Spring cleaning mainland

[Aethelwine]

An idea cropped up on the recent thread about the Linden's spring cleaning marketplace about the same idea having more value when applied to mainland. Discussing it there would take that off topic, but it has got me thinking and I think worth discussing.

A couple of objections raised there I think are spurious. Firstly that it would in some way breach the contract made when the land was bought, especially as the land continues to be paid for either through recurring direct debit payments or because of early premium privileges.

On the contract, the Terms of Service have always been clear they are subject to change depending on what Linden Lab consider their interests. I don't see a difference here between how marketplace listings worked, the decisions around spring cleaning made recently without explicit additional forewarning. Secondly the land that might be recovered would similar to the marketplace be from absent accounts and therefore the owner wouldn't know to object.

I think there would need to be some protections, I would not like to lose some of the early builds that are distinctive parts of the history. So maybe they could create a policy that balances those concerns by removing parcels from automatic recovery built in the first five years. Land in that category would only be recovered and put up for sale after an individual review of the parcel by Governance.

It might be complicated to work out a process that protects and avoids all legitimate concerns, but on the face of it it seems to me it could help refresh mainland and be of benefit to those living and using mainland also helping to maximise Linden Lab profits.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

I have a way better idea, instead of creating even more empty wasteland,  how about some spring plantings, throw some trees and shrubs and flowers onto those barren sim wastelands that LL owns. But not those nasty LL plants, LL should spend a few bucks in the marketplace and buy some decent ones. And, while they are at it, bulldoze some new roads through the interior so there would be more desirable roadfront protected parcels people could ask LL for.

Just a thought. 😁

[elleevelyn]

if mainland was a highly sought after product leading to scarcity then there might be some merit in Linden exercising eminent domain over long absent owners. But with the current state of mainland oversupply then the idea of exercising eminent domain recedes further

agree with BilliJo (and everybody else down the years) for more main land carved out and set aside for the public domain within the mainland interior. Roads, paths (ponds, lakes terrain permitting), parks and other sundry public spaces

[BilliJo Aldrin]

I have been shouted down before about this, but LL could fill mainland tomorrow if they offered land at the same price estate owners offer land, $1 L per parcel. Sure, maybe the land barons would scoop them all up, but either way, mainland could be fully occupied, and all land prices would have to drop, because even land barons don't have infinitely deep pockets.

Of course at the same time LL would have to deal with networked advertising once and for all to stop  people from grabbing the $1 L parcels, cutting off 16 sq m roadfront, and abandoning the rest.

Perhaps a rule that you can't subdivide the $1 L parcels.

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a line

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/8/2023 at 2:51 PM, Aethelwine said:

An idea cropped up on the recent thread about the Linden's spring cleaning marketplace about the same idea having more value when applied to mainland. Discussing it there would take that off topic, but it has got me thinking and I think worth discussing.

A couple of objections raised there I think are spurious. Firstly that it would in some way breach the contract made when the land was bought, especially as the land continues to be paid for either through recurring direct debit payments or because of early premium privileges.

On the contract, the Terms of Service have always been clear they are subject to change depending on what Linden Lab consider their interests. I don't see a difference here between how marketplace listings worked, the decisions around spring cleaning made recently without explicit additional forewarning. Secondly the land that might be recovered would similar to the marketplace be from absent accounts and therefore the owner wouldn't know to object.

I think there would need to be some protections, I would not like to lose some of the early builds that are distinctive parts of the history. So maybe they could create a policy that balances those concerns by removing parcels from automatic recovery built in the first five years. Land in that category would only be recovered and put up for sale after an individual review of the parcel by Governance.

It might be complicated to work out a process that protects and avoids all legitimate concerns, but on the face of it it seems to me it could help refresh mainland and be of benefit to those living and using mainland also helping to maximise Linden Lab profits.

Here we go again...

[diamond Marchant]

On 5/8/2023 at 4:59 PM, BilliJo Aldrin said:

But not those nasty LL plants, LL should spend a few bucks in the marketplace and buy some decent ones

LL now has a nice inventory of quality botanicals, some even low LI, due to landscaping Bellisseria for four years.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:51 PM, Aethelwine said:

A couple of objections raised there I think are spurious. Firstly that it would in some way breach the contract made when the land was bought, especially as the land continues to be paid for either through recurring direct debit payments or because of early premium privileges.

If people are still paying, the land is still theirs, no amount of Fanatical Vehicle User "Your land belongs to me because I drive" BS changes that.

 

On 5/8/2023 at 7:51 PM, Aethelwine said:

I think there would need to be some protections, I would not like to lose some of the early builds that are distinctive parts of the history. So maybe they could create a policy that balances those concerns by removing parcels from automatic recovery built in the first five years. Land in that category would only be recovered and put up for sale after an individual review of the parcel by Governance.

So, your plan to evict parcel owners only applies to "damn noobs", who joined AFTER 2008, who might have built a mesh structure that looks decent, but which isn't used much, and not to "Fossils" who threw up some fugly prim-crap 17 years ago, and left it as an eyesore ever since.

Outstanding!

 

On 5/8/2023 at 7:51 PM, Aethelwine said:

It might be complicated to work out a process that protects and avoids all legitimate concerns, but on the face of it it seems to me it could help refresh mainland and be of benefit to those living and using mainland also helping to maximise Linden Lab profits.

"Refresh Mainland"... Hmm you call deleting stuff built AFTER 2008 but leaving ancient prim-crap fuglyness "Refreshing", Hardly.

"Maximise LL profits"... How exactly?

"Dear LL, please delete parcels you are being paid for and STOP getting paid for them, so there will be MORE abandoned land for Fanatical Vehicle Users Against Property Ownership to drive on! But make sure you keep those 18 year old fugly prim-crap builds on not-paid-for lifetime 4096's!"

 

You plan, basically, reeks of Fanatical Vehicle User Hidden Agenda Entitlement, the idea that "Evil Property Owners, have buildings and trees, and banlines and security orbs that prevent YOU from enjoying off road motor sports on THEIR land and should be evicted!", except if they are ancient accounts who build fugly low-skill prim-crap back in the SL stone age.

And THAT reeks of blatant hypocrisy.

 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

LL now has a nice inventory of quality botanicals, some even low LI, due to landscaping Bellisseria for four years.

cool,  now they just need to use them on the rest of mainland

*smiles*

[BilliJo Aldrin]

@Zalificent Corvinus I love my fugly low-skill prim-crap build. I find mesh builds look flat, like you are standing in front of a picture. Plus, mesh degrades over distance, whereas you can see my build from 3 sims away, if your draw is set high enough 😁

[Marianne Little]

@Zalificent CorvinusEnglish isn't my #1 language, so I am not sure if I can write so well. .

But I will try. I agree that LL can not take away land who's paid for. They pay for it, and if they do not log in, that's no argument for taking it. I think LL would break some RL law, about taking back a service paid for. But was not some residents granted land in the super old days, that they do not pay for now? If they haven't logged in for years, LL could claim them. Because when we agree to TOS, we agree to LL changing rules as they wish.

If somebody should log in after 10 years absent, LL could offer them the same size land as a replacement.

You are very angry about vehicles and I do not know why. If it is made roads across abandoned land, does it hurt anyone? And the land next to the roads will be more popular. If a resident hold a small part of land just where a road could be connected to the exsisting roads, LL could offer the resident a deal. Maybe he/she would be happy to move just some m of land aside, and have a protected road next to him.

If LL makes some parks protected and for all, does it hurt anyone? And if LL will landscape some lakes in the endless wastelands, why not. The empty land with barren soil or rock is not attractive to me.

I think it is possible, but LL does not want to spend time and resources on it. The moles doing it would need both building skills and people skills. It could be some anger if, as said, old residents log in after 10 years.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

On 5/8/2023 at 2:51 PM, Aethelwine said:

An idea cropped up on the recent thread about the Linden's spring cleaning marketplace about the same idea having more value when applied to mainland. Discussing it there would take that off topic, but it has got me thinking and I think worth discussing.

I think they should remove every mole-made thing on the mainland. Except roads. Most of it is made of prims, really old or just ... crappy looking. 

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I think they should remove every mole-made thing on the mainland. Except roads. Most of it is made of prims, really old or just ... crappy looking. 

Nah, just purge all the pre-PBR mesh.

[Rufferta]

On 5/16/2023 at 6:20 AM, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I think they should remove every mole-made thing on the mainland. Except roads. Most of it is made of prims, really old or just ... crappy looking. 

I kinda like all the old primmy mole-made builds. They remind me of when the world was new. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Rufferta

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:04 AM, Rufferta said:

I kinda like all the old primmy mole-made builds. They remind me of when the world was new. 

nnnnooooooooooooo  😑

[Rufferta]

3 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

nnnnooooooooooooo  😑

Yessssssssssssssss

It all began with the prim. Should we forget our roots and pretend we came into the world fully meshed?

Part of what I see as the beauty of the Mainland is that it is a place where you can build what you want. When I see a blocky resident build I see it as a sign that someone has struck out on their own to create something unique. They did not go to the store or Marketplace to buy an "acceptable" home, they made their own.

I think the history of the Mole builds also reflects some of us residents' learning curves: We might start with a prim, torture it a bit,  try making a few sculpts and then...if we are brave enough...we tackle Blender.

One of the first thoughts I had on seeing one of the early Mole builds was "I could build that!" and that encouraged me to try my hand at building (and found it was harder than it looked).

I did not come here for an argument, just wanted to give my opinion. 

 

 

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

14 minutes ago, Rufferta said:

Yessssssssssssssss

It all began with the prim. Should we forget our roots and pretend we came into the world fully meshed

Okay so we keep ONE mole-made prim build. 😏

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 hours ago, Rufferta said:

Yessssssssssssssss

It all began with the prim. Should we forget our roots and pretend we came into the world fully meshed?

Part of what I see as the beauty of the Mainland is that it is a place where you can build what you want. When I see a blocky resident build I see it as a sign that someone has struck out on their own to create something unique. They did not go to the store or Marketplace to buy an "acceptable" home, they made their own.

I think the history of the Mole builds also reflects some of us residents' learning curves: We might start with a prim, torture it a bit,  try making a few sculpts and then...if we are brave enough...we tackle Blender.

One of the first thoughts I had on seeing one of the early Mole builds was "I could build that!" and that encouraged me to try my hand at building (and found it was harder than it looked).

I did not come here for an argument, just wanted to give my opinion. 

 

 

When I rezzed my first prim, i was like omg that is so amazing, and I was hooked. I never really progressed beyond stacking cubes, but my home amuses me. Its  something I might live in in rl. I designed it, I built it, and I like it, and that's all that really matters isn't it? 😁

[Ardy Lay]

31 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

When I rezzed my first prim, i was like omg that is so amazing, and I was hooked. I never really progressed beyond stacking cubes, but my home amuses me. Its  something I might live in in rl. I designed it, I built it, and I like it, and that's all that really matters isn't it? 😁

If only it was as easy and durable in real life.

[Anicha Heartsong]

8 hours ago, Ardy Lay said:

If only it was as easy and durable in real life.

Roofs never leak in Second Life.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/16/2023 at 9:20 AM, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I think they should remove every mole-made thing on the mainland. Except roads. Most of it is made of prims, really old or just ... crappy looking. 

No.

Not unless they pay Ancient Mole a handsome sum to come and put his fabulous new builds on every place you remove old Mole builds from. Quite a few of them are still nice. You're just irritated at some build you're looking at.

It's funny you want to exempt the roads. They are atrocious. And suffering prim drift and Linden grass kudzu and just sheer ugliness. The ones they replaced are dreadful because the textures don't work for the areas they put them in. 

If the Lindens have any budget or staff for anything, I'd rather it go to fixing search and putting in effective advertising capacity, rather than fixing roads which most people don't care about or go on.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Prokofy Neva