Here’s How to FIX Firestorm’s UGLY and make it look more like the beautiful default Second Life Viewer.

[davidventer]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

About that .. 

https://get.catznip.com/downloads/beta

R13 will include MacOS

This is great! I'll give it a try. Thanks for sharing.

[Coffee Pancake]

11 minutes ago, davidventer said:

This is great! I'll give it a try. Thanks for sharing.

Please do poke me with how it works out inc details of your hardware, even the smallest stupidest bug or issue, we have very limited Mac stuff to test on and nothing representative of current hardware.

[davidventer]

57 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I assumed you used Black Dragon?  😀

Runs on Windows only. I’m on macOS. 

[davidventer]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Honestly, who pays that much attention to ANY log in screen ANYWHERE?  As long as I can easily input the info and get to where I need to be, that's all that matters.

I do, the default viewer's login screen is great, useful and visually pleasing. It shows some cool new places to explore. 
 

And even when I don’t explore those places, it’s still a much better experience to get greeted by upon launch than the ugly mess that is the Firestorm login screen. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by davidventer

[Nick0678]

1 hour ago, davidventer said:

1 hour ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

Oh cool, so you will be making a new Firestorm skin?

I'd have to look into that, but the great ..

It's an easy process, go ahead and pick one of the TPV clients if you are not in the mood to build your own and theme it the way you want it to  look like.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

2 hours ago, davidventer said:

 

1. Obviously you do. Otherwise, why even respond here?

2. I am aware of that, but there are rules. I'm not the one name-calling.

3. It was meant as keywords for people who are triggered by Firestorm's UI, not to illicit personal attacks from anonymous forum trolls, but I'm well aware that this is the internet and that there are people who somehow feel better about themselves when they attack others from behind an anonymous avatar. 

3.1. Again, keywords. Along with a helpful guide. Apologies if my language was unsavory but did I personally attack anyone? No. And even if I did not explain my personal disgust at the Firestorm UI, some people would've probably still felt the need to attack me from the comfort of their anonymous online personas, such is life on the internet, so I may as well use the necessary keywords that'll make it easy for those who dislike Firestorm's UI to find this post.

4. Refer to your own point 2, above.

 

2. aside from insulting the Firestorm teams work for over 15 years. 

3. Then add keywords to your original post.. 

3.1 Again, you could have added them before posting. And that was an insulting guide that no one asked for. If you had posted that in response to someone asking "How do i make the Firestorm log in screen look like the SL viewer?" Then i could see it. 

And if you thought being called an SL viewer fangirl was a terrible horrible attack, you haven't seen 99.9999% of the posts in this forum. 

[NiranV Dean]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I assumed you used Black Dragon?  😀

I don't use my own Viewer. I just develop. Everyone knows developers don't use their own toys!

[Rowan Amore]

49 minutes ago, davidventer said:

Runs on Windows only. I’m on macOS. 

I wasn't responding to you.  

[Kathlen Onyx]

Who in the world uses the word "triggered" when speaking of a log in page of a viewer?  Like you have an emotional or physical reaction to looking at it? 

What will they come up with next? Things that make you go hmmm......

[davidventer]

44 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

aside from insulting the Firestorm teams work for over 15 years.

When, in the last X? years, have the Firestorm team done any work on fixing or improving the UI? It's been the same, ugly, terrible mess since launch. That said, I'm well aware of the hard work they've put into other aspects of the viewer; like the awesome feature set, and keeping important things on par with Linden Lab's code. That's all good and much appreciated but the fact still remains; the Firestorm Viewer is absolutely, nausiatingly UGLY - We're all just barely tolerating it, or ignoring it's ugliness at best, and someone needs to come out and say it. I'll take the heat and be that someone. The simple fact remains that the Firestorm UI is utter trash, yet it has THE BEST feature set (thank you, Firestorm Team). It's possible to make it look a little less trashy and I've provided a way. You're welcome. 

It's also possible to absolutely dislike one aspect of someone's work while still appreciating the over-all product. It's not all black and white; it's not only this or only that. I'm not refusing to use or recommend the Firestorm Viewer because I think it looks like garbage. I still use it; I still recommend it. This post is me showing Firestorm-haters that it's possible to make it look less ugly, so they can fix some of the ugly, and actually use it, and experience the awesome feature set. I'm still grateful for its existence and to the people who put hard work into it. It's just not a pleasant thing to look at, and it's possible to change it, that's all I'm saying. 

If my calling the Firestorm viewer ugly, is an insult to the team's work, well, it's not meant as an insult, just a brutally honest and blunt observation. IT'S UGLY - FACT! Take it as constructive criticism or user feedback. 

[davidventer]

22 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Who in the world uses the word "triggered" when speaking of a log in page of a viewer?  Like you have an emotional or physical reaction to looking at it? 

What will they come up with next? Things that make you go hmmm......

Who, you ask? Well, I'd assume anyone with a keen eye for detail, an appreciation and understanding of quality design and user experience, and who needs to look at that ugly login screen every time before entering the virtual world. My guess is; many people. But thanks to the hard work put in by the Firestorm team and the great feature set they’ve provided for us, we ignore or tolerate the ugly but we don’t have to. It can be improved as per my OP. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by davidventer

[Drake1 Nightfire]

23 minutes ago, davidventer said:

When, in the last X? years, have the Firestorm team done any work on fixing or improving the UI? It's been the same, ugly, terrible mess since launch. That said, I'm well aware of the hard work they've put into other aspects of the viewer; like the awesome feature set, and keeping important things on par with Linden Lab's code. That's all good and much appreciated but the fact still remains; the Firestorm Viewer is absolutely, nausiatingly UGLY - We're all just barely tolerating it, or ignoring it's ugliness at best, and someone needs to come out and say it. I'll take the heat and be that someone. The simple fact remains that the Firestorm UI is utter trash, yet it has THE BEST feature set (thank you, Firestorm Team). It's possible to make it look a little less trashy and I've provided a way. You're welcome. 

According to you. There are thousands of users that like it.  I like it, i'm not "Barely tolerating it." Good lord, you really have nothing better to do than slam and insult  the Firestorm team over and over about one single part of their viewer that 99.9999% of people see for less than 10 seconds? 

I didnt ask for any help with the log in page so you wont get a thanks from me. 

26 minutes ago, davidventer said:

It's also possible to absolutely dislike one aspect of someone's work while still appreciating the over-all product. It's not all black and white; it's not only this or only that. I'm not refusing to use or recommend the Firestorm Viewer because I think it looks like garbage. I still use it; I still recommend it. This post is me showing Firestorm-haters that it's possible to make it look less ugly, so they can fix some of the ugly, and actually use it, and experience the awesome feature set. I'm still grateful for its existence and to the people who put hard work into it. It's just not a pleasant thing to look at, and it's possible to change it, that's all I'm saying. 

No one asked you to spout off your horribly negative opinions about the FS viewer. Doing so is very very rude. 

Firestorm haters? Seriously? 

28 minutes ago, davidventer said:

If my calling the Firestorm viewer ugly, is an insult to the team's work, well, it's not meant as an insult, just a brutally honest and blunt observation. IT'S UGLY - FACT! Take it as constructive criticism or user feedback. 

Ugly, horrible, vomit inducing, gross, disgusting eyesore, sickness-inducing hideousness, orange puke fire gradients, nauseating, hideous, triggering, awful. 

I would say those words applied to something i made would be very insulting. 

If you truly meant it as user feedback you would post that in the FS group chat or on THEIR website. Not on the LL website. 

27 minutes ago, davidventer said:

 It can be improved as per my OP. 

No, it can be altered. If you like the SL ui, use the SL viewer. DO you really spend that much time on the login page for this to be an issue?

[Kathlen Onyx]

33 minutes ago, davidventer said:

Who, you ask? Well, I'd assume anyone with a keen eye for detail, an appreciation and understanding of quality design and user experience, and who needs to look at that ugly login screen every time before entering the virtual world. My guess is; many people. But thanks to the hard work put in by the Firestorm team and the great feature set they’ve provided for us, we ignore or tolerate the ugly but we don’t have to. It can be improved as per my OP. 

No, normally the word triggered is used in the context of a previous painful experience that "triggers" an emotional or physical response.  If you are "triggered" by the FS log-in screen then perhaps you need to spend a bit more time outdoors.

[davidventer]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Please do poke me with how it works out inc details of your hardware, even the smallest stupidest bug or issue, we have very limited Mac stuff to test on and nothing representative of current hardware.

I'm trying the Catznip macOS beta. It's quite a pleasant experience and it runs really well, like extremely well, in fact - Much better performance than any other viewer that I've tried (higher FPS, smoother UI interactions, etc). I do find myself missing some Firestorm features though. Or maybe I just haven't discovered everything yet (mostly the Favorites button/folder, more features in the quick preferences window, and more privacy features, like being able to disable edit beams, some chat interface settings - I like my chat window content to look exactly like that of the default viewer, or at least some extra spacing between the lines, and to not have the individual chat chicklets at the top right - it would be nice to have 'none' or 'hidden' as an option for those) so I may probably end up sticking with the hideous Firestorm Viewer in the long run, albeit with the few visual changes I've made as per my OP to make it more tolerable. 

I'll definitely keep testing Catznip for a while though as I'm really enjoying it so far and it provides a MUCH better user experience than Firestorm. I will switch to it as my main viewer of choice if those other features of convenience get integrated. Thanks for informing me of this beta! I'll keep playing around with it from time to time and I'll reach out to you if I experience any bugs or issues. Looking forward to the official release! 

[Rowan Amore]

57 minutes ago, davidventer said:

IT'S UGLY - FACT!

Actually, it's merely YOUR opinion.  But whatever.

[davidventer]

27 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

If you truly meant it as user feedback you would post that in the FS group chat or on THEIR website. Not on the LL website. 

I have. Even Jessica has. Firestorm's own project lead doesn't even like the messy UI. She actually posted screenshots many many years ago indicating, with red arrows and lines where all the UI imperfections and ugly, triggering annoyances are. Go dig through the Firestorm Jira for Jessica's old posts, you'll find it. But guess what, people who try Firestorm by word-of-mouth referral, finding it ugly, then going back to using the default viewer instead aren't going to go look in the Firestorm group chat or Firestorm Jira for how to make it look less ugly. They'll just give up and go back to default or learn to tolerate the UGLY in favor of the extra features. My OP shows such people that they can make Firestorm less ugly through a few simple steps. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by davidventer

[Theresa Tennyson]

5 hours ago, davidventer said:

At least I'm not the one firing off personal attacks and prejudiced labels at a stranger.

 

6 hours ago, davidventer said:

Do you absolutely love the Firestorm Viewer’s feature set, like me, but you’re totally nauseated by the general grossness of the Firestorm Viewer’s disgusting and ancient-looking User Interface?

 

Firestorm's user interface was made by someone who I assume is a stranger to you. Therefore...

[davidventer]

10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Actually, it's merely YOUR opinion.  But whatever.

Fair enough. But valid nonetheless as I know for a fact that I’m not the only one with such opinion. And again, if it’s not an issue for you, why are you even responding to my post? I’ve worded it in a way specifically to attract those who have given up on Firestorm because of its unpleasant visual user experience. Like the person who responded earlier in the thread; they’ll see this, make the simple changes, and enjoy Firestorm a lot more. You’re welcome. 

[Rowan Amore]

4 hours ago, davidventer said:

Again, if it doesn't bother you, ignore this, move on. Thank you.

[davidventer]

22 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Firestorm's user interface was made by someone who I assume is a stranger to you. Therefore...

Your point being? ...

Do you think I would not have said these things if I knew them? Also, I'm not calling THEM ugly, am I? No, I'm critiquing work and I'm always brutally honest, even with close friends. If something is causing an unpleasant user experience, I'll tell you, in my own way, no matter who you are. Did I not also point out the awesome feature set? Can you not see that this post is my way of showing those who are anti-Firestorm due to its ugly UI, that Firestorm can still be enjoyed; made more tolerable; that there is a way to improve it, and use it. The UI is also but one small aspect. I'm not insulting Firestorm nor the Firestorm Team. If the team takes offense to my criticism of but one aspect of the viewer, perhaps they shouldn't be in the business of designing public-facing user interfaces in the first place. I'm not going to sugar-coat my feedback. It is what it is. It's UGLY. I'd be more than happy to get to know the person(s) who designed it and say it to their face, and advice on how to make it less UGLY but even Firestorm's own project lead have tried that, to no avail, so... I posted this guide with the few simple steps to make it less ugly - a solution to an issue that annoy some people.

Edited November 26, 2021 by davidventer

[davidventer]

28 minutes ago, davidventer said:

I have. Even Jessica has. Firestorm's own project lead doesn't even like the messy UI.

For reference: https://jira.firestormviewer.org/browse/FIRE-8533

[Jessica Lyon]

5 hours ago, davidventer said:

As someone who works in UI Design, and Graphic Design, and as someone who spends a lot of time In Second Life, my view into the virtual world matters. Any graphic designer would be triggered by the Firestorm Viewer's Login Screen and UI.

We look forward to your contribution, and thank you for your constructive feedback!
 

Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
Of the viewer with the disgusting and ancient-looking User Interface.

[Willow Wilder]

6 hours ago, davidventer said:

Do you absolutely love the Firestorm Viewer’s feature set, like me, but you’re totally nauseated by the general grossness of the Firestorm Viewer’s disgusting and ancient-looking User Interface? Do you, like me, LOVE the clean and modern look of the default Second Life Viewer but you still prefer using the Firestorm viewer for its awesome feature set?

I find both login screens equally "noisy" and I don't care for clutter on my screen which both have plenty of. For Firestorm's skin, I use the CtrlAltStudio color scheme as the dark gray with hints of purple is helpful for my vision. I also much prefer the Firestorm "mode" over the V6 "mode" of UI. 

 

[davidventer]

1 minute ago, Jessica Lyon said:

We look forward to your contribution, and thank you for your constructive feedback!
 

Jessica Lyon
Project Manager
Of the viewer with the disgusting and ancient-looking User Interface.

I would love to contribute. Sign me up as Quality Control, but you, as project lead, have even pointed out the messy UI. My original post above provides a more tolerable solution to that. That's my contribution for now. I'd be happy to contribute more, let me know if/how/when/where I can. 

Let's turn the disgusting and ancient-looking User Interface into something beautiful, shall we? Or was that sarcasm, I can't tell. 

Thank you for your hard work though! (And that's serious, not sarcasm)

[Jessica Lyon]

Just now, davidventer said:

I would love to contribute. Sign me up as Quality Control, but you, as project lead, have even pointed out the messy UI. My original post above provides a more tolerable solution to that. That's my contribution for now. I'd be happy to contribute more, let me know if/how/when/where I can.

Not sarcasm at all. The viewer is open source and we always welcome contributions from the community. Especially given how much work we actually do with very few developers these days. In that Jira I created, I did point out issues and things I disliked. But pointing out things we dislike, offering suggestions on how they could be improved is a million times easier than actually making the changes, and more so maintaining those changes.

We don't really need advice or critique, although I do welcome it. What we need is people to help do the actual work, and then maintain that work for the next 5-10 years through dozens if not hundreds of code merges with LL code.

My point being, it's easy to pick apart what we don't like about something. It's a whole different world to try and fix it.