I guess you guys are right. "Hubs" and "welcome areas" are a no-go

[Gopi Passiflora]

Another reflection topic by yours truly. Maybe a bit unorganized and have the wrong word choice, but I hope you get the point. Again, I hope this post isn't perceived as spamming or trolling.

To mods: I know I've been making a lot of topics about similar subjects recently. If you wish to close one of them to avoid clutter, please close the "IM bait" one.

I guess there's two sides of me that you guys may be familiar with, if you've interacted with me on these forums (and perhaps in Second Life itself):

One is the good side that's honest, empathetic, compassionate, and sensitive to many others. Some of you remarked that I exhibit those qualities, and while I don't doubt that, I must admit on the flip-side of the coin I also have a bad side. I could be a bit of a petty troll, especially if I'm provoked by a perceived slight. I'm willing to admit that, though, and I will say that for some of my trolling "victims", I'm not sorry. (But that may change with time.) 

It's my bad side that drew me to find social areas where people could troll and mess around. You can say I was inspired by the various trolling Youtube videos that I've seen. I admit laughing at those videos and figured that I, too, could replicate the antics that they did. I've gotten into a little bit of trouble (thankfully, not too much.)

I've been reading these forums for a while though, ever since I joined SL for good in 2017. I read words of people who are way more intelligent, articulate, honest and compassionate than I am, and honestly I'm impressed. I made a topic recently about how SL improved your real-life, and I'd say a big deal of knowledge for both cases came from these forums. For the wise and kind ones, I can't thank you enough.

There's one aspect that I didn't listen to you guys on though, and that's on the topic of social hubs and welcome areas. I figured that the trolling, fighting, and other antics present there (both given and taken) wouldn't affect me enough, but perhaps it really did. I guess you can say the hubs cultivated my bad side a bit too much. It made me less empathetic and compassionate than I'd like to be. And the slights I encountered ( yes, the unsolicited IMs and general douchiness for example) only fueled the fire.

A bit more recent reading in this forum made me question my actions. As a result, I think that maybe you guys are right...maybe these so-called "hub" and  "welcome areas" aren't worth hanging out in anymore. If I want to enjoy Second Life in a wholesome manner and find decent conversation while living as my various avatars, I'd have to look elsewhere. One where I avoid anything that could trigger or provoke me, but at the same time, have a satisfying experience.

Speaking of the word "wholesome"...maybe that's what I really should focus on: a more wholesome experience. One that isn't at the expense of others. Maybe if I focus on this, Second Life would be an even better experience (not that it isn't already.)

[PheebyKatz]

The whole point of welcome areas is to grow out of them. It's why you can't return to the first island once you teleport away the first time.

Places like that get stagnant and people act like jerks, because they stay there too long, just because they know there are always people there, and they're easily bored. The easily bored often lack imagination, and end up frustrated when presented with something like a big open virtual world where you build a life for yourself. It's what we make of it, and some don't really make much of things like this, other than kvetching or trying to ruin other people's fun because they feel that if they can't have fun why should anyone else be allowed to.

The ones who never graduate are the ones who dont have enough friends in the wild to keep them occupied, or dont have places to go practice building and stuff. They have nothing better to do than amuse themselves as best they know how, including annoying people who are trying to learn and socialize in here and make friends, which is probably why some of them don't have enough friends in enough outer places to keep them busy.

I used to hang around newbie-helper sims, until I realized just how toxic they are when they're filled with oldbies waiting to argue over who's superior every time someone new shows up. They aren't there to help newbies, they're there because people go there, and they have a better chance of getting attention and impressing people who don't know any better than to be impressed by them for having been in for longer than they have.

Edited October 28, 2022 by PheebyKatz

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

35 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

Another reflection topic by yours truly. Maybe a bit unorganized and have the wrong word choice, but I hope you get the point. Again, I hope this post isn't perceived as spamming or trolling.

To mods: I know I've been making a lot of topics about similar subjects recently. If you wish to close one of them to avoid clutter, please close the "IM bait" one.

I guess there's two sides of me that you guys may be familiar with, if you've interacted with me on these forums (and perhaps in Second Life itself):

One is the good side that's honest, empathetic, compassionate, and sensitive to many others. Some of you remarked that I exhibit those qualities, and while I don't doubt that, I must admit on the flip-side of the coin I also have a bad side. I could be a bit of a petty troll, especially if I'm provoked by a perceived slight. I'm willing to admit that, though, and I will say that for some of my trolling "victims", I'm not sorry. (But that may change with time.) 

It's my bad side that drew me to find social areas where people could troll and mess around. You can say I was inspired by the various trolling Youtube videos that I've seen. I admit laughing at those videos and figured that I, too, could replicate the antics that they did. I've gotten into a little bit of trouble (thankfully, not too much.)

I've been reading these forums for a while though, ever since I joined SL for good in 2017. I read words of people who are way more intelligent, articulate, honest and compassionate than I am, and honestly I'm impressed. I made a topic recently about how SL improved your real-life, and I'd say a big deal of knowledge for both cases came from these forums. For the wise and kind ones, I can't thank you enough.

There's one aspect that I didn't listen to you guys on though, and that's on the topic of social hubs and welcome areas. I figured that the trolling, fighting, and other antics present there (both given and taken) wouldn't affect me enough, but perhaps it really did. I guess you can say the hubs cultivated my bad side a bit too much. It made me less empathetic and compassionate than I'd like to be. And the slights I encountered ( yes, the unsolicited IMs and general douchiness for example) only fueled the fire.

I used to enjoy hanging out at some of the infohubs back when they were a little more populated (and some of the folks I met while doing so have gone on to become my closest friends inside and outside of SL) but there was almost always a group of regulars there and among them would be the obligatory "mean kids" whose sole purpose for being there seemed to be bullying and ridiculing anyone that happened to catch their attention, they'd wait for some poor unsuspecting newbie to approach them or say something in local chat or even just accidentally bump into someone and then proceed to berate and belittle them until they left.

It was essentially the troll equivalent of spawn camping and, apologies for the mixed metaphor, the very definition of "punching down at fish in a barrel", standing around waiting in a welcome area where new people are forcibly sent to just so they could amuse themselves by trying to make them feel as unwelcome as possible until their victim worked out how to get away from them.

57 minutes ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

A bit more recent reading in this forum made me question my actions. As a result, I think that maybe you guys are right...maybe these so-called "hub" and  "welcome areas" aren't worth hanging out in anymore. If I want to enjoy Second Life in a wholesome manner and find decent conversation while living as my various avatars, I'd have to look elsewhere. One where I avoid anything that could trigger or provoke me, but at the same time, have a satisfying experience.

Speaking of the word "wholesome"...maybe that's what I really should focus on: a more wholesome experience. One that isn't at the expense of others. Maybe if I focus on this, Second Life would be an even better experience (not that it isn't already.)

I do still hang out at welcome areas from time to time but only when I'm in the mood to talk to random strangers, answer questions and fend off the occasional misguided and over-amorous IMs.  Honestly if you're looking for a "wholesome" experience then spending time at a welcome area isn't a bad idea, as long as you go there with the intent of being helpful and welcoming you'll find that you can meet some pretty nice people and maybe help to make some newbies first few hours a more positive experience.

[PheebyKatz]

10 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

...as long as you go there with the intent of being helpful and welcoming you'll find that you can meet some pretty nice people and maybe help to make some newbies first few hours a more positive experience.

This is the only good reason I can think of. Helping a new person to have a good experience inworld, and get a good start on a Second Life.

It is the most gratifying thing of all, being able to help someone through being new. Being someone's mentor and friend is also a great way to show them a wider SL than the welcome areas, and teach them things like finding someone by their dot, etc., by exploring sims together, and helping them build a circle of friends.

I was lucky, I had that. So for about a year or so, I paid it forward and helped as many new people as I could. Some of them still turned out to be turkey-turds, but it doesn't matter. Helping them is the thing, they decide their own fates. It's their SL.

Edited October 28, 2022 by PheebyKatz

[Akane Nacht]

If you hang around a place with bad vibes, of course it will affect you. Just like reading gloomy news all day and never looking at something funny or pretty. Go find nice places - they tend to draw nice people. Then if you do feel like visiting your old haunts at some point in future, you'll have a more balanced perspective. 

[Conifer Dada]

I don't use 'voice' and I nearly always have it turned off. But I went to one welcome area where voice is allowed and had a listen. My conclusion was that the craziness of welcome areas without voice is nothing compared to what they are with voice !!

Edited October 28, 2022 by Conifer Dada

[PheebyKatz]

1 minute ago, Conifer Dada said:

I don't use 'voice' and I nearly always have it turned off. But I went to one welcome area where voice is allowed and had a listen. My conclusion was that the craziness of welcome areas without voice in nothing compared to what they are with voice !!

And way harder for anyone to focus in. A lot of people, even who aren't new at all, find it difficult to follow local chat, IMs, and voice simultaneously. It can be a huge cognitive dissonance overload for some, also. The worst for me was that sometimes I could only hear one part of a voice conversation, and not the other, while typing like mad and feeling like dirt for not being able to participate at the same level, because only a tenth of what I typed was even seen by anyone, mingled in with all the chat spam.

Block parties are fine, but I usually find the conversation is better the further I get from the chaotic nexus. And I like typing. Most people I associate with regularly only use voice to do live story readings, anyway.

[Rat Luv]

I just found those areas boring...I hate loud noises and people yelling on mic 🥴

But in their defence...I did like playing the trivia machine at Bear and earning money 🤑 And they were great places, as a noob, to check out what others were wearing and then look it up on MP (or XStreet back then).

Edited October 28, 2022 by Rat Luv

[hadleycookie]

I made the mistake of going to a welcome area because it was advertised as newcomer friendly. I thought, hey! I'm a newcomer! and marched my merry way over to it. Upon landing, I was greeted by an auditory assault of many voices, arguing and cursing one another out. I quickly left. I wasn't sure if maybe I just happened to land in at the wrong time, but it seems if this thread is anything to go by that these places are just pretty bad in general. I'll avoid them in the future.

[Lewis Luminos]

Most of the "welcome areas" are dreadful, Social Island 10 is the worst, but there are a couple of others that I do always recommend. 

Caledon Oxbridge and NCI Kuula.  At both of these you'll find a schedule board with some classes you can take to learn about SL. I recommend goig to both of these and doing all the classes you can possibly manage, at least once.  Outside the lecture hall at Caledon, there is a little seating area and you'll usually find a small number of people sitting there to chat., including staff/volunteers who are happy to help with any questions you may have.  Caledon is quite strictly moderated so trolls and griefers are not tolerated.

Kuula has a small sandbox where you can learn and practise building and there are usually people around who can help you get started with that. 

If you're looking for somewhere busier and more social, there's London City. I don't remember if it's voice enabled or not, but if it is, turrn it off - with 50-70 people in the region at any one time, it's not likely you'd hear a coherent word above the noise.  It can be a bit of a "pick up zone" if you have a female avatar but local chat is usually active and there are regular events around their regions. I went to one myself last week.  

[Cinos Field]

I've never actually seen a conversation at the hubs, just saying. Neither mean nor insightful.

[Bree Giffen]

I haven’t been to the welcome area in a while but I recall there were always people who were not there to help new players. They were simply attacking each other and new people would be wandering around and thinking this was representative of SL. 
 

As to those trolling videos I’m not sure those are real. People have the block button and can kick people off their land but in the videos people being trolled just engage in a voice chat? It’s unbelievable. 

[Love Zhaoying]

7 hours ago, Rat Luv said:

I just found those areas boring...I hate loud noises

Noisy Gestures, yuck!

[Rowan Amore]

I learned this around day 3.

[Istelathis]

11 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I haven’t been to the welcome area in a while but I recall there were always people who were not there to help new players.

One of my first experiences in SL, was a bunch of people standing on one area I believe on social island - some were playing music and there was an avatar in the form of a adult toy dancing.  I got a heck of a laugh out of it, but am sure others would have seen such a display of rampant chaos and promptly exited the viewer.  It definitely was unexpected, caught me by surprise, and the absolute ridiculousness of it all was hilarious to me.  

[animats]

10 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

Social Island 10 is the worst

Ah, yes, Social Island 10, the Port Authority Bus Terminal of Second Life.

The Linden-run info hubs and social islands are well built, quite attractive, and hell. Because "hell is other people". LL builds them but doesn't staff them, so they're jerk magnets. They serve the useful function of concentrating jerks and lost 'bots in places where they don't bother anyone else.

Unfortunately, nobody tells new users this. So some new users think that's the real SL. Some even think it's all of SL. I've encountered users who had no idea mainland existed.

[PheebyKatz]

13 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

Caledon Oxbridge and NCI Kuula.

Caledon I can vouch for as being completely and totally awesome for anyone who's new, and even for anyone's who's anything. They are the top of the heap, as far as I'm concerned, and have my full support. I don't even put them in the same category with the others, they're an awesome thing unto themselves. A fantastic and helpful community, and a credit to SL.

NCI left me nauseous. I couldn't even go there with my mom and baby sister without people giving us grief, creeping on one or all of us, or trolling people into thinking all of the scripted object spam they were generating was coming from one of us, when none of us even owned any of the items they claimed were doing the spamming.

I also don't like it when staff try to convert me from my faith to theirs, and that was frequent. One person in particular was dead set on making sure my entire family was safe from their faith's place of eternal punishment, even if it meant starting fights and then throwing people out for disagreeing, and having their own faith and not being willing to give it up.

My mother eventually put an end to it by getting permabanned by offending the staff member's faith, the way said staff member had offended her faith on nearly every occasion that they had met. The permanent ban put an end to all of it, because then we weren't tempted to give the place a 365,756,876,587,658th chance anymore. It just sucks though, that people with influence on a sim can act any way they want, and make people uncomfortable, but if anyone does the same back at them they can't be there anymore.

Edited October 28, 2022 by PheebyKatz

[EliseAnne85]

Get a tiny avatar or a Dinkie avatar and come visit us at Raglan Shire.  It's low key and not dramatic.  If you are only looking for slex though, Raglan Shire isn't it.   Humans are allowed sometimes but some events such as those with Dinkie seats could not hold a biggie avatar.  Open field events, everyone is welcome.  In my life, in rl and sl I want a more drama-free way of living.  

Edited October 29, 2022 by EliseAnne85