Looking for a supported body like Slink Original Redux.

[Anna Nova]

I got fed up with my Maitreya Lara body, looking at @Beq Janusnumbers, it is just a resource hog due to the alpha-cuts I guess.

I tried the Slink Physique original, and I love it,  it scores about 5th of the resources on Beq's numbers, but almost all (including Blueberry) have dropped it for some reason.

I will not even consider a body with huge butt and boobs, I need something adult, but not 'curvy', and it needs to score low on Beq's.

I am using the Slink for now, but no new clothes.   What to do?

Edited April 29, 2022 by Anna Nova
remembered to use the @....

[steeljane42]

5 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

I am using the Slink for now, but no new clothes.   What to do?

Option 1: Buy/wear old clothes and forget about new releases.

Option 2: Forget about the "numbers are bad" thing and just use one of the supported bodies.

Option 3: Wait until someone makes the light-weight body that also get some serious support (read as: gets an enormous PR company). Hint: In already oversaturated market it might be quite a long wait, besides latest two successful bodies being reborn and kupra should point on what kind of bodies the market after.

Option 4: Move to the nude beaches.

Best supported bodies on the market are maitreya, legacy and reborn. The former two sometimes have petite/perky sizes too, but it's the same-ish thing anyway. Kupra is still somewhat supported and due to the lack of the alpha cuts is down that list (still uses far too many triangles/vertices, though), but it's way into the "huge boobs and butt" territory. Freya still gets some rare love, but not much and is "bad" due to the alpha cuts.

Edited April 29, 2022 by steeljane42
Typos

[Ze Helix]

If you love physique but haven't owned it for long, you may be contented with many awesome older outfits there are for it. Depending on your shopping habits you could find several hundred outfits that still look great. If you like, still buy the occasional new maitreya release that you just have to have, but only wear that body once in awhile when you know you'll be somewhere low lag and the numbers won't bother you as much.

[Anna Nova]

I think I am an @steeljane42Option 1 and @Ze Helixperson now.  For new purchases anyway.

It was following Beq's advice to wear the Slink to clothes fares that led to this, Oh well.  It will be a whole lot cheaper to spend my time rediscovering my old clothes, and set up the slink-rigged version.  Fortunately I archive almost everything.

What would really be good would be a Maitreya release with an optional no-cuts version, but I am not holding my breath.

[Nalates Urriah]

 @Anna Nova There are Slink clothes out there. Most of what Blueberry and Scandalize make can be found at Addams. There are lots of other places. Join the Slink groups and ask. I am buying something Slink every week. (Should be some THINGS...) All my photos in the Look Today/Now threads are with a Slink body. I think I am well dressed.

I have changed my shopping habits. Cosmopolitan is no longer a weekly, and barely a monthly, stop on my shopping therapy days. The weekend sales are a constant source of new, to me, designers making Slink clothes. And I do see people making things for Maitreya that I would like to have. But a little patience and I find something similar else where.

I am thinking about making some new stuff for Slink now that Cinnamon & Chai bodies are out. We'll see...

[Persephone Emerald]

11 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

Option 1: Buy/wear old clothes and forget about new releases.

Option 2: Forget about the "numbers are bad" thing and just use one of the supported bodies.

Option 3: Wait until someone makes the light-weight body that also get some serious support (read as: gets an enormous PR company). Hint: In already oversaturated market it might be quite a long wait, besides latest two successful bodies being reborn and kupra should point on what kind of bodies the market after.

Option 4: Move to the nude beaches.

Best supported bodies on the market are maitreya, legacy and reborn. The former two sometimes have petite/perky sizes too, but it's the same-ish thing anyway. Kupra is still somewhat supported and due to the lack of the alpha cuts is down that list (still uses far too many triangles/vertices, though), but it's way into the "huge boobs and butt" territory. Freya still gets some rare love, but not much and is "bad" due to the alpha cuts.

I'm guessing from the OP's original choice of SLink that she likes a slimmer body, but Freya is still pretty well supported and it's numbers can be reduced nearly by half by using the free Belleza Optimizer Script on the modifiable version now included with all the Belleza bodies. This script strips off the 3 applier layers, so the body can only use BOM, rather than appliers.

Blueberry and Addams both make clothes for Freya. Most other stores have at least some older clothes that fit Freya. It was popular before Kupra and may be having a resurgence now due to all the Belleza bodies having been updated and set to half their original price.

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Blaise Glendevon]

13 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

I got fed up with my Maitreya Lara body, looking at @Beq Janusnumbers, it is just a resource hog due to the alpha-cuts I guess.

I tried the Slink Physique original, and I love it,  it scores about 5th of the resources on Beq's numbers, but almost all (including Blueberry) have dropped it for some reason.

I will not even consider a body with huge butt and boobs, I need something adult, but not 'curvy', and it needs to score low on Beq's.

I am using the Slink for now, but no new clothes.   What to do?

Wear the Maitreya.

[Persephone Emerald]

Maitreya is ok if you don't wear all the different applier layers it comes with. For myself, I'd either wear the Underclothing or the BOM layer, but not multiple layers.

[Anna Nova]

17 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Maitreya is ok if you don't wear all the different applier layers it comes with. For myself, I'd either wear the Underclothing or the BOM layer, but not multiple layers.

Actually no.  I don't ever wear the optional applier layers and yet @Beq Janusthingy (Improve Graphics Speed - Avatar complexity) on Firestorm shows Lara ~5 times worse than Physique Redux.  Typically I am seeing the Redux body using 160 microseconds, and the Lara using 4000 microseconds.  Looking at this with an outfit and a 500 microsecond Lelutka head yields a total 1400 microseconds for Redux and over 5000 for Lara.

Ya, I'll be looking at the head next.

I found the replies here mostly very helpful.  I'll try @Nalates Urriahsuggestions, but maybe also get a demo of Freya as I have loads of clothes rigged for that too.  I'm afraid I tried the Cinnamon and Chai demos - it's far far far too curvy for me, and I couldn't get it anywhere near the shape I wanted, and I have never seen any clothes for it at all.

 

[Karl Herber]

Some options - 

Belleza Freya - will go fairly slim with the sliders, well supported for clothing, now mod so you can rip out parts & onion layers that you don't want. There's a free optimiser on the MP somewhere that will do this.  Otherwise it's about on a par with Maitreya for complexity. Just a much nicer body IMO. Caution though - some clothing makers are starting to drop support for Freya and I think in a couple of years or so, it'll be in the same position that Slink is in now. 

Lucybody - not the free midnight mania one, but one of the others they have in store. Priced at around L$1250 or thereabouts, no alpha cuts, BOM only, fits maitreya clothing and slink shoes, very low complexity. Limited funcionality compared to mainstream bodies. 

Kalhene Analexa - Low complexity, fits Maitreya clothing (though not terribly well as its too slim for some).  VERY skinny - slimmer than maitreya.

Rule out Legacy on complexity.

Any other body is either going to be massively too much curvy for you, or else it has hardly any clothing, in which case you may as well stick with Slink.

Long-term (thinking 3+ years) I think Maitreya, or a body that fits Maitreya clothing, will be the only feasible options.

[Lyric Demina]

Physique is still my favourite body of all of them; I know your pain in looking for new releases for Physique.  There are older releases aplenty as has been stated and so many great shoes that are also pretty new.  I've got nothing new to add other than moral support -- yay Slink ❤️

[Blaise Glendevon]

The boobs are still huge and pendulous on Freya, no matter how far you push the sliders. 

[Anna Nova]

4 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

The boobs are still huge and pendulous on Freya, no matter how far you push the sliders. 

I quite liked Isis (which comes in the demo package), but even that has huge boobs.

[Beq Janus]

I feel your pain @Anna Nova. I wear Slink HG redux with petite boobs. I'd love to have a better supported body (or I'd love to see support return for Slink,

All is not lost depending on certain design limitations. I have found that tops rigged for maitreya perky can work well with slink petite on occasion. It is easier too when the creator provides an alpha layer for you to save having to make your own. 

In this photo I am wearing a steampunk outfit from Silvery K. The top is made for Maitreya with small chests, The Skirt is the Legacy rigged one, which coupled with the alpha layer that Silvery K's designer  @gin Fhang kindly provides allows me to buy and adapt the clothing.;

This is limiting in design terms I get away with it because it is covering so much of me but my point is that it is worth trying these things out. 

 

I would also keep an eye on things over the next 6 months. The forthcoming performance viewer update will improve all of our rendering. and while I will undoubtedly contine to be bitter and twisted about unnecessary, badly optimised bodies they will (I hope) be a lot less damaging than they are right now. 

[Anna Nova]

On 4/30/2022 at 12:30 AM, Karl Herber said:

....

Long-term (thinking 3+ years) I think Maitreya, or a body that fits Maitreya clothing, will be the only feasible options.

I am tempted to say 'to hell with being a good citizen, no one else is!' and stick with Maitreya, while lobbying them for an alpha-cut-free version in the next release.  Something like the script that is made to strip them from the Belleza bodies.  I can't think it would be very hard to do, and then they would have the high moral ground with the best support.  Or I could say 'armpits to the lot of you', and just do more RL and save my money.

[Gabriele Graves]

2 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

Something like the script that is made to strip them from the Belleza bodies.  I can't think it would be very hard to do, and then they would have the high moral ground with the best support.

Unfortunately this wouldn't really help as the alpha cuts *are* the body.

Alpha cut bodies, which includes Belleza,  are cut up into many mesh objects.  Each mesh object contributes eight faces to the body you see and each mesh face can be individually set to be alpha or visible.  If they are stripped out, you don't have a body.  The script on the Belleza body doesn't strip out alpha cuts.  It strips off the extra applier layers and one or two other things.  You cannot do this with Maitreya as the body is no-mod and you cannot add your own scripts.  However, the Maitreya already has optional applier layers that don't have to be worn so you don't need a script to strip those off.  There are only a few other things that a script could possibly strip out on a Maitreya body these are relatively minor overall imo.

I personally think that alpha cuts are an acceptable trade-off of functionality vs efficiency, especially so as the draw call performance improvements will be coming soon.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Gabriele Graves
Corrections.

[Persephone Emerald]

The Belleza Optimizer Script only strips off the applier layers. Maitreya effectively gave us this option already by having the layers be separate pieces that we don't have to wear.  Maitreya has more alpha cuts (more pieces) to it's body than Belleza has on theirs. There is probably some difference in scripts and vertices too. I know Freya has a slightly lower ARC than  Isis does, which seems odd given that it's a curvier body. Hey, maybe those Maitreya shoulders contribute to the vertices too?   😄

The Belleza Optimizer Script does not strip off the mesh nipples though, and when I tried to do that manually I messed up the body. I guess it changed the number of the body parts and messed up the different foot positions (which are actually multiple feet, with only one visible at a time.)  - If you have a body which lets you take off the feet when you wear boots, that will save some rendering cost too.  - Anyway, I was able to make the mesh nipples invisible by retexturing them with the default transparent texture, but I was not able to remove them.

[Gabriele Graves]

Thanks for the correction.  I thought I had read that it did the nipples part as well.  I have corrected my post so as not to mislead.

[Beq Janus]

16 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

stick with Maitreya, while lobbying them for an alpha-cut-free version in the next release. 

Lobbying is a good solution. I'd undoubtedly move to Maitreya if an efficient Lara-compatible body were available. 

As @Gabriele Graves says, there may be improvements just around the corner to ease out consciences though it should be noted that these (so far) show similar improvements across the board so an uncut body remains more efficient, but all the numbers get smaller. With that in mind it defers the problem for later, which may be "good enough".

Personally, I'd like to think that these creators that have made so much money out of SL might have some inclination to give back in the form of helping performance. I  am ever optimistic. 

A lot of people misunderstand the alpha cut workflow. I've seen many claims that that "oh but the weights all change, it won't work", this is frankly nonsense. For one thing just look at Slink. There is an example, where we have both cut and uncut sharing the same clothing. It is possible. Yes, there is work involved for sure, but an uncut/low cut body is shares the same per vertex weighting. My belief (which has not foundation in actual knowledge so take this with a large pinch of salt) is that it is more complicated making alpha cut bodies because you have to take time fiddling with the edge vertex weighting to avoid gaps and glitches at altitude. 

When I started to track body performance there was no work on the performance viewer, in part focus on this area was invigorated by the numbers I showed, that illustrated the scale of the problem, and ensured that soem of the excellent work that the lab have done here was targeted at the problem space. With that in mind, if the performance viewer can and does minimise the issue, that particular battle has been won, I'll be happy, who knows even I may even overcome my aversion to the inefficiency 🙂 

The irony is that in fixing one problem we will likely move the bottleneck elsewhere, it remains to be seen who will fair best and worst in that. In the end though, less is always more wfor performance. The more redundant vertices we can remove from meshes the less overdraw happens on the graphics cards, this will be the new battleground.

Whether it is CPU lagging drawcall or GPU heating overdraw, inefficiency reduces performance, limits the size of crowds, pushes up the minimum spec that is viable in SL etc. I'd love to see these bodies get the option to wear a weight compatible uncut version just because it's the right thing to do and the need for alpha cuts has mostly past. 

 

[Gabriele Graves]

2 hours ago, Beq Janus said:

the need for alpha cuts has mostly past. 

 

I think this is wishful thinking that will never eventuate unless it is somehow forced upon people.  Even then, the need would be there for many in my opinion, it would just not be possible for those people to fulfill that need any longer.  As an avid clothing shopper who wears many different styles of clothing and a Maitreya user, I know I could not do without the inworld control alpha cuts provides for many, many items of clothing.  People with simpler needs who can get away with alpha masks only seem very determined to disregard as irrelevant the more complex needs of people like me.

I would love there to be an inworld alternative to alpha cuts that allows users to define their own alpha areas that is as quick and as easy as clicking on a few areas of a HUD but doesn't require a body to be chopped up into pieces but there isn't one yet and the current alpha masks by themselves aren't it for people like me.

What I believe might move us forward with alpha masks is if there was an editor built into the viewer that allowed someone (the body vendor for example but really anyone) to create a template of user defined individually alphable areas for their body and a new editor UI that showed a 3D view of the body mesh to the user in a similar way that the shape editor does but allows rotation.  This editor UI would use the supplied template to implement those user defined alpha areas on that body and allow the user to toggle the alpha/non-alpha by clicking those areas.  When the user was done, they would press a "Make Alpha Mask" button and get a new alpha mask asset in their inventory that represented their choices.  Maitreya, for example, could supply a template to all body users which matched their current cuts.

This would be an almost 100% equivalent to what we have today in alpha cuts but with no real sacrifice in ease-of-use.  It would mean the bodies would not have to be cut up anymore and it would eliminate the scripting aspect too.
The only caveat would be for clothing that is asymmetrical on the arms.  Alpha cuts currently are superior here because it simply isn't possible to achieve that with alpha masks alone due to there being only one arm in the SLUV map.  That's why I said almost 100%.  A optional scripted alpha cut capable mesh layer that goes over the arms only could be made by each vendor and used for those cases.

If such a thing were to be done, I know I would be happy to give up my alpha cut body but something like this is what it would take, not what we have.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Gabriele Graves
corrections

[Scylla Rhiadra]

55 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

What I believe might move us forward with alpha masks is if there was an editor built into the viewer that allowed someone (the body vendor for example but really anyone) to create a template of user defined individually alphable areas for their body and a new editor UI that showed a 3D view of the body mesh to the user in a similar way that the shape editor does but allows rotation.  This editor UI would use the supplied template to implement those user defined alpha areas on that body and allow the user to toggle the alpha/non-alpha by clicking those areas.  When the user was done, they would press a "Make Alpha Mask" button and get a new alpha mask asset in their inventory that represented their choices.  Maitreya, for example, could supply a template to all body users which matched their current cuts.

Yeah, this.

I love my Slink Physique: it's by far my favourite body for a number of reasons.

But, honestly . . . using it is hard work. Unless a garment is supplied with an alpha layer, making it work without alpha cuts either means creating one's own, which is annoyingly time consuming (and also involves a L$10 uploading fee), or a trial and error application of the alphas that Slink has made available. It's exhausting. The sliders for adjusting alphas are a wonderful idea, but they only help sometimes.

I wish Slink had produced and shipped with their bodies a much more precise and broad range of alphas than they did. Even with the supplements they've added, I still often end up ransacking old outfits for alphas that will do the trick for new garments. The REAL answer, of course, is for clothing creators to start packing alpha layers with their clothing again, which some are now doing for Kupra at least. But I think Maitreya undercut that when they retained their own alpha slices.

BTW, Gabriele, nice to see you back. You've been missed.

[Ceka Cianci]

I'm not sure how much the impact this body has, but from what I remember, it was lower than the other bodies.. The Lucy body fits a lot of the Maitreya things..

It's been free through a midnight mania for a good while now.. You can convert it to bom with a script they have there also which I thing might be close to 200 lindens..

If anything you could test it out..

 

I did a post a good while back and probably couldn't find it now but i'll try, where I tried to compare the top bodies and how much they weighed at that time..

The lightest bodies I found out of all the ones I tested are the Kahlene bodies.. Both Erika and I want to say the other is Anaya.. I'll have to log in to see the correct spelling on that one.. But the Anaya bodies is supposed to fit Maitreya as well, from what I've heard.. That's their thinner body which has both male and female gender parts..

You may already have those, but if not just thought I would suggest them.. I haven't really read the whole thread yet..

 

ETA: I found that post where I compared bodies.. I didn't do Slink,But did quiet a few.. The Kalhene bodies came in way under any of the ones that I did weigh.

This was back in 2021, probably before the bodies going Mod, but I can't remember.. hehehe

I just know after doing this test, I never touched my Legacy bodies again.. hehehe

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Anna Nova]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

...

I just know after doing this test, I never touched my Legacy bodies again.. hehehe

I don't touch Legacy because it's made by the same people that did the TMP debacle, and I hold grudges forever (also their store gives me Migraines).  Same reason I am on Linux, I remember the Microsoft antitrust thingy, and netscape.

In the same vein, I am very sympathetic to Maitreya, as I have only ever had good experiences with them - heck, I paid them years ago for a body and they are still updating it, massively, for free!  Slink is the same.

Nice to see the experts (IMO), @Beq Janusand @Gabriele Gravesgetting involved.  It is illuminating to understand the various issues in this topic.

[Ceka Cianci]

3 minutes ago, Anna Nova said:

I don't touch Legacy because it's made by the same people that did the TMP debacle, and I hold grudges forever (also their store gives me Migraines).  Same reason I am on Linux, I remember the Microsoft antitrust thingy, and netscape.

In the same vein, I am very sympathetic to Maitreya, as I have only ever had good experiences with them - heck, I paid them years ago for a body and they are still updating it, massively, for free!  Slink is the same.

Nice to see the experts (IMO), @Beq Janusand @Gabriele Gravesgetting involved.  It is illuminating to understand the various issues in this topic.

I had that old TMP body myself and voiced pretty hard how I felt about the company.. I had gotten the newer one  after hearing or hearing wrong, that they were either under new management or were sold.. I forget really.. hehehe

Either way, I never really wore it that much.. No matter what body I try, I always end up back on my Maitreya it seems, which I ended up buying after leaving my TMP..

Beleeza was somewhere in there.. I think just before my Maitreya now that it's coming back to me..

I have Slink and haven't really dove into it as much, mainly I think because I was wanting to get away from attaching body, then hands, then feet.. I really never gave it a good honest try..  Maybe I will in the future.. Time just keeps getting shorter  to be able to afford the time it takes to switch around as much as I used to be able to..

[Ajay McDowwll]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:13 AM, Anna Nova said:

What would really be good would be a Maitreya release with an optional no-cuts version, but I am not holding my breath.

This is what I want most.  I own the Slink Physique Redux as well, but due to lack of clothing support I mostly stick with my Maitreya.