Bellisseria Railroads

[KecskeShajt Corvinus]

I didn't find any image of the railroads of Bellisseria, so I made one.The red lines are the railroads, the yellows squares are the stations, and the two community areas next to the stations. Rez zones are marked with a yellow "R". I put some of those that I found near the stations. The nortwest sections can't be used from the switch in Gully Wash, since both guides are active on the switch (that zone is still under construction).

[arabellajones]

I can't recommend using the lines west of Hawkesblood. The only rez zone I have found after that is at Bridle Path, and there are track glitches. You can run a locomotive from there, and eventually reach Hawkesblood, but the journey from there to Bridle Path fails before you reach Gully Wash.

Officially, SSPE regions are not yet completed and there are no guarantees that anything in them will work. What I have seen of the Chalet line, which does run through some named regions, suggests that the Bellissseria Rail completion is distinct from the Linden Home completion/access.

While there are some good new SLRR-compatible models, too much depends on the scripting of the VRC generation, which struggles with the land permissions of the Bellisseria Rail. I have done some scripting for the locomotives I have built, but getting around the land permissions problem is way above my pay grade. Mesh, used carefully, can greatly reduce the LI, but you have to pay close attention to LOD models.

[Eowyn Southmoor]

odd, ive been back and forth on those rail lines dozens of times with 3 different trains 

 Never had an issue except at Hawkesblood station itself where I've had to edit my train past a part of the track so it doesn't get flipped around.

I've also used the stretch of rail line north-west of Gully Wash - the one that crosses the big river/lake and ends up at SSPE1217. I just had to manually edit my train onto the other track.

I'm only using single trains though, no carriages. This is what I've been using:

Infinity Quarry Train

Michie DB101

Rail Moped

[animats]

Yes, there are still some bad spots.

The SLRR needs a track geometry car, something with which you travel over the track and get reports of the bad spots on the track.

Track geometry car. Real world version.

SL could use something like this - a vehicle with scripting to detect and log misaligned guide rails, gaps, switches that don't operate properly, and the other little problems that cause trains to get stuck or derail.

There's an SLRR standard for track, so we know what the proper dimensions are.

 

[Matthieu Quander]

5 hours ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

odd, ive been back and forth on those rail lines dozens of times with 3 different trains 

 Never had an issue except at Hawkesblood station itself where I've had to edit my train past a part of the track so it doesn't get flipped around.

I've also used the stretch of rail line north-west of Gully Wash - the one that crosses the big river/lake and ends up at SSPE1217. I just had to manually edit my train onto the other track.

I'm only using single trains though, no carriages. This is what I've been using:

Infinity Quarry Train

Michie DB101

Rail Moped

Thanks for posting your vehicles.  That Moped is awesome.  I'm going to have to get one of those.  Enclosed vehicles make me feel claustrophobic, so I prefer ones that allow me to be out in the open.  My current rail explorer is a handcar.  

Rail Handcar SLRR

[Daniel Voyager]

On 8/6/2021 at 11:11 PM, KecskeShajt Ichibara said:

I didn't find any image of the railroads of Bellisseria, so I made one.The red lines are the railroads, the yellows squares are the stations, and the two community areas next to the stations. Rez zones are marked with a yellow "R". I put some of those that I found near the stations. The nortwest sections can't be used from the switch in Gully Wash, since both guides are active on the switch (that zone is still under construction).

There is a new railway from the west side through the central parts of the Chalet sub continent which ends in the far north. I think more railway line is in the works in the near future. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Daniel Voyager

[arabellajones]

The Chalet line runs right to region edges at each end, the sort of unfinished edge that you see if a neighbouring region were down, similar to most of the edges of the Chalet sub-continent, and that stretch on the north edge of the Log homes sub-continent (which has a similar rail ending on it). Doesn't really mean they'll ever build anything, but, unlike the south and east edges of the Log homes sub-continent, it's unfinished.

The Big River through the Chalet and Stilt sub-continents does look a possible feature for that northern edge. Any rail link would need a compatible Linden Home theme north of the Stilt homes. (Americans only seem to do long over-water bridges for highways, though there was a rail link to Key West.)

[arabellajones]

I made a couple of long runs over the weekend, with an experienced rail builder. There were a lot of things we agreed on about the Bellisseria rail nretwork (I am thinking of referring to is as "BR" but that might be confusing) and I learned that a few things in the SLRR/VRC specs are essentially myths.

There are stations and passing loops modelled which have no rez zone. We did experience a couple of total-failure sim crossings, where the vehicle was returned, and the nearest rez zone was a really long way away. Some of these potential sites do seem to be in crowded regions, but when Randalsham Forest has a rail line through, and a station modelled, and is ALL linden land, you would think they can find the resources to support a rail rez zone.

Signalling, including the automatic-half-barrier road crossings, is erratic. Real equipment is built to be fail-safe, it's a core principle of rail safety.. We're coming up on the two-century anniversary of public railways. Trouble is, if something happens to affect a signal between scripts, such as a train sensor and a road-crossing, they fail and don't recover. There's a lot of upper-quadrant semaphore signals on the lines, models of Victorian mechanical technology, and on the real ones, if the operating cable breaks, gravity pulls the signal arm to Danger. Fail-safe. It's a pretty good attitude for programming too.

One of the myths is this one. (I have seen it repeated for roads too.) Michael Linden was doubtful, it's doesn't seem to have any relation to how the region-crossing works (before or after the cloud), but it lingers on the Wiki and in SLRR rail packs. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Second_Life_Railroad/SLRR_standards#SLRR_track_Region_crossings

And, OK, it's not the real world, but the BR system is full of kinks and bad layout, inviting trouble. You were starting from scratch, and you still managed to have region-crossing going across corners. It doesn't have to be a right-angle crossing of a boundary, but a straight line is more reliable than a curve. No, I don't expect you to follow real-world standards for a curve radius, but the only 50m curve I found a record of on real standard gauge was limited to 5mph, and closed over 50 years ago. This curve is 200m radius.

Oh, and the locomotives were were using were all-mesh, low LI, and low part-count. The old models you can get, the Hobo/VRC freebies, are incredibly primitive and make the region-crossing a lot more work. Old-style: 48 prims and LI=27. Same locomotive and script as a mesh model, with more detail: 13 "prims" and LI=9 (LI isn't a perfect  measure, and your viewer will use "prim" for any discrete component of a link-set, classic prim, sculpt, or mesh-object.)

The Chalet line is better for alignment, and sort of OK for rez zones. It'll be interesting to see how it works when it goes functional.

[Matthieu Quander]

It's obvious, to me at least, that vehicle transportation of any sort was not a primary concern when Bellisseria was envisioned, and the first regions were built and released.  Anyone trying to get from Point A to Point B on the surface roads of those early regions can attest to this, as many roads lead to nowhere.  The fact that one can actually get from Point A to Point Z with good area knowledge or use of the map is a testament to the evolving considerations that the moles have put into place as the project has developed.  

Railroads, sailable waters,  airstrips, roads that connect, rez zones...these are all things that we take for granted now.  I'm not going to judge the BR rail system until it is complete, but even if it never improves over what we have now, I am grateful that it is there, and I enjoy it frequently.

[Cranston Yordstorm]

Anyone have contact with the LDPW to ask why a certain region 

On 8/12/2021 at 6:02 PM, Daniel Voyager said:

There is a new railway from the west side through the central parts of the Chalet sub continent which ends in the far north. I think more railway line is in the works in the near future. 

Has anyone successfully done a multicar run through the log home regions, particularly the region called SSPE1174, near Randalsham Forest?  It only has 23 prims available for travel.  So disappointing being able to do runs successfully from the rail lines on either side of it, but not able to make a continuous multicar trek past this point, which has no houses in it, and is mostly water.

BTW ... Randalsham DOES have a rezz zone down by the water.  If you are clever, you can rezz a rail vehicle, sit on it and move it to the rail for use.

[Cranston Yordstorm]

On 8/12/2021 at 2:15 AM, Eowyn Southmoor said:

odd, ive been back and forth on those rail lines dozens of times with 3 different trains 

 Never had an issue except at Hawkesblood station itself where I've had to edit my train past a part of the track so it doesn't get flipped around.

I've also used the stretch of rail line north-west of Gully Wash - the one that crosses the big river/lake and ends up at SSPE1217. I just had to manually edit my train onto the other track.

I'm only using single trains though, no carriages. This is what I've been using:

Infinity Quarry Train

Michie DB101

Rail Moped

I've actually been using multicar Narrow-Gauge trains from Valkyrie (they're on Marketplace) and they work fantastically.  I just can't get multiple cars past the limited prims available on the region called SSPE1174 (which says it's using 4977 of 5000) has ZERO houses and is mostly water.  You'd think just to foster exploration they would free up a few more prims.  There are a number of other homestead regions in Bellisseria that don't this issue.

[Cranston Yordstorm]

Found THIS little errant prim gem in Euphemia Meadows this morning, which caused my engine to jump over the tracks lol.  (It's the prim directly under the engine, raised above the lower ones for some reason)

[Abnor Mole]

The problem you are having with multicar trains in Bellisseria isn't so much a Land Impact one (but it is related) as it is how multi-car trains work. The scripts move the cars following behind them. In Bellisseria we have to keep a buffer of available LI on the main parcels to allow for the rezzing of houses, so they have Object Entry disabled. This prevents anyone from rezzing high LI objects and moving them onto the main parcel to the point the parcel can become too full to rez someone's house in the region. The consequence of that is objects that use a script to move them will be blocked at the region crossing, and that is how most multicar trains work. Disabling Object Entry has no effect on actual vehicles or objects that are sat upon, but it does mean that cars that are scripted to "follow" a train won't be able to cross region boundaries.

[diamond Marchant]

So have at least one passenger sit in each passenger car... Voila!

[arabellajones]

The problem with Hawkesblood seems to be the naming of the guide prims at either end of the rez zone. It may be related to the signals on either side of the station. They have scripts. I have found I have a copy of the v2 signal script system, and the set-up looks complicated.

[Stella Carver]

I've seen several people comment about trainspotting in other threads. Are there any 'official' trains running or is it just us when we take a notion? 

[Nika Talaj]

There are no trains running on an 'official' schedule, for people to board whenever they pass by, if that is what you mean, Stella.  The reason for that is in Abnor's comment above.

On 8/19/2021 at 8:30 AM, Abnor Mole said:

Disabling Object Entry has no effect on actual vehicles or objects that are sat upon, but it does mean that cars that are scripted to "follow" a train won't be able to cross region boundaries.

There HAS to be at least one avatar on a train, or the lack of object entry will poof it in a few meters.  So, automatic systems like the Pods on mainland or the trains in Caledon are not possible here.  To which I personally say, thank God.

Now, if someone had the time I think it would be fun to be a train conductor who did an "All Aboard!" trip every other day or so at 5PM (for example),  taking a different route every time, sort of like Camden's Boat Parade.  I haven't heard of anyone doing that, tho I have seen the occasional person announcing in Belli Citizens chat that they're going for a train trip, in case anyone wants to come.

What WOULD be possible would be a ferry-on-call run by somebody who lives within 10 meters of a rez zone.  You could put up a sign on your property to rez a ferry in the rez zone when touched.  Riders would have 5 minutes to board, and then the rider(s) could pick a pre-programmed route, sit back and puff on their cheroots while touring about in carefree luxury.  I've considered doing that in Fantasseria, going from my property far in the south all the way up to the rez zone near Glimmer Bay, or to the bay in Barney's Fief.  Running into an avatar could shove the ferry off-route, but otherwise it would be very reliable, ignoring any objects it might encounter.  If the riders got off, the ferry would poof.

If there were more water between Glencannon and Soft Downs, it would be fun to make a ferry providing an overwater shortcut from VictoriBelle to Rigamarole. I assume people would want to pilot their own watercraft to get to Fantasseria from there

[Nika Talaj]

ANYWAY, Squeaky happened to be in Belli chat this morning, and passed on some info about improvements he's been making to Belli's rail network, see below.   Incidentally, the chalet rails now run from the station/rez zone in Lavon, at the very northern tip of the chalets, all the way down to Hydrant, just above the stilts.  It's not finished, as each end stops at a sheer region edge, but it is a LONG route!  Note that as soon as you leave Lavon station you go through an underwater tunnel.

Quote

[07:44:55] Flycan is blown away by the job Squeaky has done on the Chalet railway.  I didn't realize until now that it already goes the entire length of the Chalet subcontinent.
[07:45:26] Alex Zelin: WHOA!
[07:45:30] Alex Zelin: GO SQUEAKY!
[07:45:49] Squeaky Mole blinks
[07:46:13] Flycan: Hi Squeaky!  Amazing job!
[07:46:28] Alex Zelin: Good job Squeaky! *brings Squeaky a coffee and a bag of breakfast tacos* ♥
[07:46:31] Cate Foulsbane: Thank you, Squeaky!
[07:46:33] Flycan: It ends in the south at the edge of Hydrant
[07:46:51] Sergal Mole: taco!!
[07:47:05] Squeaky Mole: I'm just waiting for someone to discover the new system
[07:47:05] Cate Foulsbane: Moles! Yay!
[07:47:55] Alex Zelin: I will go check out the new rail as soon as possible. I'm working at the mo but can't wait to see what you've done, Squeaky!
[07:48:31] Stella (stella.carver): The new system?
[07:48:40] Stella (stella.carver): I'm intrigued
[07:49:04] Squeaky Mole: Watch for yellow lights (not orange) and see if you can figure out what it means
[07:49:25] Stella (stella.carver): well dang. I'm psyched
...
[07:50:06] Nightwish Sveiss: New rail? Where?
[07:50:16] Alex Zelin: YELLOW LIGHT MEANS GO VERY FAST! O.O
[07:50:25] Silas Moore (mooresinlaw): Yellow means live electric rail...."SHOCKING"
...
[07:51:43] Squeaky Mole: Good guesses but, no. It has to do something with rail blocks (real life)

[07:51:53] Mousey Wolf (littlemouse.topaz): hi squeaky and sergal
[07:51:59] Sergal Mole: hi
...
[07:53:26] Flycan: Wait, is there a new way to avoid collisions?
[07:53:55] North Crannock: no phantom trains to drive through?
[07:54:04] Squeaky Mole: Collisions shouldn't happen unless people "cheat" and dont use the rez zones correctly or directions. But it should be better yes.
[07:54:41] Squeaky Mole: There's a reason rez zones are very specific, sadly every time someone overwrites them It can break the sidings switches.
[07:55:09] North Crannock: I still wait for the crunch as the engine the other way passes through me
[07:56:09] Flycan: Does yellow mean caution, there may be a train ahead?  Or ... hmmm ....yellow means change your clothes now?  Or .. hmmm ... yellow means caution, the train's going underwater?
[07:56:19] Squeaky Mole: The way it's designed is that when someone is on the single tracks, the block gets busy and you should not be able to pass through the switch. But it does seem sometimes people just edit-move their locomotive and that breaks it
[07:56:22] Silas Moore (mooresinlaw): https://c.tenor.com/ZC2_LqWZegMAAAAd/explode-train.gif

[07:57:18] Squeaky Mole: I'll share it. Yellow means the next block is clear, but after that it's busy. So with the new system it's a lot smarter and knows whats coming up ahead of you even if its 10-20 regions away.
[07:57:31] Flycan: Oh wow.
[07:57:41] Squeaky Mole: Rez zones you can go both ways, if not it won't let you go. It's smart enough for that (now)

[07:58:45] Squeaky Mole: But you should never pass through a red light, shouldn't be able too but sometimes it happens. That stops the real from detecting upcoming traffic and you may collide with someone as red light means someone is on the track already.
[07:59:25] Squeaky Mole: Last note. Note all locations have been updated yet, but anything new has this new system. Anything old is being updated overtime.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Nika Talaj

[animats]

Given the limitations of the Bellissaria rail system, maybe most rail vehicles should be trams, rather than multi-car trains.

The famous PCC streetcar. This is a 3D model from CG Trader, potentially convertible to Second Life use.

It's a good streetcar for Bellessaria tracks. Although long, it has a short wheelbase and a surprisingly tight turning radius. San Francisco still runs these. It's a good fit for a suburban neighborhood.

 

The rare double-ended variant. No need to turn it around. Nice for track systems which lack turnaround loops.

 

[arabellajones]

I haven't been following events with the Chalet Line but there are now rez zones at every station modelled.

[KecskeShajt Corvinus]

1 hour ago, arabellajones said:

I haven't been following events with the Chalet Line but there are now rez zones at every station modelled.

Yes, I looked and seems they really did now.

[KecskeShajt Corvinus]

5 hours ago, animats said:

Given the limitations of the Bellissaria rail system, maybe most rail vehicles should be trams, rather than multi-car trains.

The famous PCC streetcar. This is a 3D model from CG Trader, potentially convertible to Second Life use.

It's a good streetcar for Bellessaria tracks. Although long, it has a short wheelbase and a surprisingly tight turning radius. San Francisco still runs these. It's a good fit for a suburban neighborhood.

 

The rare double-ended variant. No need to turn it around. Nice for track systems which lack turnaround loops.

I am using a hungarian tram all time, just weird to run it without a catenary.

 

[KecskeShajt Corvinus]

Now I was able to pass hrough the switch of Gully Wash without dragging my tram manually, but justo to the eastern branch, the switch still doesn't work just they rearranged the guides.

[arabellajones]

I did a quick check, and while there is now an SLRR Rez zone in Randelsham Forest, which is good I didn't, see any other recent changes between there and Bridal Path. In some ways the lines east of Hawkesblood still seem a long way short of the Chalet line.

[arabellajones]

9 hours ago, animats said:

Given the limitations of the Bellissaria rail system, maybe most rail vehicles should be trams, rather than multi-car trains.

Wouldn't argue with that, but some of those third-party mesh sites explicitly ban use in Second Life. Even without that, there can be LI problems. So be careful.