Official pissed off with Windows 11 and moving to Linux help thread.

[Anna Nova]

The name says it all.  Ask away.

[Nick0678]

Why Anna?

[Mr Amore]

Gabe is the best thing to happen to Linux, since Linus himself.

 

The 2020s will be good for Valve, and Linux too courtesy of the Arch-based SteamOS. The Steam Deck, the VR headset codenamed Deckard and the rumored Steam Console(this time built by Valve). All running on SteamOS.

Linux gamers make up around 5% of the marketshare now, once millions of these units are in the wild, it'll boost that figure to the point Linux gaming will need to be taken seriously. Epic and Battleeye have already acknowledged this by releasing their anticheat software for Linux.

A real win would be a Linux release of the Epic client and GOG(which has supposedly been under development for a decade).

Valve really pushed Linux gaming forwards during the 2010s until it seemed they had abandoned SteamOS, but it's back with a vengeance and the 2020s will bring Linux gaming closer to parity with Windows.

[Coffee Pancake]

Oh no ... it's the year of gaming on linux again.

 

[Ted McGregor]

 

[Lindal Kidd]

"Infinite are the arguments of (software) mages."

-Gandalf the Geek

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

Run level V, innit!  (Stravros the Geek)

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, TDD123 said:

 

Oh come on .. lets not pretend Stallman was a victim of cancel culture or saying dumb things. He has some fiercely abhorrent views especially when it comes to what constitutes consent.

[Ted McGregor]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

Oh come on .. lets not pretend Stallman was a victim of cancel culture or saying dumb things. He has some fiercely abhorrent views especially when it comes to what constitutes consent.

I have translated in 2006 the Wikipediapage on Stallman into Dutch. I acknowledge him as the founder of the term GNU / Linux as the operating system I am using, because I like operating systems in general. Me knowing about Stallman is a technicality.  Nothing more.

I also translated a Wikipediapage about Steve Job's NeXT computer. 

You have grudges on a professional level. It' s a world apart from mine.

( Besides .. there's enough revulsion within the 'community' itself about Stallman' return )

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by TDD123

[Nick0678]

10 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

have translated in 2006 the Wikipediapage on Stallman into Dutch. I acknowledge him as the founder of the term GNU / Linux as the operating system I am using, ....

I just learned about him and to be honest.. i will probably forget him within the next 15 - 20 minutes...   Never cared about such stuff.

(unless of course he sends me 1.000.000 USD.)

[Anna Nova]

14 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Why Anna?

It's a bit like climbing mountains, Nick.  I keep reading all these moaning about Windows 11 threads, and I just can't help it...

[Mr Amore]

15 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Oh no ... it's the year of gaming on linux again.

The *decade* of Linux gaming is here.

I no longer game, so it's not going to change much for me. And I haven't had much success with Proton in the past, so I'm skeptical about their 100% compatibility claims.

But Valve's devices will bring Linux a step closer to mass market appeal.

[Innula Zenovka]

First question:   how well do the Official Viewer, Firestorm, Marine's RLV viewer and Catznip work in Linux (including stuff like sound and shared media)?    I often need all four to test scripts.

[Teagan Tobias]

24 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

First question:   how well do the Official Viewer, Firestorm, Marine's RLV viewer and Catznip work in Linux (including stuff like sound and shared media)?    I often need all four to test scripts.

 

I have been running Linux Mint Cinnamon for a couple years now and have never used any viewer but Kokua. I don’t script or build, but I do listen to music, live shows, and have no problems with that, just saying.

And, I’ve tried the Linden viewer but it just does not run, I’m not a geek so its most likely something I’m doing wrong but I can’t get it to work at all, no errors, nothing.

 

[Liv Simondsen]

28 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

First question:   how well do the Official Viewer, Firestorm, Marine's RLV viewer and Catznip work in Linux (including stuff like sound and shared media)?    I often need all four to test scripts.

For me everything works fine on Linux Mint .. problem is voice. I get a horrible echo and bad noises on Ubuntu - Debian based distro, i never got voice to work on Fedora and Manjaro.

Sometimes some viewers like the Official (very old on Linux) and Catznip doesn't even start on some distros, at least for me.

That's why i stay on Windows (11) for now.

I know the problem is not Linux but my hardware, i don't know how well voice works for others. This is my experience.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Liv Simondsen

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

First question:   how well do the Official Viewer, Firestorm, Marine's RLV viewer and Catznip work in Linux (including stuff like sound and shared media)?    I often need all four to test scripts.

Firestorm offers a native linux build and runs well, but the other three would have to be run using Wine. I have managed that with Catznip and the LL viewer successfully (*), but bear in mind wine is best with 32-bit programs. I can't help with RLV, it's not smeething I need or use.

CoolVlViewer and Singularity offer Linux native builds which also run well.

* Animats posted something a while back on how to get the LL viewer to run under wine, you need to add a disk serial number in the wine config otherwise the connection attempt fails.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Nick0678]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

First question:   how well do the Official Viewer, Firestorm, Marine's RLV viewer and Catznip work in Linux (including stuff like sound and shared media)?    I often need all four to test scripts.

Firestorm works the same , the Linden one has not been updated so forget it.

 

40 minutes ago, Liv Simondsen said:

For me everything works fine on Linux Mint .. problem is voice. I get a horrible echo and bad noises on Ubuntu - Debian based distro, i never got voice to work on Fedora and Manjaro.

Sometimes some viewers like the Official (very old on Linux) and Catznip doesn't even start on some distros, at least for me.

That's why i stay on Windows (11) for now.

I know the problem is not Linux but my hardware, i don't know how well voice works for others. This is my experience.

Voice works fine for me , i also use Pulseeffects so that everyone is amplified and clean regardless of the VirtualEar position.

[Ted McGregor]

@Innula Zenovka : Watch out for roaming crazed anti-linux Catznip-devs : apparantly rms stole their lunchmoney in highschool or something and they seem quite unforgiving ..

@Nick0678 : Where to get this viewer you are using ? What is it ?

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by TDD123

[Innula Zenovka]

4 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

@Innula Zenovka : Watch out for roaming crazed anti-linux Catznip-devs : apparantly rms stole their lunchmoney in highschool or something and they seem quite unforgiving ..

@Nick0678 : Where to get this viewer you are using ? What is it ?

 

I used OpenSUSE years ago for a while, and liked it, but eventually it was too much hassle keeping track of what was compatible and what wasn't, and what worked well and what didn't, that I gave up.   

If Linux can't now be used to run either the Official viewer or Catznip, it's not going to be much use to me, I think, though obviously my SL isn't much like most people's. 

[Ted McGregor]

5 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

If Linux can't now be used to run either the Official viewer or Catznip, it's not going to be much use to me

I can only confirm Firestorm and Kokua are still fully working native clients, albeit support is waning and several functions seem outdated or depricated ( Voice, Havok ).

Let alone that LL dropped active open source support completely and only offers binaries for either Windows or Mac. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by TDD123

[Nick0678]

11 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

@Nick0678 : Where to get this viewer you are using ? What is it ?

You won't find it somewhere. It's a private version i made for me.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, TDD123 said:

@Innula Zenovka : Watch out for roaming crazed anti-linux Catznip-devs : apparantly rms stole their lunchmoney in highschool or something and they seem quite unforgiving ..

Really ... I've made it clear I'm not running Linux for hardware reasons, up till Windows 10 I ran Linux exclusively since the early 2000s. To say the experience with my nvidia card & chrome is subpar is an understatement. I need to be able to do work on my computer, not waste time working on my computer.

RMS is an entirely different issue.

1 hour ago, TDD123 said:

Let alone that LL dropped active open source support completely and only offers binaries for either Windows or Mac. 

LL did not drop open source support, they just dropped Linux support. Oz did clearly state (many times, over the course of several years) that if the community could make the SL viewer compile standalone (and use system libs rather than needing to be shipped with specific precompiled dependencies) they would add it to their build servers and make / ship standard packages for the main distros. (so Linux users could add a repo and 'apt get secondlife' etc).

No one from the open source community stepped up to make this happen.

All viewers are built on top of the same open source code released by LL (where do you imagine up to date support for service changes, bug fixes and features comes from?!)

I'm on record asking LL to reaffirm their commitment to open source viewer development, which they have, repeatedly.

 

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

I think it's a mistake targeting particular people just because they have strongly-held views on some topics. Software engineering does tend to produce people with robustly voiced opinions but don't forget, they also write the programs we know and love.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

up till Windows 10 I ran Linux exclusively since the early 2000s. To say the experience with my nvidia card & chrome is subpar is an understatement. I need to be able to do work on my computer, not waste time working on my computer.

I too have had issues with Nvidia cards and an OS, in this case it was Windows 10 that forced me onto Linux, but I've also very recently had issues with a different Nvidia card and Lubuntu 20.04 that has now forced me back to Windows.

The trouble is, for every couple of people like you and I who experience problems, there are thousands others who don't. At the end of the day, we each have experienced real problems but to each other, we can only offer anecdotal information.

[Solar Legion]

Use what you're comfortable with or prefer to use. Don't pretend for even a second that whatever issue you had that made you swap, still exists as it may or may not still be an issue.

I've not looked back since starting to use Linux (originally on a shared computer) since the days post EoL of XP. I've not had any issues nor have I had to "tinker" really (not for day to day use - had to set up a few SymLinks for getting Winamp era playlists I'd exported to a more universal format to point to the correct places when loaded into Audacious).

Do I use an "out-of-the-box" distribution setup? Not entirely - no. I replaced the stock Kernel with a more performative one on a friend's recommendation. Does it "misbehave" on occasion? For upgrading said Kernel, I have to pop open the Terminal and use Pacaur because the stock/GUI Pamac/Pacman is griping about it (for no discernible reason).

I do not use the nVidia site released drivers nor do I use the set that normally ships with my Distro (Manjaro) - opting to use the set that ships with/is used by Arch (since Manjaro is based on it).

I've not had to use the "tricks" one would have to use on Ubuntu (and derivatives) to use Firestorm (symlinking specific libraries to their modern counterparts in such a way as to trick it into thinking the modern ones are the older ones).

I'm not a software dev, I haven't properly kept up with programming languages since the late 90's early 00's. If something stymies me, I look it up - just as I did with Windows.

I don't use or keep Chrome on this machine. I do have Chromium and Chromium derived browsers on here as well as Firefox (a holdover from my Windows days, when I had to hop from Browser to Browser to get some pages to work properly): Brave, Opera, Vivaldi and Firefox. Chromium is only there because of ALVR.

Linux biggest strength is also its biggest weakness: Many, many Distros, Desktop Environments and Kernel variations.

By and large, things "just work" for me. Sure, there's a fair few Steam linked games that required some patience or settings alterations but frankly that is still a thing for some games on Windows as well. Are there some games I can't play that I'd like to? Sure - most of those use some variation of Anti Cheat software that often runs as a background Daemon, requiring a level of access they really shouldn't have anyway (but will be worked around as Proton develops further).

No OS is perfect. No OS "just works" all of the time.

As for Second Life?

Linden Lab chose to use several proprietary packages, programs and add-ons - the makers of some of them having turned their noses up (more or less) at supporting anything outside of Windows (and when pushed, Mac). TPVs running Native on Linux have to use an older version is the Vivox plug in because the Vivox Devs themselves stopped bothering. We're told by some dev teams to use a WINE based work around if we want to use the more up to date Voice (or for some Distros, to make it "just work").

Pinning the majority of this on the users and developers making all of this work is disingenuous at best. Over the last decade or so, Vavle stepped up to the plate. Others are (slowly) following.

TL;DR - Do not assume that your bad experiences (however long ago they happened or however recent they are) are the Norm. Things change.