Mainland Pricing

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

This ambiguity is precisely why so many people err on the side of caution and choose to live on adult rated land.

 

But the ToS doesn't define where it's not allowed at all.  It doesn't specify Zindra or Adult private estates.  It just says Host any activity that is sexually explicit.

If you go by US code, that would mean all depictions of sex?  It does say actual or simulated...

18 U.S. Code § 2256 - Definitions for chapter | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

[Hunny Bunny]

13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

But the ToS doesn't define where it's not allowed at all.

If the "it" you're referring to is any activity that is sexually explicit then it does define where it's not allowed at all.

A region designated General is not allowed to advertise or make available content or activity that is sexually explicit, violent, or depicts nudity.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Hunny Bunny said:

If the "it" you're referring to is any activity that is sexually explicit then it does define where it's not allowed at all.

A region designated General is not allowed to advertise or make available content or activity that is sexually explicit, violent, or depicts nudity.

I'm referring to the ToS.  We've been told before that when in doubt, refer back to ToS.  Their ToS, Terms and Conditions and Community standards all say something different.  They don't define at all, Except such Adult Content as MAY be permitted in Second Life.  Who decides that?  Where is the list?  What does LL consider explicit content?  It's rather ambiguous IMO.

 

Except such Adult Content as may be permitted in Second Life, Prohibited Content (as further described below) may not be shared, posted or otherwise transmitted through our service under any circumstances.

Examples of Prohibited Content include:

Content involving illegality, such as piracy, criminal activity, terrorism, obscenity, child pornography, gambling, and illegal drug use.

Infringing or unauthorized content, such as content that you did not create or do not have permission to use.

Cruel or hateful content that could harm, harass, promote or condone violence against, or that is primarily intended to incite hatred of, animals, or individuals or groups based on race or ethnic origin, religion, nationality, disability, gender, age, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity.

Intensely violent or graphic content that could be construed as primarily intended to be shocking, sensational, or disrespectful.

Sexually explicit content.

Content that promotes or could be construed as primarily intended to evade limitations on Prohibited Content.

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

regarding the quote by Patch, its against the rules to have adult activities on your property outside of you house. there needs to be two levels of protection, turn off see into parcel, and only do it inside your house. 

so on moderate you cant do it on a lounge chair beside your backyard pool, even with a 10 ft high privacy fence.

in fact are objects that contain adult even allowed outside?

the whole thing screams we are going to cater to the most restrictive, uptight members of our community, so really, lets not hear about what is permitted on moderate, better to just play it safe and go to adult land.

and another thing, photo realistic decor isnt allowed anywhere on moderate land.

[Hunny Bunny]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'm referring to the ToS.  We've been told before that when in doubt, refer back to ToS.  Their ToS, Terms and Conditions and Community standards all say something different.  They don't define at all, Except such Adult Content as MAY be permitted in Second Life.  Who decides that?  Where is the list?  What does LL consider explicit content?  It's rather ambiguous IMO.

 

Except such Adult Content as may be permitted in Second Life, Prohibited Content (as further described below) may not be shared, posted or otherwise transmitted through our service under any circumstances.

Examples of Prohibited Content include:

Content involving illegality, such as piracy, criminal activity, terrorism, obscenity, child pornography, gambling, and illegal drug use.

Infringing or unauthorized content, such as content that you did not create or do not have permission to use.

Cruel or hateful content that could harm, harass, promote or condone violence against, or that is primarily intended to incite hatred of, animals, or individuals or groups based on race or ethnic origin, religion, nationality, disability, gender, age, veteran status, or sexual orientation/gender identity.

Intensely violent or graphic content that could be construed as primarily intended to be shocking, sensational, or disrespectful.

Sexually explicit content.

Content that promotes or could be construed as primarily intended to evade limitations on Prohibited Content.

 

I agree and that's why I stated previously:

 

[Hunny Bunny]

As I see it, actions that fall under the definition of "sexually explicit conduct" as provided https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2256 are generally not allowed in regions designated as General or Moderate. These regions are intended to be family-friendly or suitable for most non-adult activities, respectively. Thus, sexually explicit content or activities, as referenced previously in the link, are not permitted in General or Moderate regions.  

Although, it has been stated many times on these forums and elsewhere that adult activities are allowed on moderate regions "behind closed doors" as a reason that we don't "need" adult Linden homes. Even if someone from Linden Lab were to say in a community forum that adult content is allowed on moderate-rated land, but it still contradicts what is stated in the Terms of Service (ToS), it would be more prudent to place faith in the written policy outlined in the ToS. The ToS is an official and legally binding document that governs the rules and guidelines for using the Second Life platform. This is why I say err on the side of caution.

Regions designated as Adult are intended for hosting and conducting such sexually explicit content or activities. These regions are the appropriate areas where residents can engage in adult-oriented themes and conduct. The Adult designation allows for a more permissive environment that aligns with adult interests and preferences.

Therefore, actions described as sexually explicit conduct in the provided link would be restricted to regions specifically designated as Adult in Second Life. Residents seeking to participate in or experience adult content and activities should do so in these Adult-designated regions to comply with Second Life's Community Standards and avoid violating the platform's policies.

[Rowan Amore]

20 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

As I see it, actions that fall under the definition of "sexually explicit conduct" as provided https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2256 are generally not allowed in regions designated as General or Moderate. These regions are intended to be family-friendly or suitable for most non-adult activities, respectively. Thus, sexually explicit content or activities, as referenced previously in the link, are not permitted in General or Moderate regions.  

Although, it has been stated many times on these forums and elsewhere that adult activities are allowed on moderate regions "behind closed doors" as a reason that we don't "need" adult Linden homes. Even if someone from Linden Lab were to say in a community forum that adult content is allowed on moderate-rated land, but it still contradicts what is stated in the Terms of Service (ToS), it would be more prudent to place faith in the written policy outlined in the ToS. The ToS is an official and legally binding document that governs the rules and guidelines for using the Second Life platform. This is why I say err on the side of caution.

Regions designated as Adult are intended for hosting and conducting such sexually explicit content or activities. These regions are the appropriate areas where residents can engage in adult-oriented themes and conduct. The Adult designation allows for a more permissive environment that aligns with adult interests and preferences.

Therefore, actions described as sexually explicit conduct in the provided link would be restricted to regions specifically designated as Adult in Second Life. Residents seeking to participate in or experience adult content and activities should do so in these Adult-designated regions to comply with Second Life's Community Standards and avoid violating the platform's policies.

I agree completely which is why I feel LL needs to clean up their ToS and make it more concise.   You only need to agree to ToS which really doesn't designate Adult regions at all when discussing explicit sexual content.

 

[Hunny Bunny]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

I agree completely which is why I feel LL needs to clean up their ToS and make it more concise.

I concur, improving the clarity and conciseness of the Lab's ToS is crucial to avoid any confusion or misunderstandings among users. A more straightforward and transparent ToS would benefit the entire SL community.

Additionally, expanding Linden homes and the mainland to include more adult regions could provide a fair and inclusive environment for residents interested in adult content. It's essential to ensure that users who engage in such content are not unfairly burdened or penalized. A balanced approach that respects the diverse interests and preferences of all users is necessary to foster a welcoming and equitable platform for everyone.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

I’m starting to think that if you want to engage in any adult activity, you should do it on an adult sim, just to be safe. 😆

 

[diamond Marchant]

18 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I’m starting to think that if you want to engage in any adult activity, you should do it on an adult sim, just to be safe.

Reference this https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ

I have always read this to mean that if you can satisfy the "behind closed doors" requirement, you can do otherwise legal adult activity on a moderate region. So put walls around it (e.g. skybox) and don't advertise.

My experience in bringing suspected violations to the attention of Governance is that the alleged violation has to be obvious (to Governance). For example, "Nude art that is not sexual" is rather ambiguous.

Edited July 24, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[Rowan Amore]

32 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Reference this https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ

I have always read this to mean that if you can satisfy the "behind closed doors" requirement, you can do otherwise legal adult activity on a moderate region. So put walls around it (e.g. skybox) and don't advertise.

My experience in bringing suspected violations to the attention of Governance is that the alleged violation has to be obvious (to Governance). For example, "Nude art that is not sexual" is rather ambiguous.

Ambiguity is LL's middle name!

[Hunny Bunny]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Ambiguity is LL's middle name!

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

Reference this https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ

I have always read this to mean that if you can satisfy the "behind closed doors" requirement, you can do otherwise legal adult activity on a moderate region. So put walls around it (e.g. skybox) and don't advertise.

My experience in bringing suspected violations to the attention of Governance is that the alleged violation has to be obvious (to Governance). For example, "Nude art that is not sexual" is rather ambiguous.

lets see… behind a solid wall, uncheck see avatars inside parcel, and isn’t the parcel supposed to be set to an invite only group?

To me that screams we at LL are so ashamed that adult stuff occurs in Second Life that we try our hardest to make it invisible.

I read somewhere that even non sexual nudity on a moderate sim could be grounds for an AR.

Its not worth the hassle.

Adult stuff? Play it safe and do it on adult sims only.

Has to be an obvious violation? That all depends on which LL employee is handling ARs that day

 

[Fionalein]

I guess if LL had not put up that "behind closed doors" policy mainland would be even more deserted by now, and I guess they would also loose a lot of Premium subs and sales tax.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Fionalein

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

I guess if LL had not put up that "behind closed doors" policy mainland would be even more deserted by now, and I guess they would also loose a lot of Premium subs and sales tax.

or more populated 😂

[Hunny Bunny]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

I guess if LL had not put up that "behind closed doors" policy mainland would be even more deserted by now, and I guess they would also loose a lot of Premium subs and sales tax.

It's possible that the "behind closed doors" policy has played a role in maintaining a level of activity on the mainland. By allowing adult content to be kept private and not publicly visible, some residents may feel more comfortable expressing themselves or engaging in adult activities in designated areas without impacting the overall public landscape. Personally, I don't consider this an official policy unless it is explicitly stated in the ToS and until then it remains largely unknown to most residents.

[Fionalein]

8 hours ago, Hunny Bunny said:

It's possible that the "behind closed doors" policy has played a role in maintaining a level of activity on the mainland. By allowing adult content to be kept private and not publicly visible, some residents may feel more comfortable expressing themselves or engaging in adult activities in designated areas without impacting the overall public landscape. Personally, I don't consider this an official policy unless it is explicitly stated in the ToS and until then it remains largely unknown to most residents.

It is in the Official FAQ however.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Fionalein

[Qie Niangao]

10 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

It is in the Official FAQ however.

Yeah, and that's official enough for me… but it's always been ambiguous to me, specifically this part:

Quote

What does "behind closed doors" mean?

Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means:

• Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel. If it is group-access only, the group must not be freely open to join.
• Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel.
• Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers.

Does "every reasonable effort" require all three of those measures, or are they each individually adequate reasonable effort?

• If every parcel with a sex bed in a skybox must have whitelist banlines (closed group or listed individuals only), that's a pain for everybody else who ever gets near the parcel and serves no purpose higher than 50m above ground level. Or are they allowing that the parcel be open access if the adult areas have whitelist scripted "security"? (The next section in the FAQ is about parcels with mixed Adult and moderate content which would seem to support scripted access control, but that's not specific enough: how many seconds may a non-whitelist intruder go undetected by the script before it's not "closed doors" enough? Pretty sure they meant parcel access control here, not merely scripted.)
• The avatar visibility feature also only goes 50m* above ground level, so skybox sex beds are still unmasked by this "closed door" but is it always required anyway, even if there's no Adult content in the space it restricts?
• I'm thinking the visual enclosure is really the only thing that will actually prevent an Abuse Report, and probably all that's actually needed. The prudes seem likely to take "closed doors" very literally. Avatars on a ground-level sex bed may be invisible to prying eyes outside the ban-lined parcel, but I bet they'd figure out some way to report it if it's not sealed-up tight with curtains drawn.

_________________
* That's still true, right? The Knowledge Base says so, but I thought somebody claimed it was extended.

[Fionalein]

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Does "every reasonable effort" require all three of those measures, or are they each individually adequate reasonable effort?

My interpretation was as many of those as possible. So all three of them unless you are in a new LindenHome where the parcel access option was nuked by LL shortly after their release.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Fionalein

[Qie Niangao]

Yeah, but I refuse to restrict access to the ground level of my Moderate parcels just because something naughty might develop 3000m overhead. But it's sort of academic because I have land on Zindra. It's just more comfortable, not having to think about it.

But there's a kink for everything. I'd never judge anyone whose arousal depends on hiding from imaginary neighbors. 😛

[BilliJo Aldrin]

its not about residents wanting privacy, its about uptight Linden Labs wanting to hide adult content as much as possible, either keeping it on zindra or hiding it behind multiple layers on moderate sims.

im giving up on moderate, i have a parcel i was developing, but to hell with it if i have to buy all new furniture with non- adult animations. Heck if i do that I can drop my tier back to 1/16 from 1/8.

Way to go Linden Labs, perhaps more residents need to say enough is enough over these childish anti- s*x rules.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

do residents actually submit ARs because they saw someone doing it on moderate.?

Come to think of it, they do, because i was checking out a moderate parcel for sale one time that had rezz by anyone turned on.

A guy i know imed me wanting to play, so i brought him over and rezzed a blanket and we went at it.

Two minutes later someone imed me from the next sim over and said, i see you there, you better stop or I’ll AR you.

I forget my exact reply, but i probably told them to go pleasure themselves, and go ahead and report me.

SL is full of whiners, busy bodies and scolds that mine the ToS looking for ways to report people.

😂

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a word

[BilliJo Aldrin]

the mods should close this thread, its long gone off topic 😁

[Fionalein]

13 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

the mods should close this thread, its long gone off topic 😁

How so? I think we all agree the fact private adult rated activities are allowed under certain circumstances on moderate land affects the desirability and thus the land pricing. We have focused on one singular aspect that affects pricing but hey, people also seem to have arrived at the conclusion that a lot of people really seem to value that particular aspect.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Fionalein

[BilliJo Aldrin]

18 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

How so? I think we all agree the fact private adult rated activities are allowed under certain circumstances on moderate land affects the desirability and thus the land pricing. We have focused on one singular aspect that affects pricing but hey, people also seem to have arrived at the conclusion that a lot of people really seem to value that particular aspect.

thats true, if there was enough adult land, prices would drop to to same level as moderate and everyone could live there lives in accordance to the choices they want to make, and not the ones LL imposes on everyone

Edited July 25, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
fixed a word