Leaving The US -- Has Anybody Moved Or Are You Considering?

[Luna Bliss]

18 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

And oof, trying to work "normal" jobs was so brutal. Everyone around me so obsessed with making as much money as possible and all that. Gah, can't relate. Living my worst nightmare with all that, LOL. Dipping out of that environment and opting for freelancing saved me from having to be around all that on a daily basis, at least. Didn't fully bring my creative spark back, but it's less dire than it used to be. I've been able to channel a lot of creativity into SL, so that's progress!

Ahhhh, the struggle to be basic is real. 😂

We will be digital nomads.  We will!  We will!      

I've just discovered a Mexican town I like even better!  And with a great women's community along with a big dose of expats and digital nomads. And scenery to die for!  (I love the mountains). And immersive type Spanish classes (yes lock me in a room for 6 weeks and don't let me out till I speak good Spanish! lol).

And...if you can believe this...I see a lovely apartment for only $160 usd a month in the area.  That's far less than what I pay for home insurance only ($250 usd monthly) on this modest sized house in tornado and flood country, jacking up insurance prices.

[Arielle Popstar]

7 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I notice your link says 26,000 people died due to lack of health insurance but if you scroll down, it says a study in 2009 found 46,000 people died due to lack of health insurance. So I guess there must be dramatic improvement, eh? 

What is kind of interesting is that a John Hopkins study found that 

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000. Link

So 10 times as many people die from having access to medical care as opposed to not having it. Makes one wonder if access is such a good thing.

[Luna Bliss]

18 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

And oof, trying to work "normal" jobs was so brutal. Everyone around me so obsessed with making as much money as possible and all that. Gah, can't relate. Living my worst nightmare with all that, LOL.

When interacting with people from other countries outside the US one begins to see not all people are as focused on making money. The US does seem to be, in general, obsessed... even after basic needs are met. There are certainly those in other countries also obsessed, but overall they seem less focused on the rat race to the top.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

When interacting with people from other countries outside the US one begins to see not all people are as focused on making money. The US does seem to be, in general, obsessed... even after basic needs are met. Not that there are those in other countries also obsessed, but overall they seem less focused on the rat race to the top.

If people in other countries were not to some degree motivated to make money, they wouldn't be flooding your borders, especially from the south. But in relation to the topic, it strikes me that south of the USA must be relatively cheap to retire to for us up in the northern areas since so many are leaving/escaping the central and southern americas..

[Lindal Kidd]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

...south of the USA must be relatively cheap to retire to for us up in the northern areas...

Warmer areas, in general, tend to have lower costs of living, although there are exceptions (Southern California, Dubai, Miami, etc.)

[Luna Bliss]

16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

8 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I notice your link says 26,000 people died due to lack of health insurance but if you scroll down, it says a study in 2009 found 46,000 people died due to lack of health insurance. So I guess there must be dramatic improvement, eh? 

What is kind of interesting is that a John Hopkins study found that 

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000. Link

So 10 times as many people die from having access to medical care as opposed to not having it. Makes one wonder if access is such a good thing.

There's an important variable that needs to be included in your analysis though -- how many did not die because they were able to receive treatment.

[Luna Bliss]

24 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

29 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

When interacting with people from other countries outside the US one begins to see not all people are as focused on making money. The US does seem to be, in general, obsessed... even after basic needs are met. Not that there are those in other countries also obsessed, but overall they seem less focused on the rat race to the top.

If people in other countries were not to some degree motivated to make money, they wouldn't be flooding your borders, especially from the south. But in relation to the topic, it strikes me that south of the USA must be relatively cheap to retire to for us up in the northern areas since so many are leaving/escaping the central and southern americas..

To a degree they're motivated to make more money and so head north to seek a better life, true, but when the minimum wage for the entire day is only approximately 8 dollars (not per hour, but for the entire day) why wouldn't they be? And this is a recent increase.  (It's a bit higher closer to the US border though).

It's usually those in Mexico who are professionally untrained and poor who attempt the trek (along with almost half of those at the southern border being those from Central America still reeling from the devastation we caused there).

The thing is, many from Mexico return after spending time in the US. Statistics show this, and anecdotally I've even known 3 neighbor families who returned. They did not find the US so welcoming, and did not like the loss of cultural values they had in Mexico -- these values were more important than the extra money they obtained here.

It's not cheaper to retire to due to those leaving Mexico and Central America (and not as many are leaving as you might imagine too). Mainly it's cheaper because they don't have corporations jacking up the prices there.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Ayashe Ninetails]

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

We will be digital nomads.  We will!  We will!      

I've just discovered a Mexican town I like even better!  And with a great women's community along with a big dose of expats and digital nomads. And scenery to die for!  (I love the mountains). And immersive type Spanish classes (yes lock me in a room for 6 weeks and don't let me out till I speak good Spanish! lol).

And...if you can believe this...I see a lovely apartment for only $160 usd a month in the area.  That's far less than what I pay for home insurance only ($250 usd monthly) on this modest sized house in tornado and flood country, jacking up insurance prices.

Damn...that's cheap, lol. I don't even think I've ever visited a place (yet) with rentals in that range. Trinidad is probably the closest and that's...like...ehhh $500 or so to thousands upon thousands a month, depending on the region.

That sounds like a great deal, though! You should go visit and check things out. Having easy access to Spanish classes is going to prove invaluable, too, as well as an expat community for support.

 

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

When interacting with people from other countries outside the US one begins to see not all people are as focused on making money. The US does seem to be, in general, obsessed... even after basic needs are met. There are certainly those in other countries also obsessed, but overall they seem less focused on the rat race to the top.

This is so true, too. In the places where I've been, I just haven't found that same obsession with it. Sure, people want to make money. That's natural. But living out here is a whole other ballgame when it costs thousands of dollars to rent in the worst neighborhoods and for some reason, everybody's on that Audi and BMW grind (ugh they are hideous, whyyyyyy????!!!).

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Also I'll note that before you have "Medicare for All" you need "Medicare for Seniors". Currently there is an army of predatory middlemen in the form of "advisers" and health insurance companies that offer all sorts of "extra" and "advantage" plans that in fact cost you more money. The government should administer this government-funded program, fully. With computerization and Congressional oversight, there would be as much scrutiny as there is of the IRS.

Well I agree with this at least.  Many believe Medicare for seniors is free, when in reality it takes almost $400 dollars monthly to be fully insured, as there's almost $200 taken out of the Social Security check each month for hospital care, and supplemental policies must be purchased or one is severely underinsured and liable for huge medical bills if one needs drugs or outpatient care. The alternative, Medicare Advantage, is a scam, leaving people with obscene bills. 

If you're very poor though, with few assets (less than $3,000 or so in savings) and little income you can qualify for dual Medicare and Medicaid, and this provides decent coverage.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Alwin Alcott]

Quote

Leaving The US -- Has Anybody Moved Or Are You Considering?

did anyone actually leave during this 17 pages?

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

Quote

Leaving The US -- Has Anybody Moved Or Are You Considering?

did anyone actually leave during this 17 pages?

So you actually think it's that easy to leave...just jump to it without vast amounts of preparation?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

did anyone actually leave during this 17 pages?

No idea, but some did share their experiences (both positive and negative) with relocating abroad. Several discussed moving to Canada, a few of us to the UK, etc.

[Luna Bliss]

I fixed some of the words and reposted.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

On 5/25/2022 at 8:52 AM, Luna Bliss said:

I'm speaking to patriarchal systems which allow murder. Technically the definition of murder states it must be premeditated. I do believe this is a reality in our system.

Patriarchy (a stratified society where there are permanent underclass citizens who suffer with less of the rights and goods the higher classes take advantage of) causes those on the lower rungs to suffer and die. The US is the pinnacle of patriarchy. We value the tough individual, embodied in a corporation, who smashes down on others on a rise to the top, much more than we value and desire to help those less fortunate...and we allow this 'individual' to take far too much in the name of freedom.
This is reflected in our healthcare system where we allow many on the bottom rungs to die or suffer with inadequate coverage:

https://tinyurl.com/2jyhsf2a

Expand  

Well, you've articulated your beliefs which I don't believe in, just as I don't believe the US is now turning into a Margaret Atwood novel where women will all be cloaked like your forums avatar. 

How would you describe the way in which our society is structured then? You see no levels where some have more at the top while those on lower levels do with without or have much less in terms of money and rights?

They may not be forcing women to wear red cloaks, but they are certainly controlling women severely, and are attempting to take as many rights from them and other groups as they can -- the groups they disapprove of -- starting with women, on to the ability to obtain c-o-n-t-r-a-c-e-p-t-i-o-n, on to LGBTQ+ rights.

Women in Oklahoma are now unable to obtain an a-b-o-r-t-i-o-n once conception occurs. Bounty hunters can sue those who are aiding people who help women obtain an a-b-o-r-t-i-o-n in 2 states, soon to spread to more states after Roe is overturned, ranging from doctors to Uber drivers who aid women, and will receive $10,000 dollars for a conviction. Data can be purchased which reveals those who came near family planning clinics (via phones) in states still allowing a-b-o-r-t-i-o-n in the earliest weeks. Women are being arrested for having a miscarriage or stillborn birth. Efforts are underway to trap women in their state of residence so they can't cross state lines to obtain an a-b-o-r-t-i-o-n in a state where a-b-o-r-t-i-o-n is legal. Women are being forced into birth even if their pregnancy occurs from r-a-p-e or i-n-c-e-s-t. Efforts are underway to criminalize women for having a-b-o-r-t-i-o-n-s, charged with murder and so serving many years.

There's even more egregious laws being proposed by legislators. Truly, the country has gone crazy.  I've got to get out of here.
 

[Luna Bliss]

Oh wow...hadn't heard about this new law in Idaho until now...it gets worse and worse:

"The Idaho law allows the father, grandparents, siblings, aunts and uncles of a "preborn child" to each sue an abortion provider for a minimum of $20,000 in damages within four years after the abortion. R-a-p-i-s-t-s can't file a lawsuit under the law, but a r-a-p-i-s-t-s relatives could".

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-governor-signs-texas-style-abortion-bill-that-would-let-potential-family-members-sue/

[sirhc DeSantis]

6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Oh wow...hadn't heard about this new law in Idaho until now...it gets worse and worse:

"The Idaho law allows the father, grandparents, siblings, aunts and uncles of a "preborn child" to each sue an abortion provider for a minimum of $20,000 in damages within four years after the abortion. R-a-p-i-s-t-s can't file a lawsuit under the law, but a r-a-p-i-s-t-s relatives could".

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-governor-signs-texas-style-abortion-bill-that-would-let-potential-family-members-sue/

Remind me which country you live in again?

You do not pay attention?

[Luna Bliss]

14 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Oh wow...hadn't heard about this new law in Idaho until now...it gets worse and worse:

"The Idaho law allows the father, grandparents, siblings, aunts and uncles of a "preborn child" to each sue an abortion provider for a minimum of $20,000 in damages within four years after the abortion. R-a-p-i-s-t-s can't file a lawsuit under the law, but a r-a-p-i-s-t-s relatives could".

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/idaho-governor-signs-texas-style-abortion-bill-that-would-let-potential-family-members-sue/

Expand  

Remind me which country you live in again?

You do not pay attention?

Some might say I pay too much attention. There are 50 states, each with their own laws, being proposed or coming into existence, and currently at a rapid pace because it's more important than ever these days to keep marginalized people in their place.

[Brightstar7777]

They just shut the last abortion clinic here, state attorneys general gunning to end the injunction against an 1864 Arizona Territory (pre US-integration) law in order to bring criminal charges against doctors who provide women with access to basic universal reproductive health care. 

It seems silly that I wound up here for a job. I guess that I told myself, "Oh, they're human beings. They'll behave civilized. In the end, all that stuff they say must just be political posturing for the cameras." No, these guys are pathological and dangerous and they control things they mustn't be allowed to here in this place regardless of the widespread recognition of borderless and universal human rights. 

Quote

Arizona Revised Statute 13-3603, which states:

"A person who provides, supplies or administers to a pregnant woman, or procures such woman to take any medicine, drugs or substance, or uses or employs any instrument or other means whatever, with intent thereby to procure the miscarriage of such woman, unless it is necessary to save her life, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not less than two years nor more than five years."

Here's a picture of a real actual prison in Arizona, it is not some movie set of atrocities long past.

 

I think everyone who lives somewhere with gender inequity should get up and move to a better place, but some of us really need help and support making that leap, finding employment, finding housing, finding a society to integrate with in a new community. It's easier for me to commit to that jump right now because I'm mid-transition on so many things anyway, it makes sense to continue in a more nurturing social and political environment, assuming that I can find such a situation, recognize it, and make the leap across the logistical gap despite everything.

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Brightstar7777

[NevaehHeartstrings]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:10 AM, Luna Bliss said:

This is a breakaway from the Pet Peeve thread where people are discussing leaving the US.  Has anybody done so, or are you contemplating a move? Or do you have information about other countries that could be useful?

I'm considering a move to Mexico.

Mexico like many countries are constantly being destabilized by the US Government who follow policies set in the 1950's to keep most of the world destabilized including Latin America to ensure US Global Hegemony regardless of what political party is in power.  the more Americans move to Mexico in the next few years your going to see double or triple the cost of living there combined with rising inflation and a much weaker dollar that you might get from retirement funding. 

Your better choice would be someplace in rural isolated America even Alaska or cut the ambilocal cord completely and move to South America. one of the small rural nations that is not on the government list to "bring democracy" AKA does not have physical resources some american government clowns business friends want. 

Your ahead of the curve Luna whatever you do getting out will be the best choice you could make. many places in SA have weather and climate patterns very close to the US Midwest and lots of English speakers as well.

In SA you can still play SL as many countries have better Internet service then in the US.

Good Luck and God Bless.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 hours ago, Brightstar7777 said:

I think everyone who lives somewhere with gender inequity should get up and move to a better place, but some of us really need help and support making that leap, finding employment, finding housing, finding a society to integrate with in a new community

This issue of mobility is a big one: those who are mostly likely to be victimized by laws targeting women and LGBTQ+ people are precisely those who lack the resources to seek healthcare out-of-state, yet alone move somewhere else. And now many states are trying to restrict the mobility of women further: there are literally suggestions that the movement of pregnant women across state boundaries be restricted, to prevent out-of-state abortions.

Meanwhile, the AG for Indiana has announced that the state is "going after" the doctor who provided an abortion to the 10 year old child who had to flee there from Ohio because was impregnated by her rapist (the child who supposedly doesn't exist, except we now know she does). Because of course a 10 year old should be forced to give birth to her rapist's child, right? Again, this is targeting the mobility of women (and girls).

Healthcare in the US for women, and especially pregnant non-white women, is literally the worst in the developed world. As of 2020, the maternal mortality rate for women in the US was literally three times higher than worst cases elsewhere (France and, sadly, Canada). For US black women it is eight times higher. (Source, which uses 2020 CDC data for the US)

The overturning of Roe v. Wade is about to make those figures a whole lot worse.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

On the subject of mobility in the US . . .
 

"Senator James Lankford (R-OK) just blocked an attempt by Democrats to ban states from outlawing women traveling to another state to get an abortion. Lankford has previously testified that he thinks 13-year-old girls can consent to sex. 'Yes, I think they can.'”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/senate-abortion-roe-v-wade-travel_n_62cffc22e4b0e6251b39738a

Lankford supports a national ban on abortions. Apparently this isn't really about "states rights."

[Rowan Amore]

29 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

On the subject of mobility in the US . . .
 

"Senator James Lankford (R-OK) just blocked an attempt by Democrats to ban states from outlawing women traveling to another state to get an abortion. Lankford has previously testified that he thinks 13-year-old girls can consent to sex. 'Yes, I think they can.'”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/senate-abortion-roe-v-wade-travel_n_62cffc22e4b0e6251b39738a

Lankford supports a national ban on abortions. Apparently this isn't really about "states rights."

Next thing, all women will have to have their 'papers' in order to be able to travel.  Sound vaguely familiar to anyone?

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Sounds like the old days when Irish women used to cross the Irish Sea by ferry to the UK, "to visit their aunties"....

Edited July 14, 2022 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Ayashe Ninetails]

This isn't quite on the topic of leaving the US, but it involves driving around in the US so...close enough? 

You guys heard this story yet?

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/watchdog/2022/07/08/pregnant-woman-says-her-fetus-should-count-as-a-passenger-in-hov-lanes-she-got-a-ticket/

And update:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/watchdog/2022/07/11/update-pregnant-plano-hov-lanes-protesters-story-goes-around-the-world/

I'm actually quite curious how this will turn out and what impact it might have (if any). 

[Sammy Huntsman]

I actually want to move to the US in the future to be with my partner.