Does it say something about me if I feel more "vulnerable" as a woman avi?

[Silent Mistwalker]

27 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm sooooo tired of people policing other people's identities.

 

It's long past time to stop labeling every damn thing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbescoachescouncil/2019/05/21/why-its-time-to-stop-labeling-ourselves-and-those-around-us/?sh=5e06b7e1433d

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

7 hours ago, belindacarson said:

I won't post stuff going on in the real world that actually counts, like the war in Ukraine that's displaced 40 million odd people, Russia threatening to sink ships that try to ship grain to Africa etc.  You know, stuff that REALLY matters and affects people.

Thank god you told us about this otherwise none of us would have known about it. Everyone stop what you're doing, and worry about this only. Right now.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

8 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Nonsense

A lot of biological women do find it offensive, maybe not derogatory. I wont say more than that cause it's off topic but a quick Google will tell you more.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[Istelathis]

7 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

It's long past time to stop labeling every damn thing.

Agreed, CIS, trans, whatever.  A label can never really cover the full dynamic of a person, it is very limiting and puts us all in this confining box as well as makes it a lot easier for others to manipulate us into opposing one another over what are usually very trivial differences.  

With that said, I'll do my best to respect people's identities, go out of my way to try to accommodate them, even though I often feel that the concept of identity to be limiting in of itself, as I think we are always changing, that no one can really agree on what that identity entails, plus it makes it easier for people to gatekeep others into conforming to fit what they define as that identity, etc.. but people naturally want to fit in with others.  

I respect individuality above identities, if someone wants to be treated a certain way, I find it best to just try to treat them in that manner.  I do think as time progresses on, and we are able to express ourselves with more freedom, perhaps identities and labels themselves will matter less, perhaps, just maybe, we will stop trying to enforce our own definition as to what a *real* man, woman, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Democrat, Republican, Independent, etc, etc, etc is - and just respect one another and find commonalities with one another to grow upon.

But then, I'm a dreamer, and ever the optimist that humans are capable of more than these simple concepts that have enslaved us for years.. 

 

 

[SorachaNicEoghain]

On 5/4/2023 at 7:19 AM, Gopi Passiflora said:

Okay fine, I understand this may be another controversial topic, but bear with me, the thought came to my head.

I'm a man in real life but I still enjoy using woman avatars. But for some reason, when I'm a woman in a place with other avatars, I have more of this feeling of "vulnerability" than when I'm using a man or non-human avi. I guess you can attribute it to a higher chance of getting hit on by men (but I still enjoy their compliments if done in a nice way.)

I was wonder what you guys think of this. 

I think maybe you're feeling like an imposter, not vulnerable. I have never felt vulnerable in sl. And since it's a social game and women literally have more gray matter in that area, I have definitely felt that advantage 😜. 

[SorachaNicEoghain]

On 5/4/2023 at 7:52 AM, Arielle Popstar said:

I get what you are saying here. As a male avatar it is much easier for me to say no to a request I am not interested in vs when I use my female avatar. I wouldn't term it vulnerable per se but just see it as that more challenging to say No thank you. There is also the aspect that it is my observation that others are less likely to take no as a response to a female avatar than a male one, as I do see that when the male says no, there is rarely a badgering to change the mind rather than the female one which sees that it more regularly.

I think maybe that has more to do with how you behave as a woman than other people. I have a male alt. I find people are friendlier towards him than me, probably because his name is "Alt" and he has no profile. He isn't taken seriously from the get go. Whereas when I am myself, I still have a lot of fun. I do find men less aware of how others perceive them so sometimes you can be subtly teasing them and only the other women around have any idea. Awwwww bless. Men are so cute 😍 

Edited July 22, 2023 by SorachaNicEoghain

[Istelathis]

 

Gopi, don't worry too much about it.  If we are imposters, then so be it. I can relate to feeling as though I don't belong to the human race as a whole at times, I never did fit in, never felt right here myself, felt like I was causing more harm than good.  But then, I never really wanted to belong to anyone or any group, and  never felt right being owned by others which for some reason, is valuable to others.  I never felt right in trying to own others either for that matter.  I'm alien as well, we will just use their own paranoia against them and eventually take over and assimilate them to our own genetic makeup which holds no ownership 😝

Edited July 22, 2023 by Istelathis

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

A lot of biological women do find it offensive, maybe not derogatory. I wont say more than that cause it's off topic but a quick Google will tell you more.

Oh, I know it. My Twitter feed, and my RL groups, are full of women being offended by it. Although they do represent a minority.

Finding it "offensive" however, because one disagrees with its premise -- which is that trans women are also women -- isn't quite the same thing as it being "an insult."

But you are right that this is veering off-topic.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra
Grammar

[InnerCity Elf]

Most women seem to say they don't feel vulnerable in SL because in SL, they can't be bodily harmed, mute, tp out, log off. I think one could argue that "being pushed" to do that already means feeling or being vulnerable in a way. Then again, you coud argue that nobody can make you do that and you do it to yourself. I don't feel very vulnerable in SL, generally, but there have been situations I couldn't/didn't want to handle, where I just logged out. Situations I'm pretty certain that I wouldn't have been in, had I been in a male, or cat, or whatever, non-human female avatar. Generally, I think, feeling vulnerable, or not, or even empowered, as a woman (fenale avatar) in SL is much a matter of personality. I don't doubt that many women don't feel vulnerable, but I also think that some do, even if there's no way to be bodily harmed.

Love's comment

On 5/4/2023 at 4:42 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

If you told us you felt vulnerable, I would assume your account was hacked!

made me think in a different direction, though. There is always the possibility that a hacker might get too many RL data for you to be comfy with, and that someone is trying "social hacking", maybe over time, so you might fall prey to it, even if you're not the type who'd give away too much RL info soon(ish), and the maybe subconscious "threat" that someone from SL might actually become able to indeed bodily harm you, or even just "appear in your RL", might cause a feeling of vulnerability.

Just some thoughts. Strictly on-topic, I'd also tend to saying that it's likely a sort of projection (but maybe not completely unfounded, see above).

ETA another thought that popped up when closing the thread and seeing the title again, I love to around in my cat avatar sometimes, and I'd say, I feel freer, more unbothered in the cat avatar than one of my female avatars, so, yes, maybe I feel more vulnerable in my female avatar, too. It's relatable, for me, at the least.

What that does say about me, well, maybe just that I sometimes want to escape stupid IMs that waste precious time, or maybe that I do feel vulnerable, not sure. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by InnerCity Elf

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, InnerCity Elf said:

Most women seem to say they don't feel vulnerable in SL because in SL, they can't be bodily harmed, mute, tp out, log off. I think one could argue that "being pushed" to do that already means feeling or being vulnerable in a way.

You make a really interesting point here that has led me to rethink this in a slightly different way.

I don't really know that women, intrinsically, feel, or should feel more vulnerable than men in SL. In theory, we have the same tools at our disposal for dealing with it. And I'm sure that there are many men who feel vulnerable too, and who duck out of unpleasant situations in the way that you describe.

But there may, for some women, be this difference: that they have felt particularly vulnerable -- or perhaps abused -- in RL, and that their sensitivity to certain kinds of situations or behaviours is more acute as a result. (I'm trying to avoid using the "T" word here!)

If that's the case, then there is at least one gendered difference in how some women might react to particular situations, even if they are not, objectively speaking, more "vulnerable" than anyone else.

And that sensitivity, that feeling of vulnerability that is really a carry-over from RL, is still "real" and valid, even if apparently unnecessary. Telling someone who has been hit a lot that it's unnecessary to flinch when they see a gesture that evokes those occasions, or makes them think it's going to happen again, would be pretty heartless and insensitive to the real effects of trauma.

[InnerCity Elf]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

objectively

Objectively/subjectively, respectively "being vulnerable" vs "feeling vulnerable" is a very interesting point, and RL experiences might actually make some people more vulnerable. If someone sees no way out than log off, while they don't actually want to log off, some might say they are objectively more vulnerable (to certain situations, because of their RL background), while others still wouldn't accept the "objectively". And chances are probably that it's more women, with RL experiences that would "make them" escape a situation in SL, but, of course, that can apply to men, too.

One could also look at it like, when someone feels pushed to get out of an SL situation so much they have to tp out or log off, they have bad feelings that are there, maybe even feel sick to their stomach, develop a headache, actually physical reactions, they exist, are objective, even though there is no way for a threat or perceived threat to materialize in SL.

The subjective/objective border seems a little fuzzy to me.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, InnerCity Elf said:

The subjective/objective border seems a little fuzzy to me.

I agree.

[SorachaNicEoghain]

Am I the only one to feel as a woman an absolute advantage in social situations comparative to the advantage men have in upper body strength and bone density etc. I feel it in rl too in social situations. Come on ladies, you know what I'm talking about. 

In sl  I have met only a handful of men who can fully comprehend what's going on. No offense intended

Edited July 22, 2023 by SorachaNicEoghain

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh, I know it. My Twitter feed, and my RL groups, are full of women being offended by it. Although they do represent a minority.

I'm.not sure that's true.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I'm.not sure that's true.

I'm not sure it's universally true: I've never seen a poll on attitudes towards the term, and can only speak in that regard to my own experience and milieu -- my Twitter feed and RL groups. But that's not entirely surprising, as the communities I associate with are overwhelming 3rd (or 4th) Wave intersectional feminists with pro trans-rights views. I have seen polls, though, that show that a majority of women, in the US, the UK, and Canada, support a recognition of trans identities.

In any case, we're veering off course a bit, and are going to get a stern look from the mods shortly!

[Luna Bliss]

On 5/3/2023 at 5:19 PM, Gopi Passiflora said:

Okay fine, I understand this may be another controversial topic, but bear with me, the thought came to my head.

I'm a man in real life but I still enjoy using woman avatars. But for some reason, when I'm a woman in a place with other avatars, I have more of this feeling of "vulnerability" than when I'm using a man or non-human avi. I guess you can attribute it to a higher chance of getting hit on by men (but I still enjoy their compliments if done in a nice way.)

I was wonder what you guys think of this. 

A few synonyms for 'vulnerable' are "unshielded, unguarded, unfortified, unarmed, exposed".

Men are, on average, still socialized to be more in control,  and so if you have internalized this message and on some level subscribe to the notion that men are supposed to be more in charge than women I can imagine it could feel a bit threatening not to automatically have this advantage (psychologically).

Needing to defend against or be prepared to deal with others who are actively wanting something from us, engaging with us at a higher rate, can put some people on the defensive because the other person has taken charge.  And in a defensive position, a more vulnerable psychological state, we are putting up a guard, a shield, a mode of protection.  We have to be prepared to deal with someone trying to get something from us.

 

[ItHadToComeToThis]

19 hours ago, belindacarson said:

Just putting it in comparison.

 

y'know.  Stuff that ACTUALLY matters, not stuff that "triggers" the frozen water and chocolate confectionery brigade

I find it’s more often the right wing brigade that get the most tilted of all. Though don’t let them hear you say that, they tend to get a bit upset whenever anyone calls them out 😅.

[ItHadToComeToThis]

11 hours ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

A lot of biological women do find it offensive, maybe not derogatory. I wont say more than that cause it's off topic but a quick Google will tell you more.

Ah the university of Google! Where mainstream media articles and four people in a forum equal “a lot”.

[Theresa Tennyson]

19 hours ago, belindacarson said:

then you need to man up.

Whatever you say, Belinda.

[ItHadToComeToThis]

18 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

All well and good till a male born woman enters a prim lifting competition for the women's team!

And yet, those who complain, never speak about the thousands of records that trans people aren’t breaking, or even coming close. Only ever the one here and one there.

Take Leah Thomas, won a single race, out of many, no where near the top time and is no where near the top level of competitive female swimming. Her time for that race has now been beaten more than once, by a cis female. And since then has yet to do anything of significant value.

Yet, we don’t need anything about that and instead all we get is “derp the end is near a trans woman won a race derp derp”.

And then cretins buy into it, running to the university of Google and YouTube, taking their worldly advice from such word salad extraordinaires as Jordan Peterson 😅😴

Edited July 22, 2023 by ItHadToComeToThis

[sirhc DeSantis]

Fascinating. Small note on the 'Cis' used as an insult. I was pee'd off too until I realised that  'someones' needed a balancing label. Fair enough but as Silent points out the need to label is a tiresome thing. Labellers gotta label I guess.
Now as a 2nd waver brought up in the matriarchy to find myself now white, well over middle age and a priviliged heteronormative I am more than happy to be vilified. It was probably my fault after all. Also the empire, thats on me too. Erm actually age wise the Commonwealth but that is def my fault. 

Sorry, have to finish my smink (damn these lashes) as I watch the F1 because.. erm something.

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But there may, for some women, be this difference: that they have felt particularly vulnerable -- or perhaps abused -- in RL, and that their sensitivity to certain kinds of situations or behaviours is more acute as a result. (I'm trying to avoid using the "T" word here!)

Bingo! When I first logged into SL, I felt extremely vulnerable. Of course, back then, LL hadn't given us some of the tools we have today yet. That feeling has never gone away thanks to the behavior of others.

[Luna Bliss]

7 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

(I'm trying to avoid using the "T" word here!)

Shout that word out, girl!   Reclaim it!!!!!!!!!   lolol

[Scylla Rhiadra]

26 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

I was pee'd off too until I realised that  'someones' needed a balancing label.

And that's exactly it, right? If "cis woman" simply = "woman," then one is by definition excluding trans women from that category.

Labels are annoying, and eventually we'll be able to drop some of them -- but we're all "labellers," no? Man, woman, straight, gay, blonde, brunette . . . the list goes on pretty much endlessly.

28 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

It was probably my fault after all.

Well, I don't think so.

And in any case, I'm VERY forgiving. 🙂

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Shout that word out, girl!   Reclaim it!!!!!!!!!   lolol

It is somewhat overused, not infrequently misused, and can . . . t****** . . . some people.