Linden Commercial Land

[Jenny Ashland]

It is nice to have all these house options, but some of us have no interest in a home because we already have a sim or something else. What would really be awesome though... is to have a "Linden commercial Shop" Region. Instead of houses have shops, set it up like a city... Not like a mall, or the events... Like the houses now... 100 or so to a region. I know some of us would like that way more then a house.

[Kathlen Onyx]

40 minutes ago, Jenny Ashland said:

It is nice to have all these house options, but some of us have no interest in a home because we already have a sim or something else. What would really be awesome though... is to have a "Linden commercial Shop" Region. Instead of houses have shops, set it up like a city... Not like a mall, or the events... Like the houses now... 100 or so to a region. I know some of us would like that way more then a house.

UGH, there are too many places and events to go for commercial purposes already.  I'm not sure how much traffic one would get. Besides 100 to a region? Seems like a lot.  It also would not be in LL's best interest to compete with resident's in selling/renting land if they gave it out with a premium or premium plus membership.

[Jenny Ashland]

27 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

UGH, there are too many places and events to go for commercial purposes already.  I'm not sure how much traffic one would get. Besides 100 to a region? Seems like a lot.  It also would not be in LL's best interest to compete with resident's in selling/renting land if they gave it out with a premium or premium plus membership.

I am not talking an event, or traffic, or a heavy user store or club. Just shops instead of houses, you can put whatever you want inside. As for the part about competing with residents selling/renting, the same can be said for residential land. LL has like 15 different types now. Nice small commercial land that doesn't look like poop is hard to come by... I guess I could just use the home as a shop, I have seen people do this. However it would be nice to have some dedicated land that was more "city" like... with shops instead of houses. I would rather set up like a cool restaurant, or a cafe, a movie theater, gas station, a jail, an art galley, a dog shelter... the possibilities are endless. I would much rather have something like that, then another house. 

[Teresa Firelight]

for me I prefer having homes to commercial areas.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Jenny Ashland said:

I am not talking an event, or traffic, or a heavy user store or club. Just shops instead of houses, you can put whatever you want inside. As for the part about competing with residents selling/renting, the same can be said for residential land. LL has like 15 different types now. Nice small commercial land that doesn't look like poop is hard to come by... I guess I could just use the home as a shop, I have seen people do this. However it would be nice to have some dedicated land that was more "city" like... with shops instead of houses. I would rather set up like a cool restaurant, or a cafe, a movie theater, gas station, a jail, an art galley, a dog shelter... the possibilities are endless. I would much rather have something like that, then another house. 

It is against the Covenant for Bellisseria to use a home as a shop. No vendors or tip jars are allowed in the homes, although people do it anyway at times. 

I agree there should be some small shop regions created by the LDPW and used by Premium residents the way Linden Homes are now. I think they could look good adjacent to similar Linden Home themes, a small village market or town square region, for instance. I'd want to limit shop size to 512 m parcels, in order to reduce competition with mainland or private region stores. These would mainly function as starter shops, No Copy item resale stores, and shops with links to bigger mainstores.

Currently we can use Linden Homes only as roleplay businesses, and even then with theme limitations, such we saw with the Newbrook bowling alley issue.

[Sean Heavy]

4 hours ago, Jenny Ashland said:

What would really be awesome though... is to have a "Linden commercial Shop" Region.

I agree 100%!!

If LL created a Linden Commercial Shop region, I would move almost immediately from my Blumfield shop location to the new Linden commercial shop region. I doubt it would compete with the land in Blumfield which usually sells for way overpriced, and there are almost no shops there, mostly just rentals. And I would never use a rented space as my primary shop; it goes away too often as I learned the hard way.

I would prefer to have 1024m for extra decorations. I don't need the space for a lot of items for sale. I have mostly just a few freebie RuthToo/RothToo items.

FYI, there is some LL commercial space, but it is very small and has some very old stuff in it. I didn't see any way to apply to use that space either.
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Luna/88/88/22

Another thread a few years old about this same topic:

 

 

[Sean Heavy]

That old thread had a comment by a Linden! Perhaps we are closer to getting Linden Commercial Shops!

 

[Sparkle Bunny]

1 hour ago, Sean Heavy said:

FYI, there is some LL commercial space, but it is very small and has some very old stuff in it. I didn't see any way to apply to use that space either.

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Luna/88/88/22

I visited Luna a month or two ago. It looked to me like they had some kind of lottery as to who initially got the shops and that was kind of it, forever; no attempt at keeping in touch with the winners or finding new tenants for abandoned units. Interesting, but clearly a failed experiment.

It would certainly make sense to include commercial units as part of the PP package (and pop them on an island near the new welcome areas?) but there would need to be some kind of oversight to prevent the same thing happening again and I'm not sure LL have the resources to do that.

[Nika Talaj]

6 hours ago, Jenny Ashland said:

Nice small commercial land that doesn't look like poop is hard to come by... I guess I could just use the home as a shop, I have seen people do this. However it would be nice to have some dedicated land that was more "city" like... with shops instead of houses. I would rather set up like a cool restaurant, or a cafe, a movie theater, gas station, a jail, an art galley, a dog shelter... the possibilities are endless. I would much rather have something like that, then another house. 

 

I'm a little confused, what you are asking for?  As Persephone pointed out, it is against covenant to use a LH as an actual place of business, where you sell anything or collect tips for the build.  But, all over SL, people use LHs as "faux" businesses already.  Art galleries, cool cafes, travel agencies, a dog shelter - those all sound like fun faux businesses.  I had a olde maritime inn with pub for a while.  LL has their own bicycle-themed cafe - "Java Cycle"? in an open floor plan ...  Addams, is it?

So, are you interested in a Belli region that is all "faux" businesses, laid out like a town center?  Or would you rather have, say, one 'style' home for each theme that is a shop (that seems to me to be begging for convenant infringement).  Or are you asking for nice looking Linden commercial space, where you sell things?  There were thots in the past about setting Millbank up as an open-air market, but so far the moles use it just for fun seasonal builds.

3 hours ago, Sean Heavy said:

If LL created a Linden Commercial Shop region, I would move almost immediately from my Blumfield shop location to the new Linden commercial shop region. I doubt it would compete with the land in Blumfield which usually sells for way overpriced, and there are almost no shops there, mostly just rentals. And I would never use a rented space as my primary shop; it goes away too often as I learned the hard way.

So, what you want is a Commercial Shop region, perhaps part of a group of such regions, where you could buy a small commercial space?  I don't see that that would need to be part of Belli, right?  Sort of a permanent Shop and Hop, maybe?

I've been in two private estates where the owners created really nice town centers with commercial space.  One was urban, one medieval/fantasy.  The thinking seemed to be that it would benefit the merchants, having a built-in clientele interested in that theme. And also it would be interesting for the residential residents, who generated the bulk of the estate income.  Both areas ultimately failed ... I think its a fallacy that SL residents ever wander around the streets where they live, shopping.  That's just not how shopping is done in SL, and besides, you need a much bigger target clientele to make a business successful in SL.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

[snip]

It would certainly make sense to include commercial units as part of the PP package (and pop them on an island near the new welcome areas?) but there would need to be some kind of oversight to prevent the same thing happening again and I'm not sure LL have the resources to do that.

I think commercial shops could be another theme right on the land page with the homes. What if there are 1024 m versions with an upper floor that could be used as a small apartment? The 3 times I had a small shop in a roleplay sim, I had a 1-room apartment over my shop. This would give me a place to change clothes and check on my shop when I rezzed into the sim.

Small shops could give people places to socialize, as well as encourage small, new creators. More coffee shops in and around Bellesseria could be great places for club meetings, singles nights, and poetry readings.

[Persephone Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

[snip]

I've been in two private estates where the owners created really nice town centers with commercial space.  One was urban, one medieval/fantasy.  The thinking seemed to be that it would benefit the merchants, having a built-in clientele interested in that theme. And also it would be interesting for the residential residents, who generated the bulk of the estate income.  Both areas ultimately failed ... I think its a fallacy that SL residents ever wander around the streets where they live, shopping.  That's just not how shopping is done in SL, and besides, you need a much bigger target clientele to make a business successful in SL.

Basilique used to have a mix of commercial shops, private homes, a small dance club, a theater venue (the Basilica) and a meeting area (the chapel and bathhouse) with Adult furniture for group members. Is that sim still active? I lost interest when it changed ownership and stopped having salon meetings, but I once considered renting a combination shop and apartment there.

[Sean Heavy]

12 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

So, what you want is a Commercial Shop region, perhaps part of a group of such regions, where you could buy a small commercial space?  I don't see that that would need to be part of Belli, right?  Sort of a permanent Shop and Hop, maybe?

Yes. It can be it's own separate region(s) similar to Belli but with commerce allowed. I'm not expecting residents to happen upon my shop because they were walking around their neighborhood. I just want a Linden Commercial Shop region for the same reason that others want a Linden Home region. I want a regulated environment that prevents a ten story tall building or worse from being built next door to my small shop.

Having a small shop is would be what I prefer to do with my 'home' in SL, in an area that is all shops instead of homes.  Patch Linden's idea of a commercial variant of the Victorian homes would be a great way to try it out, (separate from the Belli continent, of course).

[Matthieu Quander]

12 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Basilique used to have a mix of commercial shops, private homes, a small dance club, a theater venue (the Basilica) and a meeting area (the chapel and bathhouse) with Adult furniture for group members. Is that sim still active? I lost interest when it changed ownership and stopped having salon meetings, but I once considered renting a combination shop and apartment there.

The sim is still there, but it gets very little traffic, and I am not seen any social events in ages.

[Rowan Amore]

They could repurpose the old Linden homes regions.  Maybe a trial run to see how much interest they get?

[Persephone Emerald]

27 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

They could repurpose the old Linden homes regions.  Maybe a trial run to see how much interest they get?

I don't think it's that easy to repurpose land, nor would the old Linden Home continents be a good location. Better to just delete all but one historical portion of those from the servers, then add a commercial "town square" region in the middle of Belli. It should not look like a shopping mall, because we have enough of those in RL & SL, and that theme doesn't feel warm and friendly.

Honestly, I want each Linden Home theme to have its own commercial town square or market region. I think these would provide more active socialization than most of the Community Regions do, because many people in SL love to shop.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Kathlen Onyx]

How about a downtown area near the community centers. They could add bus stops that would take you there and have buses that roam around Belli that pick people up?

[Nika Talaj]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Honestly, I want each Linden Home theme to have its own commercial town square or market region. I think these would provide more active socialization than most of the Community Regions do, because many people in SL love to shop.

Like I said above, this has been tried and tried again, in tight communities, and I've never seen it work for more than a year.  So ... LL would have to think creatively about how to keep such areas vital.

I like Sean's idea of having a type of LH that is just a small shop, maybe with one room of living space, and presumably the ability to have a skybox, on a region that is all small shops.  Not with any goal of fostering community, just as a different form of LH Premium benefit, for people who want to get into commerce on a small scale.

51 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

They could add bus stops that would take you there and have buses that roam around Belli that pick people up?

Ugh, endlessly roaming empty vehicles.  The pods on mainland always make regions feel MORE empty, not less empty, to me. YMMV; I know some people like them.

However, I have to say that if there were a system of ON-CALL ferries, taxis, and maybe trains to take folks to nearby destinations, I'd totally be down with that.  In fact, the prospect of putting together such a system has tempted me more than once to apply to be a mole, lol!

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Nika Talaj said:

However, I have to say that if there were a system of ON-CALL ferries, taxis, and maybe trains to take folks to nearby destinations, I'd totally be down with that.  In fact, the prospect of putting together such a system has tempted me more than once to apply to be a mole, lol!

Like pushing a button on a bus stop to call an Uber? or a selection on a phone in your house! That would be cool. lol

[Nika Talaj]

Yep.  The way I'd like to do it is from your own home, I think that'd be fun.  Of course there would be limited destinations.  Altho, it wouldn't be IMPOSSIBLE to do sky taxis to a given street address, actually.  So long as people adhere to covenant re: security orbs.

[animats]

Bellessaria started as American suburbia. Mostly, it still is. Here's an idea - small-town America.

Suppose SL had small towns. 

Rome, Georgia.

Towns would be 2 to 5 regions. One region is too cramped; more than 5 are too big for everyone to know everyone else. Roleplay regions tend to be best in the 2-5 region range.

There would be a "main street" shopping street, of course. Houses would mostly be on side streets. Main street would have a cafe or two and some shopping, to give people a place to hang out and socialize.

Towns wouldn't be isolated. Towns would be connected by an open space region of forest, farmland, plain, or hills, so you can drive from town to town, going through each main street. This gives towns the feeling of being part of a bigger world.

A buffer region might look like this. You're out of town, you're on the road, and you can't see the next town yet.

Towns could be quite different from each other. Some might look like Disney's version of America. Some might have heavy industry. Some might look like Crack Den. Some might be college towns. The buffer regions keep this from looking like mainland's jumble.

Existing themed regions could connect with the town grid. This should be encouraged.

Comments?

Edited July 3, 2023 by animats
Typo.

[Teresa Firelight]

Personally my store takes almost 1/2 of a region. It wouldnt fit into a tiny shop. I am only an intermediate sized business.

I can think of a lot of businesses where their store takes a whole region. I dont see many of the medium or big name stores moving to an area of tiny 1024 sq parcel shops... they wouldnt support enough vendors and display space for their products.

[Persephone Emerald]

31 minutes ago, animats said:

Bellessaria started as American suburbia. Mostly, it still is. Here's an idea - small-town America.

Suppose SL had small towns. 

Rome, Georgia.

Towns would be 2 to 5 regions. One region is too cramped; more than 5 are too big for everyone to know everyone else. Roleplay regions tend to be best in the 2-5 region range.

There would be a "main street" shopping street, of course. Houses would mostly be on side streets. Main street would have a cafe or two and some shopping, to give people a place to hang out and socialize.

Towns wouldn't be isolated. Towns would be connected by an open space region of forest, farmland, plain, or hills, so you can drive from town to town, going through each main street. This gives towns the feeling of being part of a bigger world.

Towns could be quite different from each other. Some might look like Disney's version of America. Some might have heavy industry. Some might look like Crack Den. Some might be college towns. The buffer regions keep this from looking like mainland's jumble.

Existing themed regions could connect with the town grid. This should be encouraged.

Comments?

This might be something the LDPW could do on abandoned mainland. If there is already a road, they would only have to connect to it. If there is a whole abandoned region or nearly a whole region, they could claim it for such a development. Rent out shops on 1024 m parcels through the Land page, just as if they were Belli homes. The spaces between rental buildings could be fake buildings and alleys.

[Persephone Emerald]

6 minutes ago, Teresa Firelight said:

Personally my store takes almost 1/2 of a region. It wouldnt fit into a tiny shop. I am only an intermediate sized business.

I can think of a lot of businesses where their store takes a whole region. I dont see many of the medium or big name stores moving to an area of tiny 1024 sq parcel shops... they wouldnt support enough vendors and display space for their products.

This plan wouldn't be to replace medium sized or larger stores. It would only be for small starter stores or event-sized shops. If you have a larger store, this could be used for a satellite shop with a LM giver to your main store.

[CalypsoJewel]

Wasn't Millbank originally thought of to be a future "commerce" region? And then got stuck with events. Which is totally fine with me. I feel like a commerce region would just be big named stores taking up spaces forever and frankly.. i've seen many of the same people, i'd like to see some newer, smaller creators. If just those, bring it!

[Vick Forcella]

Linden Lab has hosted some event shopping on the mainland in the past. I assume it will do that again some day.