PPLH pipe dream?

[Lydia Amethyst]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I've seen posts on the Forum by Lindens, saying that there is no way to increase the LI for a region.

You'd think that would not be such a big deal!

I mean, I kind of call lies on this... full sims used to only be able to have about 20k land impact, and now in this day in age,  your average sim has 30k... If i'm not mistaken, it's just a change in coding, since everything is done digitally.

[Lydia Amethyst]

On 3/16/2023 at 5:55 PM, Patch Linden said:

This is still true and proven in what we track.  The lifecycle of a new (premium) user in large, significant percentages start with a Linden Home, outgrow it and want more.  They move on into the larger land ecosystem to mainland, private estates/rentals.

Not if you can't afford it. Some of us are comfortable with our little linden homes, we just want the premium plus ones we're paying for, considering you can't find an affordable piece of mainland these days.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Lydia Amethyst said:

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I've seen posts on the Forum by Lindens, saying that there is no way to increase the LI for a region.

You'd think that would not be such a big deal!

I mean, I kind of call lies on this... full sims used to only be able to have about 20k land impact, and now in this day in age,  your average sim has 30k... If i'm not mistaken, it's just a change in coding, since everything is done digitally.

Agreed. Since LL owns the code, how hard could it be? Unless every single bit of server code has a "Nope, max 30K Prims/LI limit" hard-coded into it.

[Marisa Starbrook]

As long as this thread is about pipe dreams, mine has always been  the dream of being able to transfer a linden home from my alts to me (as the main account). Linden Lab already knows that my alts are extensions of me. I probably wouldn’t move around as much if I was able to get the dream houses that my alts (but never me) seem to be able to land. 

[Matthieu Quander]

20 hours ago, Lydia Amethyst said:

I mean, I kind of call lies on this... full sims used to only be able to have about 20k land impact, and now in this day in age,  your average sim has 30k... If i'm not mistaken, it's just a change in coding, since everything is done digitally.

You can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.  It took several years for them to increase LI on regions across the board.  They didn't just decide one day to do it.  It took a lot of improvements in server and viewer code, hardware upgrades, technological advancements, such as mesh, and countless hours of testing to make sue the grid could handle it.  

Adding LI to a region doesn't come without consequences or costs that some residents don't consider or refuse to accept.  Do you actually want to be able to walk around your home, drive your vehicle from region to region, have items and textures rez in your viewer in seconds rather than minutes?  Some of these things are already a challenge in certain areas due to concentrations of residents who use too many poorly built or heavily scripted items.  Doubling everyone's allowance would only add to the problem.  That would be a big "no thank you" from me. 

Eventually, additional advances on the technological side or an unexpected drop in server costs may allow them to again increase the limits, but it won't be anytime soon.

There is no harm in wanting a private estate experience for the cost of a premium account, but there are reasons why different tiers of land ownership exist.  Just as in RL, "more" usually isn't free.   

  

[Kylie Jaxxon]

LL has said NUMEROUS times, they won't do it.  Stop beating a dead horse into the ground

[Nika Talaj]

17 hours ago, Marisa Starbrook said:

As long as this thread is about pipe dreams, mine has always been  the dream of being able to transfer a linden home from my alts to me (as the main account). 

As LL builds out more inventory, this becomes more and more a desirable feature.  I used to be able to trade properties between alts by timing the abandon carefully, but for most of the themes that's now almost impossible, because there are already so many properties enqueued and available.

The only way I can think of to reliably move an alt's LH to your main is to make your main P+ for a month, and arrange with support to claim the home as soon as you abandon it.  I've never tried that, but I assume it could be done.  If your main is on a yearly renewal, tho, you could end up essentially losing months of Premium stipends.

[AzureWaves]

LL is a business with flexibility in their decision making. No today could be yes tomorrow. I still think in the future we will see increased LI on Linden Homes, because not everyone can afford it. It's that simple. There isn't such a huge demand on a single region, that increase a region from 20K -> 30K would be enough to provide for the residents on those regions. Ask for it long enough and it will become a feature.

[AzureWaves]

1 hour ago, Nika Talaj said:

As LL builds out more inventory, this becomes more and more a desirable feature.  I used to be able to trade properties between alts by timing the abandon carefully, but for most of the themes that's now almost impossible, because there are already so many properties enqueued and available.

The only way I can think of to reliably move an alt's LH to your main is to make your main P+ for a month, and arrange with support to claim the home as soon as you abandon it.  I've never tried that, but I assume it could be done.  If your main is on a yearly renewal, tho, you could end up essentially losing months of Premium stipends.

This sounds like a future Premium Plus feature! I'm willing to bet it will be possible, don't lose hope.

[Patch Linden]

On 3/16/2023 at 5:53 PM, Patch Linden said:

I considered it, spent a lot of time analyzing the impact it would have on the greater land economy, which is something I have to account for in my wide purview of the entire grid.  We could flip a switch tomorrow and bring it out, but we're not going to because it will cause economic harm and destabilization in areas that I have to think about.

 

Maybe the new theme is more like 2 buck chuck, and not an expensive bottle of wine.  Lets not set everyone's expectations a mile high in the sky.  Like every other theme, it will not resonate with everyone, there will be negativity towards it and most will forget about all the features soon enough, including the ones we've added recently like new community centers and floor plans to the existing themes with even more coming.   I've been intentionally quiet for a reason on a lot of things Linden Home related and it comes from the negativity and lack of constructive dialog in these forums and other places.   

Please refer back to this post.

[Lydia Amethyst]

On 3/31/2023 at 1:50 PM, Patch Linden said:

Please refer back to this post.

Economic... harm? how? this makes absolutely no sense. I feel like most of us would be getting a better value for our premium plus membership we are paying for....?

[Nika Talaj]

On 3/31/2023 at 10:27 AM, AzureWaves said:

I still think in the future we will see increased LI on Linden Homes, because not everyone can afford it. It's that simple. There isn't such a huge demand on a single region, that increase a region from 20K -> 30K would be enough to provide for the residents on those regions. Ask for it long enough and it will become a feature.

I am with Matthieu in saying "Hopefully not".   I don't want to see the LI/m2 ratio upped in Linden Home regions anytime soon.  I have an Nvidia 1650 GTX GPU with only 4GB memory, and unless the client's rendering pipeline is radically redesigned I think the client-side lag induced by giving residents bonus LI in regions that have 20 1024 parcels would be crippling.  We all like to use our landscaping and furniture without bothering about how many 1024x1024 textures we're adding ... indeed monitoring every bit of texture usage would make decorating much less fun.  

I know LL was tossing around the idea of creating LH parcel sizes between 1024 & 2058; I'd be fine with that.  Or if they need to make Premium a better value at some point, it might be easier for them to decrease Premium's price than muck with the LI/m2 ratio.

[MoiraKathleen]

I would not be in favor of having the LI/sqm ratio increased either in Bellisseria.  With the house not counting against our parcel LI we already are getting a bonus - we're free to use the entire parcel LI allotment for just furnishings and landscaping.  I also think if the LI per parcel was increased,  there would be issues with lag and/or textures not loading well. I would not want to have less of the beautiful Mole landscaping as a trade-off for having higher parcel LI. It's all the public landscaping and public areas that, in my opinion, really make Bellisseria special.  

LH's aren't intended to meet all of everyone's needs.  They are one option available and each person needs to decide for themselves whether a LH with it's constraints (LI, covenant, etc.) is best for them, or whether looking at other land rental or ownership possibilities is best for them. 

[Matthieu Quander]

11 hours ago, Lydia Amethyst said:

Economic... harm? how? this makes absolutely no sense. I feel like most of us would be getting a better value for our premium plus membership we are paying for....?

The economic harm would primarily be to those in SL who offer rentals.  One of the primary benefits of renting parcels on mainland or private estates is that the LI allowances are often very generous.  If the LI allowances in Linden Homes reach a point where they are directly competing with rentals, then it potentially impacts the SL economy and eventually, the LL revenue stream. 

There were already a lot of complaints from some land owners when Bellisseria opened because so many people decided that a Linden Home was finally nice enough that keeping a rental on the side was no longer necessary for one's Second Lifestyle. 

For LL to make money, and thus for SL to continue existing, all forms of land ownership need to remain economically viable.  As others have stated many times, the Linden Homes available to Premium account holders were initially intended to be starter  homes.  The overwhelming success of Bellisseria has called that statement into question, but the sentiment remains that they are not supposed to be the pinnacle of SL home/land ownership, even if they fill that need for some.  

[benchthis]

There's so many users expressing desire for more building resources, without increasing the land impact allowance. An update to the given home can provide bonus object depending on the home. If the linden home is lower prim that would increase the amount of prims the home will allow builders to mod. Would be basic shapes. That way builders can do their perfecting of home design with shapes while teaching them how to build better. I know all those mesh linked shapes we use to make our houses homes takes up a lot of resources. This could be a solution. This could be budgeted into the region landscaping budget. 

In conclusion, A build tool built into the homes would be optimal, plus with the home controller projects can be saved into the inventory and shared like other enhancements have done; adding to the economy of the world. so these magical objects would have to be mod copy and transfer and when taken gone to cod and copy no transfer. the logistics would need to be refined a bit more. 

[benchthis]

4 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:

There were already a lot of complaints from some land owners when Bellisseria opened because so many people decided that a Linden Home was finally nice enough that keeping a rental on the side was no longer necessary for one's Second Lifestyle. 

Most residents I know are a fan of Linden Lab & Second Life. We are not fans of strangers and rules they have. LL/SL can not coast by with how things have been for a long time. This is a business after all. The objective is to please fans and grow. Some people are more fans of greed and that is changing. Most of us are experienced professionals. Experienced. Not going to please everyone. If SL takes a hit cause land babies bail great, rehab the land and expand linden homes.

[Marianne Little]

Build tools in the houses - isn't it a limit to how many scripts it can be in a home controller?

I think LL can include more parts in the content packs. I was very verbal and not happy about the glued on terraces in Newbrooke. Sorry @Patch LindenI could have been less harsh. I still mean that it would be better to have a couple of terraces we could place where we want, or opt out of using them.

If this was done for other homes, more terraces would be of these mole made, and the same meshes and textures repeated in the regions. Instead of all other textures.

And I would like to have mole made walls in the content pack. We already have doors, so walls is next step? The same textures and trims as in the permanent walls. Those who select the open floorplan can put in a small bath or enclose a corner kitchen, with walls that match perfectly.

No need to add scripts, just put these parts in the content pack. A couple of walls in different lengths and door openings, some in the middle, some on the side.

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Marianne Little

[Marisa Starbrook]

On 3/31/2023 at 11:46 AM, Nika Talaj said:

As LL builds out more inventory, this becomes more and more a desirable feature.  I used to be able to trade properties between alts by timing the abandon carefully, but for most of the themes that's now almost impossible, because there are already so many properties enqueued and available.

The only way I can think of to reliably move an alt's LH to your main is to make your main P+ for a month, and arrange with support to claim the home as soon as you abandon it.  I've never tried that, but I assume it could be done.  If your main is on a yearly renewal, tho, you could end up essentially losing months of Premium stipends.

What I was thinking, Nika, that it would be a feature offered in Premium Plus. People are already allowed to choose an available Linden home by filing a support ticket. I don't know if it's actually feasible for Linden Lab to transfer a Linden home from one account to another. I've won and lost some homes in the past when I've tried flipping houses between my alts and myself. With all the new regions being released (especially houseboats), it's definitely harder to hand off a particular parcel. There's no guarantee that you'll get the home you've requested in a ticket. Sometimes those get claimed through the normal queue before support is able to assign the house. That's already happened to me. The more I contemplate it, I think it could be a headache for Linden Lab. Would both accounts need to be Premium Plus? Hmmmm

[Eirynne Sieyes]

On 4/3/2023 at 1:16 PM, benchthis said:

There's so many users expressing desire for more building resources, without increasing the land impact allowance. An update to the given home can provide bonus object depending on the home. If the linden home is lower prim that would increase the amount of prims the home will allow builders to mod. Would be basic shapes. That way builders can do their perfecting of home design with shapes while teaching them how to build better. I know all those mesh linked shapes we use to make our houses homes takes up a lot of resources. This could be a solution. This could be budgeted into the region landscaping budget. 

 

The homes in Belli are built by master builders who know exactly what they are doing. Yes, the homes tend to be a little prim heavy because they have excellent level of detail (LOD). That is, the homes don't disappear when you zoom out, nor does the landscaping. Maybe down the road as the technology progresses, lower li homes with this LOD will be possible. 

I appreciate that the homes are calculated such that they do not count against your parcel allotment.

[benchthis]

4 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

The homes in Belli are built by master builders who know exactly what they are doing. Yes, the homes tend to be a little prim heavy because they have excellent level of detail (LOD). That is, the homes don't disappear when you zoom out, nor does the landscaping. Maybe down the road as the technology progresses, lower li homes with this LOD will be possible. 

I appreciate that the homes are calculated such that they do not count against your parcel allotment.

No doubt, but if they were to say add a different controller to the home to maybe provide more built in building cool stuff might be neat if not o well was just another failed attempt at using my imagination again. 

[diamond Marchant]

Everyone should accept that the Bellisseria paradigm is what it is and it is not changing. These are “value homes” intended to convert basic residents into paying residents. If you are the “please Sir, may I have more” type, you are expected to roll your own in not-Bellisseria.

Also, I speculate that Patch et al are wishing that they had not created the pick your home perk for PP. It violated the paradigm and has unfortunate consequences. Hopefully it will be repealed when the paradigm-compliant 2048 PP homes are released.

Edited April 5, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[benchthis]

1 hour ago, benchthis said:

No doubt, but if they were to say add a different controller to the home to maybe provide more built in building cool stuff might be neat if not o well was just another failed attempt at using my imagination again. 

would be entertaining to be able to have built in building blocks to the homes that users may save ,home interior design, for later moods. Like for halloween fun houses, oh a stack of 50 extra prim cubes per house would be good start. You know for porch railings and drop ceilings walls. from there people can make step by step fun videos about how to use the cubes for each home style all the powers the cube can do. This amazing interior could be yours! step by step interior mods. maybe exterior mods videos too. 

after bootcamp at welcome islands cyber cafe they are given a computer similar to this, that they can use to watch youtube videos. they can have it hand held or hud mode toggle for better build teaching ease. 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by benchthis

[Aethelwine]

On 3/30/2023 at 6:57 PM, Lydia Amethyst said:

Not if you can't afford it. Some of us are comfortable with our little linden homes, we just want the premium plus ones we're paying for, considering you can't find an affordable piece of mainland these days.

A couple of weeks ago there was affordable land for sale on the North East side of the sea of fables, possibly there still is. There is nice affordable mainland available if you look elsewhere than the Blake Sea 

[Marianne Little]

4 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

A couple of weeks ago there was affordable land for sale on the North East side of the sea of fables, possibly there still is. There is nice affordable mainland available if you look elsewhere than the Blake Sea 

Not to derail so much, I just want to say that one has to dedicate a lot of time searching for affordable land, and be prepared to be disappointed in size and location. If abandoned land showed up on the maps, it would be a good option. Sadly it does not. Many plots have also very strange shapes. It is 1200 m abandoned land next to me in Farshore. It is not square, but long and narrow. And on 100% water, so you need to consider if you want to build with landscaping mesh.

Linden Homes is so very easy, as long as it ones to select on the homes page. This matter to many.

[Lydia Amethyst]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:01 AM, Matthieu Quander said:

The economic harm would primarily be to those in SL who offer rentals.  One of the primary benefits of renting parcels on mainland or private estates is that the LI allowances are often very generous.  If the LI allowances in Linden Homes reach a point where they are directly competing with rentals, then it potentially impacts the SL economy and eventually, the LL revenue stream. 

There were already a lot of complaints from some land owners when Bellisseria opened because so many people decided that a Linden Home was finally nice enough that keeping a rental on the side was no longer necessary for one's Second Lifestyle. 

For LL to make money, and thus for SL to continue existing, all forms of land ownership need to remain economically viable.  As others have stated many times, the Linden Homes available to Premium account holders were initially intended to be starter  homes.  The overwhelming success of Bellisseria has called that statement into question, but the sentiment remains that they are not supposed to be the pinnacle of SL home/land ownership, even if they fill that need for some.  

Okay but not everybody is going to run to linden homes when they can get a better deal renting - I feel like this point is kind of invalid, just saying. I just want 2048 homes because decorating with 351 prims is impossible to use good furniture without the rest of house being bare.