them like you'd do for a couple of dogs in heat!

A few thoughts....

1. Love, what if they invited you to a FMAT (furry menage a trois)?

2. There is always karma. Once upon a time, there was an (advertising) sex club in the Moderate region where I had a parcel. When they were into it, the region got very laggy... so I ARed them, as did my neighbor. Governance eventually busted them (just made them stop doing the sex club) but also made me take scripts out of seasonal trees and stuff.

3. Governance is a black box... as far as I can tell, they never explain why they do what they do.

4. For land encroachment issues (e.g. into protected water or land), sometimes they take no action even though there is an obvious violation. @Abnor Mole often says just because you can do something, that doesn't mean you should do it. (btw in Belli, if you encroach, make it look like what Moles build)

5. Personally, I would not AR a single transient incident, like humping on MY lawn. But I would AR an advertised or commercial sex business in a Moderate region.

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

A few thoughts....

1. Love, what if they invited you to a FMAT (furry menage a trois)?

I've been in Second Life 16 years. Never done a 3-some. Not interested. 

[Katherine Heartsong]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I've been in Second Life 16 years. Never done a 3-some. Not interested. 

Alts. Alts are the answer.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

So obviously, the consensus is that there is something special and unusual about the land market on Zindra.

Here are two scenarios for comment.

1) Suppose tomorrow LL said, thats, it, no more adult land, its all moderate now. What would happen to land prices on Zindra?

2) Suppose tomorrow LL said, we are done with moderate, from now on, all moderate land is adult. What would happen to land prices on Zindra now?

And, what would happen to land prices on the rest of mainland?

 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

On 7/26/2023 at 6:29 AM, Always Incognito said:

Its not all about s-x either. I got ARed in Belli cos I had built an Embassy for peace and human rights, and inside a room i had placed Putin in a small jail. The house was open to public so That was the problem. A person wrote about it in the forum too and seemed very upset 😅 LL removed the stuff and i moved to mainland 😌

That totally sucks. I had some of my decor on my parcel on Zindra returned one time. Luckily my building wasn’t fully linked, or I’d have logged in to see an empty lot with my furniture sitting in mid air 😂

But yes all it takes is one whiner to mess you up, and they might not even do it because they are offended in some way, its because they know you broke some rule or other, and they just do it to ruin your day.

Edited July 27, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
fixed a word

[Zalificent Corvinus]

On 7/26/2023 at 2:03 PM, Qie Niangao said:

That would be true "if Zindra land were any normal market of supply and demand, but that is not my impression of what's happening there now".

IMHO, there's already no way flippers heads could be above water at anything like normal tier pricing, given the glacial pace of turnover and the relative dearth of rentals on those for sale parcels. And this has been going on for more than a decade. So either they aren't paying normal tier, or they have a practically infinite capacity for losing money.

On the rare occasion something actually sells, there is some mark-up from Zindra auction prices, but Zindra auctions aren't that cheap, leaving not nearly enough margin to cover tier the whole time they carry the land on inventory. I just can't see it working like a normal market.

There seems to be this mad assumption that Land Barons "are loasing money hand over fist, i's a tax write off, and they get special rates, cos we can'ty figure how they hold onto land for so long, the tier would kill them IMOHO".

The problem is, none of the people saying this nonsense actually know any Land Barons, and basically have no clue how anything works.

 

Take a Fictional Land Baron.

His Excellency Baron Greedygutz von Laandenflippen.

The Baron is currently on the 100 Full Effing Regions tier band, all of which is owned through his bussiness land group, "von Laandenflippen Properties".

The 100 full effing regions of tier paid land is almost exclusively boring G & M rated drek, for sale or rent, and more or less breaks evven, thanks to tier band differentials.

The cost to Joe Nobody for a 4096, is $22 a month. The Baron pays $165 a month for 16 x 4096, or $10 and change per 4096, he can rent them out for $16 a month undercutting tier prices for ordinary home owners, and still make money on each parcel rented out.

Here's the crunch...

That 100 Full Effing Regions of Tier paid boring G & M rated break even land, gets the Baron 10 Full Effing regions worth of 100% Tier FREE group bonus land.

The Baron can buy two Zindran A rated 4096's a week, flip them for a $240 profit, and sit on them for a year, at no tier cost, until somebody buys them, on average he buys 2 a week, on average he waits a year to find a buyer, on average he sells 2 a week, on average he makes $240 profit per parcel, that's $480 a week, or $24,000 a year.

 

And that's just the "short term investments, there's still plenty of tier free land allowance to use for medium 2-4 year investments in Horizons, Bay City and Nautilus, and a few choice LONG term investments, like that nice waterfront parcel on the north coast of Satori facing onto the Southern Nautilus Straight, that he picked up for $500, 12 years ago, and sold last week for $3500.

 

That's how these people make money buying and selling in bulk, and keeping the slower to sell, higher profit plots as part of their massive amounts of tier free group bonus land.

And this doesn't include the earnings from renting out those higher priced parcels, typically a Horizons plot can bring in enough rental money to pay the tier, repay the aquisition cost over a few years, and make a profit, and they can STILL sell it for $600-$1200 if a buyer shows up.

 

There is no special tier discount, no losing money hand over fist, no tax write off. Land Barons MAKE money by knowing how the system actually works, and having the capital to exploit that.

[Love Zhaoying]

20 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Alts. Alts are the answer.

Couldn't possibly work, similar to "you can't tickle yourself!"

[Qie Niangao]

44 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Land Barons MAKE money by knowing how the system actually works, and having the capital to exploit that.

Horizons, yes. Bay City, yes. Nautilus City, yes. But I see them turn over. Meanwhile I watch vast swaths of Zindra stay yellow for years and years, unrented and unsold. Zindra is different.