SL 2022 ROADMAP

[ChinRey]

4 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

Imagine if the PBRs no more PBR to spc conversions, one less hassle in the workflow, though admittedly might be too late (looking at greener, more modern pastures)

Don't hold your hopes up too high. Physical Based Rendering only means exactly what the phrase says; there is no standard for it and we have no idea how LL will interpret it.

I have a feeling Unity's metallic map system is what is on top of your mind but that's a Unity speciality and not in any way standard for PBR. LL may well argue that their current system with RGB specular maps cover the metallicness well enough and leave it at that - or they may come up with a completely different solution. Really, the only two things missing before SL's ALM can be called PBR are Fresnel reflection and microsurface scattering. (Fresnel reflection is going to be interesting btw, considering all the heavy edge shading that is common in SL.)

Besides, even if LL decides to emulate Unity's take on PBR, you still can't expect content to be directly transferable between the two platforms with good results. Second Life has a very limited dynamic (color) range, three completely different sets of shaders (all of them completely different from Unity's), a single dominant light source that is usually located right above the scene and rather crude and outdated ambient lighting. All of these are factors you have to take into account if you want your brilliant works of art to really shine in a Second Life environment.

Edited May 29, 2022 by ChinRey

[Keiko Kiyori]

When is premium plus going to come out? May is almost over.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Keiko Kiyori said:

When is premium plus going to come out? May is almost over.

I would expect an announcement as part of SL19B

[Sammy Huntsman]

I mean with them hiring people to do meshing and texturing. Specifically for Avatars, skins and makeups. I hope they have a new SL mesh body. Kinda like the mesh bodies today. 

[Myntz Mysterious]

My expectations of the Roadmap:

• Avatar “expressiveness” that brings camera-based gestures and movement to your avatar for a whole new level of interaction and connectedness  -  Okay, but now people will see the horrific faces I make as I read public chat. 😜
• Premium Plus - a new upgrade option with added features and extras - Xmas 2023
• A new mobile viewer to enhance and improve your Second Life experience -  Didn't this go the way of the web viewer??
• Improved group chat reliability - April Fools! 😁
• New user avatar customization and improvements - Dont want to get my hopes up on what this really means
• Search engine improvements  - 😑

Mostly I jest, but not getting my hopes up on most things. Don't get me wrong I love Second Life and wish to see if improve before technology passes me by and I'm to old to figure it out. 😁

[Persephone Emerald]

3 hours ago, Myntz Mysterious said:

My expectations of the Roadmap:

• Avatar “expressiveness” that brings camera-based gestures and movement to your avatar for a whole new level of interaction and connectedness  -  Okay, but now people will see the horrific faces I make as I read public chat. 😜
• Premium Plus - a new upgrade option with added features and extras - Xmas 2023
• A new mobile viewer to enhance and improve your Second Life experience -  Didn't this go the way of the web viewer??
• Improved group chat reliability - April Fools! 😁
• New user avatar customization and improvements - Dont want to get my hopes up on what this really means
• Search engine improvements  - 😑

Does anyone in SL beside Philip Rosedale really want camera-based expressions?

[Gabriele Graves]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Does anyone in SL beside Philip Rosedale really want camera-based expressions?

Nope, not here.  They're just adding gimmicky a feature hoping to appeal to a wider audience and make SL seem "modern"  That or somewhere at LL the reality distortion effect is really out of control.

[Coffee Pancake]

8 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Does anyone in SL beside Philip Rosedale really want camera-based expressions?

I think it's an attempt to do something, anything, to stop VRChat eating all the expressive options in the room combined with a "return to the source, lets all reread snowcrash" approach to innovation. We're just a sea of Brandys and Clints, the crudest virtual class.

Gonna take a lot more than facial expressions to fix this lunch, but it will be something those who don't actually participate in SL can pat themselves on the back over .. while they gleefully attempting to retread old ground and get serious business back .. for all the good that will do. Have your meetings in SL! Your avatars can pull faces now!

VRChat have the recipe right, it's an entertainment platform first and foremost, if people do serious stuff there, good for them. Back to making the entertainment better.

I swear LL are forever doomed to constantly chase a crowd of people who don't actually want to use SL, but are too polite to say no.

[Sid Nagy]

As long as LL doesn't start to charge even more fees for the 19 years old junk, I'm a happy camper when it comes to SL.
And if something usable turns up on the path to 2023, I consider that as an unexpected but welcomed bonus.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

As long as LL doesn't start to charge even more fees for the 19 years old junk, I'm a happy camper when it comes to SL.
And if something usable turns up on the path to 2023, I consider that as an unexpected but welcomed bonus.

Tilia is a separate company so, can create whatever fees are desired and it won't be LL's fault.  Right?

[Sid Nagy]

My walking boots are from a different company too.  😃
And I will most likely use them if there is a fee increase any time soon.

[Codex Alpha]

On 5/29/2022 at 2:13 PM, ChinRey said:

Don't hold your hopes up too high. Physical Based Rendering only means exactly what the phrase says; there is no standard for it and we have no idea how LL will interpret it.

I have a feeling Unity's metallic map system is what is on top of your mind but that's a Unity speciality and not in any way standard for PBR. LL may well argue that their current system with RGB specular maps cover the metallicness well enough and leave it at that - or they may come up with a completely different solution. Really, the only two things missing before SL's ALM can be called PBR are Fresnel reflection and microsurface scattering. (Fresnel reflection is going to be interesting btw, considering all the heavy edge shading that is common in SL.)

Besides, even if LL decides to emulate Unity's take on PBR, you still can't expect content to be directly transferable between the two platforms with good results. Second Life has a very limited dynamic (color) range, three completely different sets of shaders (all of them completely different from Unity's), a single dominant light source that is usually located right above the scene and rather crude and outdated ambient lighting. All of these are factors you have to take into account if you want your brilliant works of art to really shine in a Second Life environment.

I got spoiled with PBR in Sansar - it's such an intuitive workflow, and can be transfered to Unity (though Unity seems more geared by default still to SPC/GLS too) - only started investigating Unreal recently has it's own but also easy PBR.

For SL, I think I've got a good handle on my workflow to go PBR -> SPC/GLS conversion - but on the newer products I made are more complaints as amazingly I ran into the issue of many people still not using ALM. My view usually originates in wanting the standardization of things for ease of creating and workflow. With newer tech like Sansar the platform may not be the greatest yet to build on, but it is far easier to upload and manage everything out of the gate.

My goal was to create my projects in PBR as I have in the last 3 years, which I enjoy, then develop a workflow to accommodate SL usage - the other engines are minimal tweaks. It's only SL that takes a bit more work now - from textures to LODs, etc. I was spoiled! haha

I look forward to you checking out my work once I open a store, check out how I'm doing on materials and such, would value your feedback greatly. Have a nice day, always appreciate your posts through the years...

[diamond Marchant]

43 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Tilia is a separate company so, can create whatever fees are desired and it won't be LL's fault.  Right?

As far as I can tell, Linden Research is a privately owned company composed of multiple business units. They all report to the Executive Chairman, Mr. Oberwager. Linden Lab is the DBA that creates and maintains Second Life. Tilia appears to be the core/future business of Linden Research... this speculation is based on the org chart, the positions open at Linden Research, the owners history running B2B service companies (e.g. Asure Software), and the observation that Second Life is not growing the user base, but is possibly breaking even if expenses are controlled. Also the elimination of Linden Lab data centers and the reliance on contractors makes it easier to "pull the plug".

If numerous metaverse/virtual worlds actually show up, Tilia wants to handle the money. That is the FUTURE.

The purpose of Second Life is provide is to provide Tilia with a success story  (e.g. we handled 650 milliion last year). Linden Lab needs to keep the boat afloat long enough for this to happen... but money is tight.

I speculate that Premium Plus is "delayed" because someone ran the numbers and discovered that the plan, as leaked/stated, could result in lowering revenue. For example, those wanting a 2048 sqm tier would pay less on an annual basis, compared to the original Premium with a 1024 tier add on.

Personally, I am greatly enjoying my time here and will ride it to the end. Kudos to the Lindens and Moles who keep the lights on.

 

 

[MrHGee]

Less gimmicks...more raw performance please. Otherwise it's "Second Life...live your alternative life with your friends at 3 frames per second!"

If the performance isn't there, what's the point?

[Ardy Lay]

1 hour ago, MrHGee said:

Less gimmicks...more raw performance please. Otherwise it's "Second Life...live your alternative life with your friends at 3 frames per second!"

If the performance isn't there, what's the point?

Please state what hardware you want Second Life Viewer to perform well on.  Or, maybe start a new thread with that as the topic to keep from dragging this one far off-topic.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Ardy Lay

[Sid Nagy]

6 hours ago, MrHGee said:

Less gimmicks...more raw performance please. Otherwise it's "Second Life...live your alternative life with your friends at 3 frames per second!"

If the performance isn't there, what's the point?

It can be your hardware, it can be your internet connection, it can be your viewer settings.
But SL has way more than 3 frames per second on my computer, when I'm not trying to visit an extremely crowded sim.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

It can be your hardware, it can be your internet connection, it can be your viewer settings.

For a minute there, it was "a few of my favorite things"! 

Like the song, dontcha know.

[MrHGee]

On 6/2/2022 at 10:31 PM, Sid Nagy said:

It can be your hardware, it can be your internet connection, it can be your viewer settings.
But SL has way more than 3 frames per second on my computer, when I'm not trying to visit an extremely crowded sim.

Oh I get 20+ in an empty sim but anywhere other people exist...plummets.

This is on latest 12th Gen Intel kit or even my 2016 8 core 16 thread HEDT platform with a AMD 6700XT 12GB GPU. NVMe storage throughout. I can be in a busy SIM with 5FPS and SL will be using 5% of CPU and 20% of the GPU. Wether a sim is empty or busy, SL just doesn't know what to do.

60-70Mbps internet with really low ping running on enterprise grade network gear. I can hook up any laptop or PC and get the same lousy performance and using different viewers/settings.

It just ain't optimised yet the builder folks want to add more sparkly stuff to slap on screen. Yayyyy! Great direction if you want it to all grind to a halt one day.

 

But enjoy your bigger and more complex textures...😄

Edited June 5, 2022 by MrHGee

[Jackson Redstar]

"

• Avatar “expressiveness” that brings camera-based gestures and movement to your avatar for a whole new level of interaction and connectedness"
  
  Can someone explain more in detail what that means?
  
  Main improvement I'd like to see is decent framerates on a sim with 20 or 30 or more avis on it. Seems the performance viewer from LL is on the right track with that, but yeah, the latest  hardware and still down at 4fps on a crowded sim, no bueno 

[Gabriele Graves]

It means that they will scan your face with a camera and animate your avatar face so that it has similar movements and expressions.

[Coffee Pancake]

46 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

It means that they will scan your face with a camera and animate your avatar face so that it has similar movements and expressions.

But will it .. will it really .. or will it just tell the viewers to play some stock SMILE animation

[Gabriele Graves]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

But will it .. will it really .. or will it just tell the viewers to play some stock SMILE animation

Considering it mentions gestures, yeah it probably will be just that.

[Love Zhaoying]

I'd hope for "resting biotch face", etc.!

[Jackson Redstar]

22 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

It means that they will scan your face with a camera and animate your avatar face so that it has similar movements and expressions.

But who's  camera?  are we all going to become smile bots? How does anyone's camera know what mood I am experiencing to "animate" me?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Jackson Redstar said:

But who's  camera?  are we all going to become smile bots? How does anyone's camera know what mood I am experiencing to "animate" me?

I assume it's going to work similar to Facerig (now called Animaze). Not sure if it's going to be this advanced, though. Avatars with webcam-controlled expressions are quite popular on Twitch these days - so who knows.

Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding what they mean (which is possible!).

Anyhoo, this is how that looks: