Luna Bliss Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: We get into the glass houses and stones when racist and bigoted rhetoric starts getting tossed about. Maybe just me but seems counterproductive to getting respect for a desired pronoun when one trashes all white heterosexuals as if they are the only one not doing so. That assuming thing is the cause of many problems. By noting that heterosexuals and white people have had the upper hand (and still do), using their influence to trample on the rights of LGBTQ+ non-white individuals does not equal to the belief that marginalized groups do no harm whatsoever. What is being pointed out is that those in power always do much MORE harm to those with less power in society. Edited April 13, 2022 by Luna Bliss 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo Alpha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Maitimo said: Here's a hypothetical situation. Is it now too difficult or too offensive to you to use an English name for him now that you've seen that he is obviously Chinese? What if he's actually of Korean decent ? Or Thai ? Or Japanese ? Perhaps neither ? Perhaps he's Dutch like me except has origins from the West-Indies ? I can 'see' his physical traits are that what we consider Asian only. I conclude no further and will ask if I am not sure TO HIM DIRECTLY. More importantly : I do not need YOU to tell ME how to adress HIM. Edited April 13, 2022 by Solo Alpha 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Solo Alpha said: What if he's actually of Korean decent ? Or Thai ? Or Japanese ? Perhaps neither ? Perhaps he's Dutch like me except has origins from the West-Indies ? I can 'see' his physical traits are that what we consider Asian only. I conclude no further and will ask if I am not sure TO HIM DIRECTLY. What if he's Ukrainian or they're in a war zone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo Alpha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Just now, Luna Bliss said: What if he's Ukrainian or they're in a war zone? You think you are funny, but you are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Solo Alpha said: What if he's actually of Korean decent ? Or Thai ? Or Japanese ? Perhaps neither ? Perhaps he's Dutch like me except has origins from the West-Indies ? I can 'see' his physical traits are that what we consider Asian only. I conclude no further and will ask if I am not sure TO HIM DIRECTLY. What if he's Ukrainian or they're in a war zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitimo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Solo Alpha said: What if he's actually of Korean decent ? Or Thai ? Or Japanese ? Perhaps neither ? Perhaps he's Dutch like me except has origins from the West-Indies ? I can 'see' his physical traits are that what we consider Asian only. I conclude no further and will ask if I am not sure TO HIM DIRECTLY. He has already told you directly that his legal name is Song Lin Xhao and that he wants you to call him John instead. He hasn't told you his exact nationality, does it matter? If it matters, why does it matter? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 41 minutes ago, Solo Alpha said: That is not how the thread started off. The OP informed for DIRECT consequence when harassed. How so? If you read the first page of this thread, the OP asked what LL would do, and the first few posters generally said for the OP to use the internal tools. After that, we heard nothing from the OP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo Alpha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Maitimo said: If it matters, why does it matter? I'm not saying it matters. I say I won' t overconclude for him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo Alpha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Just now, Theresa Tennyson said: How so? Because the OP would have asked for our opinions on said matter instead of informing oneself about immediate arbitrary actions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 19 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said: WHat happens when someone literally looks "male or female" - in other words, not one of the two? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: By noting that heterosexuals and white people have had the upper hand (and still do), using their influence to trample on the rights of LGBTQ+ non-white individuals does not equal to the belief that marginalized groups do no harm whatsoever. What is being pointed out is that those in power always do much MORE harm to those with less power in society. I don't see this in the framework of a power dynamic but simply as an evolving cultural one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitimo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Solo Alpha said: More importantly : I do not need YOU to tell ME how to adress HIM. I'm not telling you how to address him. I'm trying to discover how you would choose to address him, and what would lead you to make that decision. What I am mainly curious about is if the same people find it equally difficult or offensive when the trait involved is race instead of gender. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Solo Alpha said: I'm not saying it matters. I say I won' t overconclude for him. 3 minutes ago, Solo Alpha said: Because the OP would have asked for our opinions on said matter instead of informing oneself about immediate arbitrary actions. Aren't you overconcluding about the OP's intentions? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Because we're here? This isn't a spectator sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Poor PP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Maitimo said: I have some questions for those people in the thread who refuse to use the correct pronouns and/or names for trans and non-binary people for the reason that it's "too difficult" or "imposing their will on me". For myself and I suspect some of the other posters it is not a matter of refusing to use the desired pronouns but a case of whether they must use correct pronouns. One on one I have no issue with using the desired pronoun one would like on the very rare occasion where I would use a pronoun rather then their name directly. In Canada as an example it now a legal requirement to use it and that does not sit well for some. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo Alpha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Maitimo said: What I am mainly curious about is if the same people find it equally difficult or offensive when the trait involved is race instead of gender. Let me tell you how people are persuaded the good way. I always thought 'Salaam Aleykum' offensive. Why ? Because I presumed, incorrectly, that it only meant 'Peace in the name of Allah". I got into a discussion at work with a muslim about this greeting amongst them and why 'we Westerners' were not adapting to it. "But it's a misconception' he said. "It merely means 'Peace.' And he made the piece sign of a hippy and smiled. I answered in disbelief and told him I'd check facts on that. He was of course right. And he was never offended of my misconception. And had me convinced of his good nature. I have no issues no more in greeting and being greeted by my fellow muslim countrymen this way. No law was needed to enforce this understanding. He died in a car crash years later. As an atheist I say now : May the God I do not hold for existent have mercy on this great soul. That' s how understanding works. Edited April 13, 2022 by Solo Alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: By noting that heterosexuals and white people have had the upper hand (and still do), using their influence to trample on the rights of LGBTQ+ non-white individuals does not equal to the belief that marginalized groups do no harm whatsoever. What is being pointed out is that those in power always do much MORE harm to those with less power in society. Expand I don't see this in the framework of a power dynamic but simply as an evolving cultural one. Couldn't it be both? Or what distinctions are you making? The thing is...most of the time there will be no evolution without some pressure against those in power to give up their goodies. They want to keep them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Reminds me of some of the male telemarketers that kept calling me sir after correcting them several times and they tried to claim it was "just habit to say sir" even when they KNOW the other person is FEMALE. All it does is make me hang up on them. They blow the sale every time doing that. And they are doing it deliberately. The tone of voice and inflections give them away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Solo Alpha said: Let me tell you how people are persuaded the good way. I always thought 'Salaam Aleykum' offensive. Why ? Because I presumed, incorrectly, that it only meant 'Peace in the name of Allah". I got into a discussion at work with a muslim about this greeting amongst them and why 'we Westerners' were not adapting to it. "But it's a misconception' he said. "It merely means 'Peace.' And he made the piece sign of a hippy and smiled. I answered in disbelief and told him I'd check facts on that. He was of course right. And he was never offended of my misconception. And had me convinced of his good nature. I have no issues no more in greeting and being greeted by my fellow muslim countrymen this way. No law was needed to enforce this understand. He died in a car crash years later. As an atheist I say now : May the God I do not hold for existent have mercy on this great soul. That' s how understanding works. What would your reaction have been if he was as offended by it as you were (wrongly) offended by the expression itself? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Solo Alpha said: I answered in disbelief and told him I'd check facts on that. He was of course right. And he was never offended of my misconception. And had me convinced of his good nature. I'd be offended that you did not believe me and needed to "check facts on that". At least keep that part to yourself! Why not just..believe people? Take them at face value? Sure, the point of your story was "happy ending". Even though your friend died. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo Alpha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said: What would your reaction have been if he was as offended by it as you were (wrongly) offended by the expression itself? I would remain justified by my disbelief. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: In Canada as an example it now a legal requirement to use it and that does not sit well for some. Citation please. ETA: Actually, let me save you time:https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/canadas-gender-identity-rights-bill-c-16-explained Edited April 13, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitimo Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: For myself and I suspect some of the other posters it is not a matter of refusing to use the desired pronouns but a case of whether they must use correct pronouns. One on one I have no issue with using the desired pronoun one would like on the very rare occasion where I would use a pronoun rather then their name directly. In Canada as an example it now a legal requirement to use it and that does not sit well for some. Are you saying that this is really a protest against the law itself? Civil disobedience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo Alpha Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: Sure, the point of your story was "happy ending". No, the point is misconception can be dissolved peacefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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