Do Religious Cults and "Secret Societies" Exist in SL?

[Love Zhaoying]

54 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

* Licking dry lips * That's quite some..stillsuit ya got there..Mr. Paul Atreides..

[AnthonyJoanne]

Let's consider secret societies.

Years ago I was indulging in some sim-hopping. You know the kind of thing ... plug a random word into the Places search and pick one of the returns and just go there to see what there is to see.

One particular hop, I arrived in a sim which had some very edgy role playing going on. I stayed in the welcome area for about 10 minutes reading the comprehensive notecards explaining exactly what was happening in the sim, clarifying a LOT of points about what was going on, and making clear what was NOT going on. The notecards were SO extensive that I found myself intrigued.

I went out into the sim and was further intrigued ... it was clearly the result of a LOT of work, and it was all very well done. I was wearing a titler which basically said "I'm just exploring. Please let me know if that's a problem" and was approached by someone who checked very closely to confirm that I had read and understood the notecards and was fully aware that this was role play. I guess I passed as they welcomed me to look around, asking that I not intrude on the active RP that was going on, etc.

Now let me be ENTIRELY clear. I have read countless TOS and EULA because, as an IT professional, it's often been my job to keep idiot users from bringing in software that is licensed only for PERSONAL use. So I am quite aware of the rules pertaining to SL. I can state that what was going on in that sim was NOT against the TOS in my opinion. But a few months later that sim was suddenly empty and available for rent ... courtesy of complaints about what was going on there.

I had some items from the sim, and was therefore able to get the name of the creator who I reached out to. He was very cautious but admitted that their group had given up trying to have a specific location to indulge in their role play. In that I wasn't part of the group, he wasn't willing to share any more than that and I understood and wished him and his group well.

Now for what I have inferred. I know that many of those avatars are still active. Some of them have updated their profiles and have clearly moved on. But many others have NOT changed their profiles in the slightest since that sim was shut down. Clearly they have found something to do, but choose not to show what it is on their profiles. I suspect that they are still doing their RP ... they are just doing it underground so that they can be left in peace to enjoy their fetish(es).

Perhaps that counts as a secret society?

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, AnthonyJoanne said:

Perhaps that counts as a secret society?

Reminds me of the classic joke about "The Aristocrats!"  That would make a great roleplay!

(There's even a movie about it, with famous comedians all telling the joke their own way.)

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Reminds me of the classic joke about "The Aristocrats!"  That would make a great roleplay!

(There's even a movie about it, with famous comedians all telling the joke their own way.)

I never saw that movie, but I saw Disney's cartoon spin-off. The Aristocats, ngl I love that movie. 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I never saw that movie, but I saw Disney's cartoon spin-off. The Aristocats, ngl I love that movie. 

The 2 are not related. "The Aristocrats" is "the dirtiest joke ever told"!

I had stuffed animals from the Aristocats - I was a cat freak. Also had the record album!

[Sammy Huntsman]

14 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The 2 are not related. "The Aristocrats" is "the dirtiest joke ever told"!

I had stuffed animals from the Aristocats - I was a cat freak. Also had the record album!

I thought it was the exact same premise, but with cats. 

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I thought it was the exact same premise, but with cats. 

Ewww!!! lol!!!! Cats "scat", this is a different "scatological"!

 

[Sprout Evergarden]

On 6/12/2022 at 6:35 AM, Amanda Crisp said:

 

I know of one such SL “cult” that believes that Chiropactic can cure almost anything (including cancer) and another that espouses the notion that our RL existence is just another immersive virtual world.

 

That last example is not cultish it is literally a Ancient question in philosophy which is part of  Epistemology(philosophy of knowing) and more specifically Physiological Skepticism which in there purest and simplest forms Asks the question "If you seances can be fooled by illusion or even the effects of disease or chemicals can you ever truly trust your five senses." While Doubting the whole of existence is a stretch Part of knowing is still keeping these questions of "Am I being fooled in the back of your mind."

One of the most famous examples of doubting existence can be found many places ever hear of Descartes and his famous quote "Cogito Ergo Sum “I am thinking, therefore I exist.”

there was other fun examples like Putnam's Brain in a Vat, Simulated reality, Descartes' Evil Demon  granted most of these are Solipsism based which argues that only one's mind is sure to exist.

 

I don't think you ran in to a cult at all when you found the simulation argument people just a Bunch of Philosaphers

[Love Zhaoying]

36 minutes ago, Vanessa Amethyst said:

there was other fun examples like Putnam's Brain in a Vat

We try not to talk about BIAV, it's a sensitive topic with all the Brains-in-vats for some reason. Second Life is their "happy place"!

[Love Zhaoying]

On 6/12/2022 at 1:17 PM, Marianne McCann said:

Feted Inner Core, not Circle.

I figured it out! You'll like this one.

It IS Ouroboros, but with the high prices lately, it's having trouble..making ends meet!

[Love Zhaoying]

42 minutes ago, Vanessa Amethyst said:

I don't think you ran in to a cult at all when you found the simulation argument people just a Bunch of Philosaphers

There's a great song on Frank Zappa's Studio Tan album, Track #1 "The Adventures of Greggery Peccary", with a segue about "The Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind"! Not a misspelling:

Narrator:
GREGGERY receives information that 'The Greatest Living PHILOSTOPHER Known to Mankind' is currently in possession of the very information in question, and, furthermore, this information could be HIS, if only GREGGERY would attend a 'SPECIAL THERAPEUTIC GROUP ASSEMBLY' (Classes now forming), and available at a special low low introductory fee . . .

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The 2 are not related. "The Aristocrats" is "the dirtiest joke ever told"!

I had stuffed animals from the Aristocats - I was a cat freak. Also had the record album!

 

Everybody wants to be a cat

Cuz a cat

Knows where it's at

Oh yeeeeaaaah

 

Toulouse #1

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, AnthonyJoanne said:

One particular hop, I arrived in a sim which had some very edgy role playing going on.

I am of course curious to know what this "edgy role play" was.

The issue of whether something violates the ToS and Community Standards is a somewhat vexed one, because these are frequently rather vague. Let's take this one, for instance:

Quote

The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images based on race, ethnicity, gender, religion or sexual orientation is prohibited. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame users or groups are similarly prohibited.  

Outright antisemitic RP, for instance, is likely to get zapped pretty quickly by LL under this rule -- and quite rightly so.

But I can point you to pretty clearly racist groups, or anti-Muslim ones, that seem to be just fine so far as LL is concerned. As for gender -- there are scores of groups and clubs with variants on "women are inferior," "women are all sl*ts," etc., given not merely as passing opinions, but as the actual raison d'etre of the groups. Here's the group profile image for one such:

Is this "derogatory or demeaning language or images based on . . . gender"?

Apparently . . . not.

[Persephone Emerald]

11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Recently I came across an elf and fairy group which has a marketplace and various activities and was surprised they still existed, as one large elf group left SL and others grew disenchanted and moved on. This group had a program of events that included Druids who have a Druid cult in RL, unabashedly described as such. So that sounded interesting.

Perhaps it's a sign of the coming recession that in RL, I see more Hare Krishna groups out on the street signing and dancing, such as on Union Square, where they had disappeared, even before COVID. But I have never seen them in SL.

RL Druids don't seek to convert people. Hare Krishnas used to, but they seemed pretty tame too. I had one hand me a book and a fake flower when I was a kid at the San Francisco airport. It was more interesting than the pamphlets JWs hand out.

[Persephone Emerald]

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Edited June 13, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/12/2022 at 10:37 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

So LL actually turns a blind eye - Well yes and no. For a time the 'moderators' or governance team, as they are known in SL, had in-world meetings. During that time several of us were able to get a sense of who they were and how they were thinking. They have rules and coordinate team members. Complex situations may trigger discussion among the team as to how to handle an issue or person.

It is hard to know exactly how well they know residents. Like RL police they get to know the troublemakers. Also, like RL police they hear so many BS excuses they get pretty good at detecting it. Also, since they get to see how things escalate they are pretty good at knowing where something is going, especially when they know the players, before it gets there.

From our side much of what we can see makes some of the decisions they make, or don't, look random. Many residents base their thinking about the team only on their personal opinion and promptly vent their dissatisfaction based on what they think with never a thought about their lacking all the facts or knowing what the response by the Lab was.

When I first came into SL it was common for residents to say the Governance Team was very biased and only responded to certain people's ARs. There were a few discussions about that from time to time in the design groups with Linden engineers. The engineers and governance teams are different groups. But the engineers consistently said the gov team read EVERY AR and took some action, as best they could tell.

The Gov Team is made up of humans. They have good and bad days. They are busy and won't bother to debate an issue. They make mistakes. They are influenced by society and culture and personal ethics.

You'll never know EXACTLY why they make some decision and even if they warn you about some transgression you are likely to be confused about what it is they are on your case about.

Political Correctness - In this day and age that is a messy subject. Many people WANT to be PC and WOKE for good reasons. But few actually think through what the ideology produces. its more a "this sounds good, I'll do that" type thing for them. The Lindens are people and subject to the PC/WOKE ideology being pushed. Everyone seems to have absorbed or rejected various parts and levels of the ideological wave sweeping over the world.

The Lindens are individuals and each one is unique. Like the rest of us some of them are awesome, sane, fair people and some are total fruit cakes. They each have biases and prejudices.

So.... how PC is the Gov Team? At best we can only guess. I observe a lean into the Woke culture. But that may be distorted by my resistance to Woke/Regressive Culture. You'll have to observe and decide how you see it.

This simply isn't true that Governance isn't biased. Of course it's biased. LL is a private company and they can do what they want.

If I file an abuse report for grief prims on physics that remain on my no-show neighbour's lawn in *October 2021* and repeat it many times later, and my tenants and neighbours report it, and I finally mention it in a MonCierge meeting where a Governance team member is present and finally returns the prims, do you think *eight months* is equal treatment?

No, of course not, when in Bellisseria, the Moles come running before the "send" button is even hit to address griefing.

And this is far from the only incident.

Like most of Linden Lab employees, the Governance people tilt left with the kind of Silicon Valley "California" belief system. They let some things go in alignment with their views, and other things they make short work of. It's to be expected. 

Of course they tend toward the "Woke" but there's a mitigating factor: Europe and Asia, where some of them are from (same with the Moles) and the American style cancel-culture and Wokeness aren't as widespread in those regions of the world.

The fact that Governance could cease its in-world meetings, unlike the numerous technical meetings and even "MonCierge", where mainly they just read out the blogs already posted, tells you all you need to know. They think these meetings are about "how to help people file an AR report",  as if we haven't been doing that for 18 years. They don't want names named and won't reply to specific situations. But that's exactly what they should do. For example, if residents complain about an invasion of obelisks all over the old Teen Grid, and reports that people are forced to abandon land near them, which the groups then seize,, they could respond: we have researched that claim and found it to be untrue. The groups are not given abandoned land, or tiny parcels in particular. We don't have any rule about placing obelisks even if they are obnoxious. (Not everyone wants to, or has the viewer, to de-render).

By coming inworld and taking responsibility for their views, and making judgement calls out loud, and answering real questions, Governance would actually help enhance governance itself. It would be a rough but beneficial court of sorts.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/12/2022 at 1:17 PM, Marianne McCann said:

Feted Inner Core, not Circle.

The FIC isn't a cult, it's a program run deliberately by Linden Lab, and is not even secret. The history of Bellisseria will have many helpful examples to prove this point.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Of course they tend toward the "Woke"

What are your examples of this?

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The FIC isn't a cult, it's a program run deliberately by Linden Lab, and is not even secret. The history of Bellisseria will have many helpful examples to prove this point.

Oh great, now I'm confusing my cults, and my conspiracies, and conspiracy theories. If only I could wake up from this, but now being awoke isn't even safe!

[Prokofy Neva]

15 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

RL Druids don't seek to convert people. Hare Krishnas used to, but they seemed pretty tame too. I had one hand me a book and a fake flower when I was a kid at the San Francisco airport. It was more interesting than the pamphlets JWs hand out.

I think most people perceive Hare Krishna as a cult as defined by Rick Ross. 

@Love Zhaoying if you think it isn't a cult, why aren't you a member of that sect and not calling yourself Hindu in the mainstream sense? You must still perceive it as "non-mainstream" at least.

I have advocated for the rights of the Hare Krishna in Russia, who are persecuted and jailed, unlike the US. One thing they did in Russia which I don't see them do as much here is make big quantities of soup and bread and pass it out to people on the street, for which Russians in the poor 1990s were very grateful.

You don't have to seek to convert people to be a cult, it's merely one sign.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

What are your examples of this?

A definition would be helpful, too. I still have no idea what that means.

Then again, it's likely off-topic, since we're discussing examples of cults in-world. Or...something. I think? 🤷‍♀️ 

This thread is somewhat confusing.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

A definition would be helpful, too. I still have no idea what that means.

Then again, it's likely off-topic, since we're discussing examples of cults in-world. Or...something. I think? 🤷‍♀️ 

This thread is somewhat confusing.

I think "cult" here has sort of generally come to mean "something I don't like" or "something to which I was not invited."

[Rowan Amore]

Sometimes, I just can't laugh hard enough.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think "cult" here has sort of generally come to mean "something I don't like" or "something to which I was not invited."

Well darn. I was genuinely interested in discussion about actual cults in SL. Maybe this is not the best place for it, but it's a fascinating subject nonetheless.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Well darn. I was genuinely interested in discussion about actual cults in SL. Maybe this is not the best place for it, but it's a fascinating subject nonetheless.

It is, but the thing about "secret societies" and such is that they tend to be, um, "secret."

Also confusing is the question of what is actually a "cult," in the sense of having RL effects (indoctrination, etc.), and what is RP. I suspect there are a great many groups that RP "being a cult," but leave it behind when they aren't actively engaged in that RP. I'm sure there are a few instances where that isn't true -- the RL Goreans mentioned above probably are pretty cultish. But that's awfully rare.

As for the other things -- the non-existent FIC, "wokeness," and even things like racist or misogynist groups -- I don't think these qualify. They are at best an articulation of a set of beliefs or assumptions.