Mainland Pricing

[Marianne Little]

I for one, was happy to rent in the places with double prims.

The price of those plots is crazy, but renting is affordable. It gives me much more freedom to use houses, trees and furniture. I do not have to count every prim.

I can not understand why LL stopped making them!!

No cutting up parcels allowed? A benefit since there will be no weird small parcels. Roads and canals? Great, they separate parcels so the neighbor is not wall-to wall. No terraforming? Uh, I miss that, I admit it. The other benefits weigh up for that.

Making more Zindra adult land will be more expensive land. 😢

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The question about adult activity in Bellisseria has been raised several times in that forum, and several times moles and lindens reply: It is allowed inside the walls and close the windows. And have parcels set so no one outside can see what avatars do.

People who wander in on the parcel and use the camera to look in, are not your fault. No adult activity visible from outside = you get no problem with LL.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

37 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I for one, was happy to rent in the places with double prims.

The price of those plots is crazy, but renting is affordable. It gives me much more freedom to use houses, trees and furniture. I do not have to count every prim.

I can not understand why LL stopped making them!!

No cutting up parcels allowed? A benefit since there will be no weird small parcels. Roads and canals? Great, they separate parcels so the neighbor is not wall-to wall. No terraforming? Uh, I miss that, I admit it. The other benefits weigh up for that.

Making more Zindra adult land will be more expensive land. 😢

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The question about adult activity in Bellisseria has been raised several times in that forum, and several times moles and lindens reply: It is allowed inside the walls and close the windows. And have parcels set so no one outside can see what avatars do.

People who wander in on the parcel and use the camera to look in, are not your fault. No adult activity visible from outside = you get no problem with LL.

you aren’t allowed to keep strangers off your property on beli? anyone can just walk in?

as for expensive adult land, flood the market with new adult sims, land flippers dont have infinatly deep pockets, sooner or later, with enough new adult sims, the price will drop to similar to moderate.

Throttled supply keeps the price of adult land high, not some perceived advantages. 

[Hunny Bunny]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I'm thinking the visual enclosure is really the only thing that will actually prevent an Abuse Report, and probably all that's actually needed. The prudes seem likely to take "closed doors" very literally.

I must express my concern regarding having a home on a moderate parcel instead of an adult parcel. As we know, banlines are not permitted in Bellisseria, making it impossible to achieve the desired level of "behind closed doors" security. While visual enclosures can be utilized inside the house, skybox, or barn, it is not aesthetically pleasing to enclose the entire ground-level parcel and is not possible in Bellisseria. Consequently, various outdoor amenities such as patio furniture, swimming pools, hot tubs, saunas, beach blankets, pool floats, rugs, and even vehicles like floats and boats outside of a houseboat are all off-limits for privacy considerations.

The most practical option remaining is turning off avatar visibility, as it is available on all land types. However, it poses a question we cannot answer definitively: "Does 'every reasonable effort' necessitate all three measures?" Without an official written clarification, interpretation becomes the only recourse. In my opinion, having a 1024m parcel where only 1/3 or 1/2 can be fully utilized inside the house and even less in the case of a 2048m house is unreasonable. It results in people building ground-level skyboxes to enclose their entire parcel, which may not be an ideal solution for everyone.

 

In my view, this places an unjust burden on the parcel owner, requiring them to use security measures not primarily for their own protection, but to shield the general public from potential exposure. It feels like locking the parcel owner inside a cage, restricting their freedom to fully utilize the parcel they have paid for. Negotiating around these sensitive issues becomes a constant challenge, preventing us from fully enjoying our parcel as we wish. All these constraints could be effortlessly avoided if the parcel were situated in an adult region.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

27 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

As we know, banlines are not permitted in Bellisseria, making it impossible to achieve the desired level of "behind closed doors" security.

I thought you could set your parcel as in:

28 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

The most practical option remaining is turning off avatar visibility, as it is available on all land types.

If turning off avatar visibility, plus adding security (without Ban lines), is not sufficient for "behind closed doors" security, then I am missing your point somehow.

People can't see you naked and/or boinking if you turn off "avatar visibility".

[Hunny Bunny]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I thought you could set your parcel as in:

If turning off avatar visibility, plus adding security (without Ban lines), is not sufficient for "behind closed doors" security, then I am missing your point somehow.

People can't see you naked and/or boinking if you turn off "avatar visibility".

The question remains,  "Does 'every reasonable effort' necessitate all three measures?".

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

The question remains,  "Does 'every reasonable effort' necessitate all three measures?".

Ah, ok. I did see it in your post but did not realize it was the "core" of your question.

Going back to the quoted post to find all three measures:

What does "behind closed doors" mean?

Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means:

• Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel. If it is group-access only, the group must not be freely open to join.
• Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel.
• Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers.

The first measure seems common-sense.  Just hiding avatars isn't enough if people can simply walk onto your parcel and see things that are "reportable".

The third measure seems odd to me. Unless you have visible pornographic materials (pictures, sculptures, etc.) visible from the outside which could be reported. Otherwise, I don't see why this is needed: Nobody would have a reason to report you if they cannot see anything "reportable". 

 

[Hunny Bunny]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Ah, ok. I did see it in your post but did not realize it was the "core" of your question.

Going back to the quoted post to find all three measures:

What does "behind closed doors" mean?

Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means:

• Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel. If it is group-access only, the group must not be freely open to join.
• Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel.
• Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers.

The first measure seems common-sense.  Just hiding avatars isn't enough if people can simply walk onto your parcel and see things that are "reportable".

The third measure seems odd to me. Unless you have visible pornographic materials (pictures, sculptures, etc.) visible from the outside which could be reported. Otherwise, I don't see why this is needed: Nobody would have a reason to report you if they cannot see anything "reportable". 

 

An important aspect to consider is how interactions with neighbors can sometimes become complicated. While you may have harmonious relationships with most of them, there's a potential for issues when dealing with individuals who harbor resentment due to rejection or past relationships. In some cases, these individuals might misuse the platform's rules as a means of griefing.

They may meticulously follow the rules, seeking the slightest infraction to lodge abuse reports against you. This leaves your fate in the hands of governance, who will have to assess the situation and determine appropriate action.

[Fionalein]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Otherwise, I don't see why this is needed: Nobody would have a reason to report you if they cannot see anything "reportable".

One word: Pilots

On mainland your area access limitation is restricted to the first 30m above ground or so. Users can fly overs this limited space and will see what you do when looking down. If you want a naughty outdoor pool you must limit yourself to adult parcels - which affects their pricing.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

An important aspect to consider is how interactions with neighbors can sometimes become complicated. While you may have harmonious relationships with most of them, there's a potential for issues when dealing with individuals who harbor resentment due to rejection or past relationships. In some cases, these individuals might misuse the platform's rules as a means of griefing.

They may meticulously follow the rules, seeking the slightest infraction to lodge abuse reports against you. This leaves your fate in the hands of governance, who will have to assess the situation and determine appropriate action.

Sure. But if a neighbor reports you for "things people can see", they would need to provide a screen shot of those "things" for it to be a somewhat valid report. And if there's really nothing to report, then you really have nothing to worry about.

If you DID use some kind of "enclosure", then they'd report THAT.

A Karen's gonna Karen.

[Hunny Bunny]

22 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sure. But if a neighbor reports you for "things people can see", they would need to provide a screen shot of those "things" for it to be a somewhat valid report. And if there's really nothing to report, then you really have nothing to worry about.

If you DID use some kind of "enclosure", then they'd report THAT.

A Karen's gonna Karen.

This is why I maintain that adding more adult land in Second Life would bring forth numerous benefits. It would establish distinct boundaries between areas where adult content is allowed and regions with more general content. This clear demarcation would reduce ambiguity and potential misunderstandings, creating a safer and more comfortable environment for all users.

Residents on adult land would enjoy heightened privacy and freedom to express themselves without the burden of excessive security measures. They could freely engage in adult activities without fear of unintentional infractions that might lead to reports or conflicts with neighbors.

The creation of dedicated adult regions would cater specifically to users who prefer adult content, providing spaces where like-minded individuals and communities can come together. This sense of community would undoubtedly lead to higher satisfaction and engagement as people find and connect with others who share their interests and preferences.

Having these adult regions clearly defined would enable improved enforcement of guidelines, ensuring that adult content remains confined to its designated spaces. This could potentially help in mitigating griefing issues, as the content would be restricted to appropriate areas with willing participants, reducing the misuse of platform rules to target specific individuals.

Expanding adult spaces benefits not only those who engage in adult activities but also those who prefer not to participate in such content. By creating more dedicated adult regions, individuals who choose to engage in adult activities would be relocated away from those who don't have an interest in them. This separation allows for a more tailored approach to user preferences, offering zones for general, moderate, and adult content based on individual needs.

Having a one-size-fits-all approach may not be truly beneficial, considering the diverse interests and preferences of Second Life users. Instead, having distinct zones for different content types ensures that everyone can find a space that aligns with their comfort level and desired experiences.

The current situation highlights an imbalance, with a surplus of abandoned general and moderate land across the grid while adult space remains scarce and disproportionately overpriced. Therefore, the demand for more adult land becomes evident to address this discrepancy and provide a better balance between the different content categories.

 

[Rowan Amore]

Just show this to your nosy neighbors...

On 11/29/2021 at 12:45 PM, Abnor Mole said:

For the most part, as long as adult activities are done privately and discreetly within the concept of "behind closed doors", there isn't much necessity of an adult region rating. The only reason you would need an adult region is if it was an adult themed club open to the public or an adult content business, both of which are already not allowed in Bellisseria because those would be commercial. 

 

[Hunny Bunny]

33 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Just show this to your nosy neighbors...

 

The Linden Department of Public Works (LDPW) is a program dedicated to enhancing the experience of residents on the Linden Mainland. The LDPW employs teams of Resident builders, artists, and scripters, affectionately known as the Moles, to create new content and improvements on behalf of Linden Lab, benefiting all users. However, it's important to note that the Moles are not part of the governance team and their opinions may not carry the same weight as official Linden Lab guidelines or policies.

While Abnor Mole's statement offers some insights, it may not be sufficient to address issues with a neighbor who holds animosity towards you, especially if you have faced suspension from the platform due to their actions.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Just show this to your nosy neighbors...

 

referencing your quote by Abner Mole, some of us dont want to do it quietly and discreetly, and some of us cant be bothered with all the required layers to protect the sensibilities of the faint of heart, who if they werent camming me in the first place, would have nothing to be offended by,  so its an AR waiting to happen.

No thanks, i’ll stick to adult.

That reminds me of another pet peeve of mine, self entitled child avatars.

I tped to my sister one time, who happened to have her kid with her. I was wearing a top where the tiniest sliver of nipple was showing. The kid imed me and said, you better cover that up, I’m a kid you know.

I thought, you little creep, you had to cam in real close to see that didn’t you.

Thats why I ban child avatars on sight from all my properties, they are generally nothing but trouble.

Edited July 25, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
fixed a word

[danababy69]

5 hours ago, Hunny Bunny said:

This is why I maintain that adding more adult land in Second Life would bring forth numerous benefits. It would establish distinct boundaries between areas where adult content is allowed and regions with more general content. This clear demarcation would reduce ambiguity and potential misunderstandings, creating a safer and more comfortable environment for all users.

Residents on adult land would enjoy heightened privacy and freedom to express themselves without the burden of excessive security measures. They could freely engage in adult activities without fear of unintentional infractions that might lead to reports or conflicts with neighbors.

The creation of dedicated adult regions would cater specifically to users who prefer adult content, providing spaces where like-minded individuals and communities can come together. This sense of community would undoubtedly lead to higher satisfaction and engagement as people find and connect with others who share their interests and preferences.

Having these adult regions clearly defined would enable improved enforcement of guidelines, ensuring that adult content remains confined to its designated spaces. This could potentially help in mitigating griefing issues, as the content would be restricted to appropriate areas with willing participants, reducing the misuse of platform rules to target specific individuals.

Expanding adult spaces benefits not only those who engage in adult activities but also those who prefer not to participate in such content. By creating more dedicated adult regions, individuals who choose to engage in adult activities would be relocated away from those who don't have an interest in them. This separation allows for a more tailored approach to user preferences, offering zones for general, moderate, and adult content based on individual needs.

Having a one-size-fits-all approach may not be truly beneficial, considering the diverse interests and preferences of Second Life users. Instead, having distinct zones for different content types ensures that everyone can find a space that aligns with their comfort level and desired experiences.

The current situation highlights an imbalance, with a surplus of abandoned general and moderate land across the grid while adult space remains scarce and disproportionately overpriced. Therefore, the demand for more adult land becomes evident to address this discrepancy and provide a better balance between the different content categories.

 

this is by far the most rational and logical thing, anyone has said on the topic, if you can disagree with anythin said here, you are advocatin for confusion, chaos, and a world where all that exists is grey areas, that could or could not lead to you bein unjustly prosecuted for adult activity.. this whole 'sterilise the world to suit me, cus i'm so infantile, i cant live in a world, that contains that which makes me uncomfortable, so rules must be put in place that punish the collective, and satisfy only me' issue would be sorted as well, with the adult rated sims and regions, the Adult ratin itself would serve as the warnin, that 'hey, unless you want to see adult material do not venture beyond this point as this is an adult activity protected area'.. the M ratin, is not safe, is not protected, the 'behind closed doors' thing only works in instances where people know how to utilise all the security measures offered, noobs who want to get freaky are not gonna know how to utilise all the security measures necessary to protect themselves against a peeper who reports them for adult activity in an M rated sim. the grey area is too vast, we need clear  concise rules, areas dedicated specifically for this and that, so that people who want it, can find it, and people who dont can avoid it.. it's pretty cut and dry.. and simple.. if you want your sterile world, where there is less adult activity visible, then you need the adult regions, dedicated to house the safe and protected adult activity.. M is entirely too much a grey area.. that's all to say that the A ratin doesnt only cover sexual content it covers a vast array of other content that would not be permitted on an M or G rated sim.. the list of potentials, that could get you in trouble start to grow, the more you lookit, what can be done in an A rated sim and what can be done in an M rated sim.. the idea is to grant homes to those who engage in adult activity, so that your entire userbase is represented, and not marginalised, and are able to be themselves, and engage in the thingers that allow them to maximally express who they are  in a safe and protected environment free of of the fetters of conviction via this medium.. people come here to live vicariously through an avatars. it  is called Second Life, you can live an entire second life here.. it's a safe place to live out fantasies you otherwise would never live out in RL because of the vast dangers such actions and consequences would have in the real world.. if i want to sleep with half the world, i can do so here, and not worry about STD's, UTI's, pregnancy, etc. if i want to be godzilla and destroy a city i can, and never actually harm anyone in the process, if i want to play a bank robber, i can do so without ever actually robbin a bank, it is the perfect hyperbolic existence.. there is nothin you cannot do, or be.. why are we tryin to limit or stifle this, by sterilisin the world of adult regions, that would ultimately make it safer for all it's users anyways

Edited July 25, 2023 by danababy69

[diamond Marchant]

6 hours ago, Hunny Bunny said:

This is why I maintain that adding more adult land in Second Life would bring forth numerous benefits. It would establish distinct boundaries between areas where adult content is allowed and regions with more general content. This clear demarcation would reduce ambiguity and potential misunderstandings, creating a safer and more comfortable environment for all users.

I believe the following is true...

1. Adult regions in Zindra exist and many parcels are currently for sale. Because land flippers exist, should LL add more adult regions, they would likely be purchased, subdivided, and resold. Not clear that the casual land buyer would be paying significantly less per sqm that what is currently available.

2. LL expects that residents will do adult activities on Moderate rated regions. This is why they TELL YOU how to do it in their official policies.

3. The process for shutting down non-conforming adult activities on Moderate regions is the Abuse Report. This requires a resident to file a report AND for Governance to accept it as probable, investigate, and provide a remedy or NOT. This is a subjective process. The current adult policies give Governance some leeway in making decisions.

4. The primary difference between Adult and Moderate regions with respect to adult activity concerns what can be done IN PUBLIC (and also the commercial thing). LL is fully supportive of adult activity and, over the decades, has attempted to have policies that strike a compromise between the needs of different communities. This is the reason for Adult, Moderate, and General ratings.

5. diamond is NOT a LL shill.

An opinion...

I think it's OK that a resident purchasing a Moderate parcel pays less than a similar sized (and located) Adult parcel. For example, L$1024 vs L$6144. For the extra L$5,120 (or 20$US), you can get jiggy with it in broad daylight. Tier is the same so it's just a ONE TIME payment. Might you not pay that amount on a monthly basis to an OnlyFans creator? Don't be cheap!

 

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Hunny Bunny said:

The Linden Department of Public Works (LDPW) is a program dedicated to enhancing the experience of residents on the Linden Mainland. The LDPW employs teams of Resident builders, artists, and scripters, affectionately known as the Moles, to create new content and improvements on behalf of Linden Lab, benefiting all users. However, it's important to note that the Moles are not part of the governance team and their opinions may not carry the same weight as official Linden Lab guidelines or policies.

While Abnor Mole's statement offers some insights, it may not be sufficient to address issues with a neighbor who holds animosity towards you, especially if you have faced suspension from the platform due to their actions.

Yeah, pretty sure if it were not true, Patch would have addressed it in that thread.

Since it's also stated as such in the maturity guidelines, I'm not sure what exactly your nosy neighbor could AR you for but ok.  

[BilliJo Aldrin]

7 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I believe the following is true...

1. Adult regions in Zindra exist and many parcels are currently for sale. Because land flippers exist, should LL add more adult regions, they would likely be purchased, subdivided, and resold. Not clear that the casual land buyer would be paying significantly less per sqm that what is currently available.

2. LL expects that residents will do adult activities on Moderate rated regions. This is why they TELL YOU how to do it in their official policies.

3. The process for shutting down non-conforming adult activities on Moderate regions is the Abuse Report. This requires a resident to file a report AND for Governance to accept it as probable, investigate, and provide a remedy or NOT. This is a subjective process. The current adult policies give Governance some leeway in making decisions.

4. The primary difference between Adult and Moderate regions with respect to adult activity concerns what can be done IN PUBLIC (and also the commercial thing). LL is fully supportive of adult activity and, over the decades, has attempted to have policies that strike a compromise between the needs of different communities. This is the reason for Adult, Moderate, and General ratings.

5. diamond is NOT a LL shill.

An opinion...

I think it's OK that a resident purchasing a Moderate parcel pays less than a similar sized (and located) Adult parcel. For example, L$1024 vs L$6144. For the extra L$5,120 (or 20$US), you can get jiggy with it in broad daylight. Tier is the same so it's just a ONE TIME payment. Might you not pay that amount on a monthly basis to an OnlyFans creator? Don't be cheap!

 

i think you are wrong about the price difference. if there were as many vacant adult sims as moderate, prices would be similar. As i said before, scarcity drives up the price, not the fact you can do the deed anywhere you want. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

and you dont need to add 500 adult sims, just keep adding sims until the flippers run out of money. thats where they effed up with horizons, they stopped adding sims way too soon

flippers wanna buy up all of horizons, ok here is another 500 sims for you, knock yourselves out

it is possible to break the flippers

Edited July 25, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
added stuff

[Fionalein]

4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

it is possible to break the flippers

Why would they? Flippers guarantee the tier bill gets payed. Once the Flippers are broken LL would end up with the two adult continents as abandoned as M/G rated mainland. For now the flippers gladly pay the server bills knowing they can hand down the costs with interests to those purchasing parcels. That's plain old Capitalism at work. Adult pixel entertainment is a luxury commodity after all. That is the situation we are in now - while we both would prefer cheaper parcels there is nothing inherently bad with it though.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

7 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Why would they? Flippers guarantee the tier bill gets payed. Once the Flippers are broken LL would end up with the two adult continents as abandoned as M/G rated mainland. For now the flippers gladly pay the server bills knowing they can hand down the costs with interests to those purchasing parcels. That's plain old Capitalism at work. Adult pixel entertainment is a luxury commodity after all. That is the situation we are in now - while we both would prefer cheaper parcels there is nothing inherently bad with it though.

flippers wont be able to demand exorbitant prices if there is a glut of land available. its the free market at work

[BilliJo Aldrin]

just imagine so many adult sims that flippers cant afford the tier. that means you and I can ask LL to sell us a parcel, just like on general and moderate. 

the only difference is scarcity, eliminate the scarcity and the price difference will disappear

[danababy69]

this is no way, shape, or form, some deep science that needs solvin.. it's plain as day, the sims with the highest traffic per capita, beyond any shadow of any doubt is adult sims..

increased availability would definitely decrease price. a cost/demand scenario is what you're lookin it.

availability of Adult regions, are about more than the ability to engage in sex, avoidin nosy neighbours and so on.. it is about the guaranteed protection, and privacy of your area, to do and be anythin without the fear of grey areas you could be held accountable to.. the limit of what you can do with an M sim versus what you can do, with an adult one really is the difference between bein reported for a phallic water fountain outside, and not

Edited July 25, 2023 by danababy69

[Rowan Amore]

Horizons double.prim allowance would.jack.up.prices regardless.of maturity rating.  That's my main reason for buying there.  I'd still own it if it were Moderate.

[Rowan Amore]

49 minutes ago, danababy69 said:

it is about the guaranteed protection, and privacy of your area,

This might be why every single adult place I go to is on a Private island and not Zindra.  The Island costs $209 a month.  Your own covenant.  Terraform all you'd like.  You can also rent on an adult commercial island.  

Even if you could get full region in Zindra, LL would only be getting $166 per month.  They really have no incentive to add more mainland adult regions as far as I can see.

[Hunny Bunny]

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

LL expects that residents will do adult activities on Moderate rated regions. This is why they TELL YOU how to do it in their official policies.

 

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Since it's also stated as such in the maturity guidelines, I'm not sure what exactly your nosy neighbor could AR you for but ok.  

Based on the three known requirements of the "behind closed doors" policy - limiting parcel access, turning off avatar visibility, and using visual barriers — we have confirmed that limiting parcel access is not possible on Bellisseria does it still apply to the rest of the mainland? 

Should we fully enclose the pool area or other outdoor furniture with a visible barrier? Considering a walk around the mainland reveals numerous structures built on ground level, covering the entire parcel in an effort to comply with the "behind closed doors" policy or conversely, to obscure the view of ground-level or low-hanging skyboxes used by others to adhere to the same policy. This situation is not encountered on Bellisseria since enclosing the entire parcel is not allowed, does it still apply to the rest of the mainland?

We do have the option to turn off parcel visibility on both Bellisseria and the mainland, but the question that remains is whether that is sufficient to satisfy the "behind closed doors" policy. If that is all that is required why are there three requirements and not just one?