International Women's Day in SL?

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

5 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

oops

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Your assumption here is that the activist is always an addict, and I've noted  over the years that you often evaluate issues through the 'addiction lens'.  But while what you describe could be true for some activists, it's certainly not true for all.

Some people simply value having a loving, more 'just society' and use their skills to achieve this when possible.

When the activist is fighting for rights that they are personally involved in then sure but when they start fighting for rights of others then it is approaching the line of an addiction. When it goes into a state where the activist(s) are more invested in fighting for the rights of others rather than their own, it pretty much is full blown codependency.

That is what this thread is about in a sense where the OP is wondering why there is not more support for an International Women's Day vs a whole month for Pride. A really good question for why the activists are not more behind this.

[Luna Bliss]

11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

27 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Your assumption here is that the activist is always an addict, and I've noted  over the years that you often evaluate issues through the 'addiction lens'.  But while what you describe could be true for some activists, it's certainly not true for all.

Some people simply value having a loving, more 'just society' and use their skills to achieve this when possible.

When the activist is fighting for rights that they are personally involved in then sure but when they start fighting for rights of others then it is approaching the line of an addiction. When it goes into a state where the activist(s) are more invested in fighting for the rights of others rather than their own, it pretty much is full blown codependency.

That is what this thread is about in a sense where the OP is wondering why there is not more support for an International Women's Day vs a whole month for Pride. A really good question for why the activists are not more behind this.

It's not approaching addiction to help others who do not have the same condition as you do yourself.  It's empathy.

For example, I'm not autistic but when I encounter somebody in SL who is I try to help or point out ways their thinking might be causing trouble for themselves or others. Often they are thinking in black & white terms and not seeing the complete picture.  Doing so would not mean I'm "approaching the line of addiction".

I don't see activists as not behind International Women's Day at all (in SL or RL) -- I see people on this forum not understanding why there is a need for it.  It's a very complicated issue.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Psyche Starling]

11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

When the activist is fighting for rights that they are personally involved in then sure but when they start fighting for rights of others then it is approaching the line of an addiction. When it goes into a state where the activist(s) are more invested in fighting for the rights of others rather than their own, it pretty much is full blown codependency.

That is what this thread is about in a sense where the OP is wondering why there is not more support for an International Women's Day vs a whole month for Pride. A really good question for why the activists are not more behind this.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_b_59519811e4b0f078efd98440

[belindacarson]

36 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

God its been fun watching you seethe in this thread. 

oh, I haven't been seething at all

 

I've been more amused by some of the posts than anything else.  Especially the ranting ones.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am bowing out of this thread

Really Why? I can't imagine why. 

 

Thread about women :

• stop being lazy do it yourself
• it's not gonna be fun
• you're distracting from pride
• your feelings are lol

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

4 minutes ago, belindacarson said:

oh, I haven't been seething at all

Literally had a meltdown, I'm not sure who you think you're fooling at this point. Belinda. 

[Luna Bliss]

36 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

When the activist is fighting for rights that they are personally involved in then sure but when they start fighting for rights of others then it is approaching the line of an addiction. When it goes into a state where the activist(s) are more invested in fighting for the rights of others rather than their own, it pretty much is full blown codependency.

Here is an encounter I had one night with someone seeking my help:

https://gyazo.com/4ee3b7c6ba1c375782ee62bd12a5d2cc

She expressed being dyslexic and having a number of other problems that made it difficult to communicate, so she had to take me to places so I could understand what she needed. I took extra time with her.  (isn't she adorable, btw, and the photo somehow expresses who she was at that time perfectly).

I don't have any of the problems she has, but I certainly know what it's like to feel confused and I know what it feels like to need others to accomplish a task.  So my 'activism' kicked into high gear and I helped her. I enjoyed seeing her so excited about creating this nature thing too..nature is a love of mine.

I'm not sure you understand what activists are all about. Sure, there are some who come on too strong, and those who are trying to win the approval/brownie points for being "good" -- seeking to win the love that they never received in childhood  (the core component of addiction) --  but most activists are simply coming from the heart.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Hmm but it is a truth that rescuers/activists/codependents/white knights are much more motivated to save others than themselves.  They are much more invested is being active for Pride and other social issues that don't actually involve themselves. For the activist there is always more to fight for, even if the rights of the formerly oppressed is already on par with the rest because the activism is an addiction more so than the equality they seek for others.

Altruism seems illogical to the narcissist. 

Those who struggle with their own addictions or who were raised by parents who had addictions may also be prone to project addictions onto other people.

The truth is that what we know of each other from the posts made on this forum is not enough to diagnose each other as having any mental illness or behavioral problems, so even if it's not projecting, it's rude and not condussive to an open-minded discussion.

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Altruism seems illogical to the narcissist. 

Those who struggle with their own addictions or who were raised by parents who had addictions may also be prone to project addictions onto other people.

The truth is that what we know of each other from the posts made on this forum is not enough to diagnose each other as having any mental illness or behavioral problems, so even if it's not projecting, it's rude and not condussive to an open-minded discussion.

Thank you!!!

[Arielle Popstar]

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Here is an encounter I had one night with someone seeking my help:

https://gyazo.com/4ee3b7c6ba1c375782ee62bd12a5d2cc

She expressed being dyslexic and having a number of other problems that made it difficult to communicate, so she had to take me to places so I could understand what she needed. I took extra time with her.  (isn't she adorable, btw, and the photo somehow expresses who she was at that time perfectly).

I don't have any of the problems she has, but I certainly know what it's like to feel confused and I know what it feels like to need others to accomplish a task.  So my 'activism' kicked into high gear and I helped her. I enjoyed seeing her so excited about creating this nature thing too..nature is a love of mine.

I'm not sure you understand what activists are all about. Sure, there are some who come on too strong, and those who are trying to win the approval/brownie points for being "good" -- seeking to win the love that they never received in childhood  (the core component of addiction) --  but most activists are simply coming from the heart.

Here and your previous post you are talking about a one on one exchange where you listen and relate to what an individual has an issue with. That is not activism but carrying it forward, carrying a message of recovering and teaching another how to deal with a particular handicap they have. Great! Same as I do for ones who have various addiction issues. Helping the individual one on one especially if they have an issue I myself have overcome because it is in that way I am most effective. I lose effectiveness the further away I get from having overcome the challenges an individual or even a group are prone to. I can have all the empathy in the world for someone with a particular issue but my ability to help or even understand what they need to overcome their challenge is not very good. It is like the people who tried to help me with some of my issues years ago, they wanted to help but they couldn't until I finally went to a place wherein there were people like me who suffered from the same problems and had overcome them.

The author of the article @BookishMelinoe posted is a good example of it. He berates those who don't feel the way he does because he doesn't understand what it takes for people to become less selfish and self centered. He seemingly doesn't get what brought him to where we assume he is in being more giving and thoughtful of others. He has empathy but obviously doesn't understand that such an enlightenment is a process especially for those who have or had challenges that made them more conscious of self and their own needs rather then those of others. His own selfishness comes through in his exasperation of not being able to convince others of why it might be a good idea for others to also be in the place he is.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

chose to be flowers rather than weeds. 

Wildflowers are considered weeds. ☹️

[Love Zhaoying]

Unfortunately, it is tempting to "read into" posts and attribute some ulterior motive to the poster.

And now, if I could go back to the beginning:

On 6/14/2023 at 10:15 AM, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Seeing all the events and coverage around Pride Week in SL has been really great. I was wondering if SL does anything official for International Women's Day? I'm not always around SL or a regular basis so I may have completely missed anything that happened back in March when it was. 

I would answer:

This is a great question. If Linden Lab does not do anything official for International Women's Day, they should.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

When the activist is fighting for rights that they are personally involved in then sure but when they start fighting for rights of others then it is approaching the line of an addiction. When it goes into a state where the activist(s) are more invested in fighting for the rights of others rather than their own, it pretty much is full blown codependency.

Would that be like getting all riled up about politics in a country other than the one you live in?

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Would that be like getting all riled up about politics in a country other than the one you live in?

Depends if the politics of said country will carry over as a precedent to other countries as is increasingly becoming the case with the internet and organizations such as wef where politicians and other elites go for ideas on how to equalize the cultures across the world.

[belindacarson]

1 hour ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Literally had a meltdown, I'm not sure who you think you're fooling at this point. Belinda. 

please feel free to highlight relevant parts

 

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

14 minutes ago, belindacarson said:

please feel free to highlight relevant parts

No it's fine, you're allowed to have your reaction. 

[Luna Bliss]

41 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Here and your previous post you are talking about a one on one exchange where you listen and relate to what an individual has an issue with. That is not activism but carrying it forward, carrying a message of recovering and teaching another how to deal with a particular handicap they have. Great! Same as I do for ones who have various addiction issues. Helping the individual one on one especially if they have an issue I myself have overcome because it is in that way I am most effective. I lose effectiveness the further away I get from having overcome the challenges an individual or even a group are prone to. I can have all the empathy in the world for someone with a particular issue but my ability to help or even understand what they need to overcome their challenge is not very good. It is like the people who tried to help me with some of my issues years ago, they wanted to help but they couldn't until I finally went to a place wherein there were people like me who suffered from the same problems and had overcome them.

You're assuming that those who try to create change in a less-personal way, who campaign in a more visible and confrontational manner, are automatically not seeing the issues correctly when in reality they are simply participating in a different way from how you and I tend to participate (on a personal level). Many of them have suffered from the injustices they champion to fix and have great empathy, or at the very least are horrified by the injustices in society they are aware of, and are using their more extroverted skills in the way that suits them best.

As more of an introvert I may choose to stay away from the centers of power and large groups in general, but I recognize attempting to change society at a larger level is needed -- it's just not my niche to run to our capitol and rant at legislators as one of my friends does (this tactic is actually effective, btw -- squeaky wheel and all -- campaigning works!). But for me, best to stay where I do the most good, and what I'm comfortable with -- I am more of a silent campaigner, or a more hidden one.

Nor is it my niche to organize conferences in SL or call SL on the phone and rant as some do in Second Life. I'll stay where I'm comfortable -- increasing awareness via chatting on the forum about various issues, creating beautiful ponds for those dealing with challenges to relax and feel peace at, forming small group meetings in SL to sing or come to terms with the death of loved ones.

In SL, as in RL, whether attempting to change society at a more personal level or via larger groups and centers of power the name "activist" still applies though.

Confrontational people can be annoying to me too, especially on a personal level. I think we need people butting up against those with power in society though -- otherwise they will trample over others too much. Let's face it, all the Kumbaya in the world and our more personal ways of attempting to effect change will never reach them. Best to let those who are skilled at doing so continue the fight, and not denigrate more confrontational-type activists.

[Sorciaa]

wow, this thread is taking me back to the old forum days.

[Luna Bliss]

42 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The author of the article @BookishMelinoe posted is a good example of it. He berates those who don't feel the way he does because he doesn't understand what it takes for people to become less selfish and self centered. He seemingly doesn't get what brought him to where we assume he is in being more giving and thoughtful of others. He has empathy but obviously doesn't understand that such an enlightenment is a process especially for those who have or had challenges that made them more conscious of self and their own needs rather then those of others. His own selfishness comes through in his exasperation of not being able to convince others of why it might be a good idea for others to also be in the place he is.

I did not read this yet, but I certainly don't advocate calling other people "selfish" if they are not in a place to give to society.

One must have an ego before they can let go of an ego, and many aren't given enough of what they need in childhood to even develop a solid ego. So we need to work on ways to help these people feel worthwhile.

This is a central problem for women, who are usually socialized not to have an ego, a solid sense of self, a voice.  It's not healthy to give to others if you don't possess this to some degree.

In SL or RL it's crucial to ask, when giving to others or doing anything really..."why am I doing this"?  "What is my motivation"?

[Arielle Popstar]

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You're assuming that those who try to create change in a less-personal way, who campaign in a more visible and confrontational manner, are automatically not seeing the issues correctly when in reality they are simply participating in a different way from how you and I tend to participate (on a personal level). Many of them have suffered from the injustices they champion to fix and have great empathy, or at the very least are horrified by the injustices in society they are aware of, and are using their more extroverted skills in the way that suits them best.

My assumptions in some ways are not far off as a recent flurry of deleted posts and general condemnation of my viewpoints proved when I as an inworld identifying, cross dressing Barbie with plugin Ken parts whose 100+ friends are mostly all trans of various flavours and whose clubbing circuit is all trans oriented, happened to mention that I didn't fully agree with the Pride agenda. Basically saying I was not allowed to have an opinion and discounted by the very people who are supposedly fighting for our rights. The activists who are not a part of the lifestyle have a tendency to want things the actual community is not looking or protesting for. It is interesting to me that in the clubs I frequent and trans people I talk to, no one is "celebrating Pride", no banners or slogans lining the walls etc. Mostly I think the trans people just want to be left alone to do their thing rather than having society in general pushed to accept their existence. That results imo in a pushback from the very people who were starting to accept alternate lifestyles as the rights of one group start to supersede the rights of the rest of society. 

Tl;dr Activists who are themselves not part of a lifestyle tend to suffer from a disconnect with the very people they are supposedly protesting and celebrating for.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Depends if the politics of said country will carry over as a precedent to other countries as is increasingly becoming the case with the internet and organizations such as wef where politicians and other elites go for ideas on how to equalize the cultures across the world.

Perhaps they should focus on equalizing the cultures of their own countries and accomplish that before tackling it worldwide. 

If everyone cleans up their own backyards, they won't need to worry about the neighbor's.

[Dyna Mole]

It feels like it must be time to move on.