NextUP and other Gacha Replacements are still Gacha

[Zia Underwood]

Can someone at LL please tell me why these Gacha substitutes are being allowed?  You guys did the right thing by banning them from SL now you're undermining your pro consumer deed by allowing content creators to exploit loopholes in your policy.  Bellatech's Nextup and creations like it are still Gacha they even say this in their promotional material.  As if flaunting the fact that they found a end run around LL TOS.  A customer is still playing for a blind pick even if they can see the next up item.  It just means that the item they are playing for is the one that is going to be revealed with the purchase not the one they are receiving.  It triggers the same dopamine responses for those neurodivergent people who are susceptible to these sorts of games.  People who fall prey to gambling.  Which is what Gacha is.  And unlike other games where they try to shrug off the gambling because there is no cash value to the items. In SL there is a cash value associated with the items being won as they can be resold.  With the possibility of minors playing SL even allowing these things is to allow the chance at minors being allowed to gamble.

Linden Labs did the right thing by banning the unregulated gacha gambling market.  Please put a stop to content creators who are looking to exploit the loopholes you left in the policy now.

[Finite]

8 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Can someone at LL please tell me why these Gacha substitutes are being allowed?  You guys did the right thing by banning them from SL now you're undermining your pro consumer deed by allowing content creators to exploit loopholes in your policy.  Bellatech's Nextup and creations like it are still Gacha they even say this in their promotional material.  As if flaunting the fact that they found a end run around LL TOS.  A customer is still playing for a blind pick even if they can see the next up item.  It just means that the item they are playing for is the one that is going to be revealed with the purchase not the one they are receiving.  It triggers the same dopamine responses for those neurodivergent people who are susceptible to these sorts of games.  People who fall prey to gambling.  Which is what Gacha is.  And unlike other games where they try to shrug off the gambling because there is no cash value to the items. In SL there is a cash value associated with the items being won as they can be resold.  With the possibility of minors playing SL even allowing these things is to allow the chance at minors being allowed to gamble.

Linden Labs did the right thing by banning the unregulated gacha gambling market.  Please put a stop to content creators who are looking to exploit the loopholes you left in the policy now.

If you can see what you are buying then it is in zero violation of the ToS. I really don't understand why people can't just be happy with what has already been done instead of reaching for anything and everything even slightly similar to a gacha.

If you want to talk about gambling go play some no devil and let me know how you feel about "skill gaming" and "loopholes"...

[Alwin Alcott]

19 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Can someone at LL please tell me why these Gacha substitutes are being allowed? 

because they approved a in between form ..  don''t worry about things they don't. We'r not paid to be policemen for LL.

[Blaise Glendevon]

All you have to do is not buy them.

[Zia Underwood]

You can see what you're buying but players are not playing for the thing they are buying.  They are playing for the next thing to be revealed in most instances.   Also I've been seeing bots on these gacha sims running around collecting the unclaimed rares.  It's a racket.  An anti consumer predatory racket.  It isn't right when EA does it it isn't right when SL content creators do it.

Why am I not happy?  Because it's exploitative, predatory and anti consumer.  If an artist wants to charge 3500L for a top than by all rights do so.  If they feel that's the cost for their work.  But don't disguise that cost behind an unregulated slot machine.  It's not like any of us know what the ratios on these things are going to be and lets be real LL isn't going to go around and make sure every content creator is being fair and above board. 

 

Quote

The Next Up Vending System -by BellaTECH

We are so excited to announce The Next Up Vending system! This new system will replace the previous gacha systems used in Second Life. Essentially it will be gacha BUT shoppers will know what the current item available is before purchasing it. There will however be no indication of future items beyond that, so shoppers will still be excited to play multiple times to try get the items they are after. This simple solution is explained in further detail below.

 

[Blaise Glendevon]

Then don't shop there.

[Rowan Amore]

33 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Can someone at LL please tell me why these Gacha substitutes are being allowed?  You guys did the right thing by banning them from SL now you're undermining your pro consumer deed by allowing content creators to exploit loopholes in your policy.  Bellatech's Nextup and creations like it are still Gacha they even say this in their promotional material.  As if flaunting the fact that they found a end run around LL TOS.  A customer is still playing for a blind pick even if they can see the next up item.  It just means that the item they are playing for is the one that is going to be revealed with the purchase not the one they are receiving.  It triggers the same dopamine responses for those neurodivergent people who are susceptible to these sorts of games.  People who fall prey to gambling.  Which is what Gacha is.  And unlike other games where they try to shrug off the gambling because there is no cash value to the items. In SL there is a cash value associated with the items being won as they can be resold.  With the possibility of minors playing SL even allowing these things is to allow the chance at minors being allowed to gamble.

Linden Labs did the right thing by banning the unregulated gacha gambling market.  Please put a stop to content creators who are looking to exploit the loopholes you left in the policy now.

So don't buy from it?  If you can see exactly what you are.purchasing, It's NOT a gacha.

Perhaps read the blog post covering this specifically about the type of machine now being used.

Q:  Could a “conveyor belt” system work?  

Example:  The vendor board selects an item at random and displays it for purchase.  That item remains on display and available for purchase until a buyer touches the vendor which locks it to them for purchase.  This allowed the buyer to purchase the item and deliver it.  The vendor unlocks and then selects another item at random and displays it for purchase and the cycle repeats.

Example image here and credit to Nadi Vemo for the approved vendor design.

[Zia Underwood]

https://www.ign.com/articles/heres-how-loot-box-addiction-destroys-lives

[Luna Bliss]

44 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

It triggers the same dopamine responses for those neurodivergent people who are susceptible to these sorts of games.  People who fall prey to gambling.  Which is what Gacha is.

Do you know of people with the types of conditions under the 'neurodivergent' label in SL suffering dire consequences from these sorts of games?

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

https://www.ign.com/articles/heres-how-loot-box-addiction-destroys-lives

Been there, done that.

 

[Solar Legion]

Oh for ....

It is currently following the ToS/CS and Linden Lab declarations. Deal with it.

[Zia Underwood]

The just don't buy them.  Argument only works for people who aren't susceptible to these manipulative tricks.  Not everyone is neuro divergent and prone to this sort of addiction.  The  micro payment is designed to entice someone in with a low payment and the possibility of a big reward.  Once your in the game people who  have a problem breaking out of the loop will sit there and keep  spending.  These games are specifically designed to trap these types of people in the loop and keep them spending.  They're called whales.  And the whole industry is marketed upon this.

[Zia Underwood]

No.

 

Quote

Oh for ....

It is currently following the ToS/CS and Linden Lab declarations. Deal with it.

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Zia Underwood

[Zia Underwood]

If you came here thinking you'd change my mind or you had some clever argument I haven't heard before.  You're unfortunately wrong and you can sod off.  I'm not here to argue with you or try to convince anyone who thinks "Just don't buy them." is a suitable argument.  And I'm definitely not here to argue with people who are profiting off of gacha.  I'm here to communicate my displeasure with Linden Labs for doing a good thing than undermining it by allowing a loop hole like this to be exploited.

[Finite]

10 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

The just don't buy them.  Argument only works for people who aren't susceptible to these manipulative tricks.  Not everyone is neuro divergent and prone to this sort of addiction.  The  micro payment is designed to entice someone in with a low payment and the possibility of a big reward.  Once your in the game people who  have a problem breaking out of the loop will sit there and keep  spending.  These games are specifically designed to trap these types of people in the loop and keep them spending.  They're called whales.  And the whole industry is marketed upon this.

People with gambling addictions aren't coming to SL spending their life savings. They're doing that at casinos and local lotteries or other online gambling methods. They might scratch an itch in SL. Nothing more.

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Zia Underwood said:

Linden Labs for doing a good thing than undermining it by allowing a loop hole like this to be exploited.

They didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They were forced to. Perhaps that might give you peace knowing that if they weren't forced to change it they wouldn't have. Your arguments will be falling on deaf ears.  

[Coffee Pancake]

Saying "Don't play" is disingenuous and arguing in bad faith.

If that worked at all for people with a susceptibility for gambling mechanics none of this would ever have been a problem.

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

If you came here thinking you'd change my mind

If you came here, thinking you could change anyone's mind...

[Nick0678]

[Zia Underwood]

10 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

They didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They were forced to. Perhaps that might give you peace knowing that if they weren't forced to change it they wouldn't have. Your arguments will be falling on deaf ears.  

Yes, I know.  But one can hope they might see that future laws could broaden the definition and push them to make a more broad definition of gacha.  So these loop holes are no longer exploited.

[Zia Underwood]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

If you came here, thinking you could change anyone's mind...

I don't even know who you are.   I don't see Linden at the end of your name so my guess is you aren't in charge of policy.  So to reiterate the rest of my cherry picked post. This wasn't for you.

[Finite]

6 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Yes, I know.  But one can hope they might see that future laws could broaden the definition and push them to make a more broad definition of gacha.  So these loop holes are no longer exploited.

There's no law currently. So we are to worry about a possible future law being broadened even further into the future before the initial law has even been legislated and passed? I am going to start driving 55mph in a 75mph zone since because they might one day lower the speed limit. Just in case.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Finite

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Yes, I know.  But one can hope they might see that future laws could broaden the definition and push them to make a more broad definition of gacha.  So these loop holes are no longer exploited.

Hope all you want but it's not going to happen. If they are complying with the law that's really all they care about. If you really want to make a difference go after the people that sell breedables. That's a whole other addiction and far worse in my opinion than Gachas.  In fact ALL of SL is an addiction. Might as well shut it all down.

[Solar Legion]

This is a Forum. If you wanted to direct your "message" to Linden Lab staff, you have other avenues.

Use them or put up with getting responses from other users.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Zia Underwood said:

Can someone at LL please tell me

Quote

I don't even know who you are.   I don't see Linden at the end of your name so my guess is you aren't in charge of policy.  So to reiterate the rest of my cherry picked post. This wasn't for you.

LL seldom discusses things here in the forums.  Try JIRA, or a Support ticket, or one of the inworld meetings.

 

 

1 hour ago, Zia Underwood said:

A customer is still playing for a blind pick even if they can see the next up item.  It just means that the item they are playing for is the one that is going to be revealed with the purchase not the one they are receiving. 

How do you know exactly why any specific customer is paying the machine?

 

 

1 hour ago, Zia Underwood said:

It triggers the same dopamine responses for those neurodivergent people who are susceptible to these sorts of games.  People who fall prey to gambling.

LL did not ban Gachas because they cared about triggering someone's gambling addiction.  They banned Gachas because they didn't want to end up in court over them.  Their lawyers have apparently told them that if the person sees exactly what they are paying for, then it is not Gacha.

Edited October 2, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell