New Gacha Policy Discussion

[VergilISparda]

I feel breedables will fall under that policy as well. When you buy an egg, box or whatever container is the breedable in... You know that you paid for something that is gonna end in a random outcome. Same result, just different process. (As in more steps) I could be wrong, but I guess we will all see what LL says about that soon.

[Yuki Suki]

4 minutes ago, ShanaMoon2014 said:

and I'm not asking you to be upset because of my dresses. I'm just saying my opinion is it still possible to do it in SL, or is it already a ban too?

You should research and read up first on the issue with loot box and gacha in the gaming industry before you confuse yourself more.

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Don't cause the thread to be "paused" until tomorrow...then again, maybe it's best...

I've already thrown my hands up in the air and walked it off.  People are going to believe what they want to believe until the truth bites them in the butt.

[Yuki Suki]

5 minutes ago, ShanaMoon2014 said:

ok, I understand if there are 100 people, there will be 100 different opinions, but my opinion is that the ban of gacha is the most wrong thing that I saw in SL

I dont mind gacha. But it is how it is with things in the gaming industry at this moment. You are still entitled to your opinion.

[Silent Mistwalker]

12 minutes ago, Elyssa Artis said:

I don't see how you are not understanding what I am saying.
Perhaps you are invested in your side of the argument, I'm invested in neither.

You are saying it doesn't matter because yours is coming from a 'normal vendor'. I get that.
A normal vendor giving a nest, simply shifts the coding where the random chance is rolled from the vendor to the item received.
You pay a normal vendor for a 'container'. I get that. You then get a random chance from that container to get either a boring looking breedable, or a desirable one. Whether you choose to breed it or not is irrelevant.
You paid, you got a random item, perhaps common, perhaps rare.
The breedable you get is transferrable.

By your logic, as previously stated, I can put 'containers' in a normal vendor, and upon rezzing and clicking those 'containers' a random chance is rolled for the dress option. So the roll for chance is now after the fact, rather that at the machine.

 

You aren't getting the fact that I have understood every single word you said. You aren't getting what I am saying. That was why I went back and posted the quote from the updated blog post. 

This ends my part in this conversation.

[ShanaMoon2014]

Just now, Hanjo Harvey said:

Я не против гача. Но так обстоят дела в игровой индустрии на данный момент. Вы по-прежнему имеете право на свое мнение.

thanks for letting me have my opinion, but I’m less and less eager to return to this game

[ShanaMoon2014]

21 minutes ago, Elyssa Artis said:

That's exactly my point if you hadn't seen my previous posts. It doesn't matter what it's called. Breedable starter packs act like a gacha, therefore they should be considered under the same laws.

 

11 minutes ago, Annie Nova said:

Итог ..... ЭТО СЧИТАЕТСЯ ИГРОМ, следовательно, по закону НЕЗАКОННО. Период.

 

Just now, ShanaMoon2014 said:

спасибо, что позволили мне высказать свое мнение, но я все меньше и меньше хочу вернуться в эту игру

I wish you all a good day / night, I am retiring from this chat

 

[Denis Cloud]

19 minutes ago, Stella Zong said:

As far as I know 7seas is free to fish, but you only get experience points with bait.

well, gacha is also free to look at, and you get prizes only by playing it.

[Yuki Suki]

Just now, ShanaMoon2014 said:

thanks for letting me have my opinion, but I’m less and less eager to return to this game

I hope you understand SL is not Gacha-Life. Gacha is not the core of SL. You are entitled to how you feel and react to this new change.

[Rowan Amore]

38 minutes ago, Elyssa Artis said:

Yes they are. Which is why LL really needs to give firm clear criteria for what constitutes a 'gacha' and hold all markets to that criteria.

If they are legitimately following the laws that are in place, or going to be in place, this should be simple.
In which case, solutions are not 'loopholes', simply not illegal.

Did you read the answer?  Did anyone?  Things may change.  

At the present we are working with external counsel on the subject of breedables.  If any action is required we will make a separate announcement and have a separate timeline associated with it. 

ETA.  Sorry, didn't see your subsequent post with this quote before I posted.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Elyssa Artis]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Did you read the answer?  Did anyone?  Things may change.  

At the present we are working with external counsel on the subject of breedables.  If any action is required we will make a separate announcement and have a separate timeline associated with it. 

 

13 minutes ago, Elyssa Artis said:

Don't need to, they are already on it.  "At the present we are working with external counsel on the subject of breedables."

Because it's an incredibly grey area. Firm criteria really does need to be stated by LL.
Even citing the specific laws they are complying by would be amazing.

Yes, I literally quoted part of that answer. For the people who only read the first line of the answer.

[Stella Zong]

2 minutes ago, Denis Cloud said:

well, gacha is also free to look at, and you get prizes only by playing it.

You can fish for free, get items for free, you only pay for experience points. 

[Rowan Amore]

15 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

I wonder if some posting here saying they want the gatchas to stay are those who make them?  Hmmm....

Or those addicted?

[Denis Cloud]

If there are 3-4 countries that restricted the sales of lootboxes, it might be a good solution to restrict people from that countries to get on skilled gaming sims and to move all gachas there,  as payment info has to be attached to get on that type of sims it will be hard to bypass that restriction.

[Crim Mip]

21 hours ago, Mollymews said:

while this might be a way to edge case around the regulations, i am not sure that Linden will be all that interested in defending this edge case against the regulators

as in effect people will just keep jamming pull money into the machine til the rare appears on the vendor. And as that rare appears thru some random process then it would probably make no difference to a regulator

It would probably be ok, but the issue is, it get's rid of the main reason people paid gachas. Sure you'd likely get a junk item, but you had that chance of getting the rare. If you know up front you're getting the junk, fewer will want to pay.

[Denis Cloud]

5 minutes ago, Stella Zong said:

You can fish for free, get items for free, you only pay for experience points. 

Oh nice, and you are never getting any prizes for that experience points, right?

[VergilISparda]

2 hours ago, Denis Cloud said:

If there are 3-4 countries that restricted the sales of lootboxes, it might be a good solution to restrict people from that countries to get on skilled gaming sims and to move all gachas there,  as payment info has to be attached to get on that type of sims it will be hard to bypass that restriction.

3-4? Have you read the whole thread by any chances? Legit question, don't take this as anything else my friend

[Crim Mip]

Ultimately, sellers have options. The obvious one is to sell with regular vendors and sell the items for what the seller actually hoped to average for them in the first place. Bundling some of the fluff items might help sales there, especially if they related to what had been rare items. I hope building items get sold copy/mod as well since that's stopped me from even trying a lot of gachas.

For gachas with really cheap items, they could just be set free.

They could try one of the options posted in this thread with the vendor showing the current item. I don't think buyers will go for that, but it would likely be legal.

They could pack up and leave. This sadly is what some will do.

All the arguing, and rules lawyering going on here won't affect the policy one bit. It never has in the past. LL is not run by committee.

[Elyssa Artis]

1 minute ago, VergilISparda said:

3-4? Have you read the whole thread by any chances? Legit question, don't take this as anything else my friend

I mean, it's 68 pages long, and posts are largely speculation about which laws LL may or may not be following.
Citations from LL on which laws they are being held by would be ideal.

[VergilISparda]

2 hours ago, Elyssa Artis said:

I mean, it's 68 pages long, and posts are largely speculation about which laws LL may or may not be following.
Citations from LL on which laws they are being held by would be ideal.

True, can't argue with that. Going on every country's legislations about that would take hours, can't blame you on that! lol

[Zoey Winsmore]

3 minutes ago, Denis Cloud said:

If there are 3-4 countries that restricted the sales of lootboxes, it might be a good solution to restrict people from that countries to get on skilled gaming sims and to move all gachas there,  as payment info has to be attached to get on that type of sims it will be hard to bypass that restriction.

And how would that work out to implement such thing?  I am from one of those countries that restricts sales of lootboxes in the real life.  To implement such restriction inworld is pretty much a ridiculous thing.  Banning residents based on country will only hurt Linden Labs and Second Life.  I do not even go to the skilled gaming regions.  But your solution is basically a much more crazy one similar to the you know what, travel ban.

And you said, 'sims'. Linden Labs should send you to the cornfields for a week.

[Silent Mistwalker]

8 minutes ago, Denis Cloud said:

Oh nice, and you are never getting any prizes for that experience points, right?

 

How about you read the info for yourself?

http://www.7seasfishing.com/

[LilithServil]

I kinda really don't like how item permissions are being lumped into it. Saying certain things are fine "as long as it's no transfer" is really weird-- what about it being transfer is bad exactly? Why are no transfer items okay but no copy transfer items are not?

[Kyau Brodie]

Very interesting...in the policy it never mentioned anything about item permissions. Just you can't take a payment and receive a random item. So its interesting to me that suddenly items for 7 seas must be no transfer is also part of the policy now.

Because 7seas even with no transfer catches would still be taking a payment for a random item at least in some capacity if you use bait to increase your chances of getting better random items.

The plot thickens.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Zoey Winsmore said:

Linden Labs

And you said Labs...off to the cornfield!