the telepathy thread

[Coffee Pancake]

15 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said:

But subconscious just means you haven't noticed. Isn't comprehension just the process by which a pattern is resolved to some meaning? And can't we say that what people are or are not conscious of is a matter of all sorts of factors ranging from their culture and conditioning to their relationship with internal fear to their state of restfulness? This is a vast domain of possibility already.

Huge swathes of your brain are constantly working on things before results are passed to the conscious portion, and not everything gets your attention, information from different blocks doesn't even arrive at the same time.

For example, you might be aware that you recognize a face long before a different part of your brain comes up with the persons name (etc). Such processes aren't dependable either. Face recognition might trigger an alert (or not, or be entirely missing in some people), but the parts responsible for reassembling associated information might not come to a answer it's confident enough to pass on .. hence feeling things are on the tip of your tongue. Or how sleeping on a problem can come up with a solution and then hold it for when needed.

instinctive actions can happen before you're aware of them, if you even notice.

 'Auto pilot' does a lot more of the driving than you might like, and is typically better at well trained tasks without conscious oversight - which is why somethings go great, right up to the point you think about it (touch typing for one).

Sherlock doesn't have a mind palace. His mind palace has a Sherlock and the lag / packet loss is real.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chroma Starlight]

15 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Huge swathes of your brain are constantly working on things before results are passed to the conscious portion, and not everything gets your attention, information from different blocks doesn't even arrive at the same time...

instinctive actions can happen before you're aware of them, if you even notice.

I don't disagree with these general descriptive statements;  we have propagation delay on all synaptic networks. But you say that as if that leads to any insight about what consciousness is, or what's experiencing it, how, or any of that. Or how about memory, the way we can return to a past moment and experience that again. What's going on there, that's a staggering amount of information; how does our brain even know where it's retrieved from, instantly, decades later, despite all our growth and change?

There's so much mystery, it sometimes seems as though they should follow each statement with "but we still haven't deciphered mechanisms of soul, and so this is all merely insight into the material conditions of the body, but the functioning of the soul still remains elusive to scientific pursuit after two millennia and more of Plato clearly being right and his student, Aristotle, being wrong but politically fashionable with some dudes about what it's all about." 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Coffee Pancake]

5 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Or how about memory, the way we can return to a past moment and experience that again. What's going on there, that's a staggering amount of information; how does our brain even know where it's retrieved from, instantly, decades later, despite all our growth and change?

We can't do that.

There isn't a tape recorder in your head. Events are fragmented and stored all over the place and then reassembled on demand.

Recall is very good at assembling a complete picture with all the extra detail you might like, but it's highly unlikely to be accurate the deeper you dig, your brain literally makes up information to fill in gaps.

Recall is also not read only, you can change your memories with or without conscious effort, external influences are especially powerful at changing your memories leaving you unable to accurately recall the original event.

 

Simple example - What color was first car you remember you parents owning when you were a child? Remember that car. Remember sitting in that car. Pick a different color. It should be trivial for you to picture that car in your head in the color you just chose. Do that often enough and the memory will be forever altered to the new color and you wont be able to separate memories of the original and imposed color.

Everything you think you know about yourself can be changed. Everything new you experience changes prior similar memories.

Be careful what rabbit holes you go down. We're predisposed to find certain ideas infectious.

5 minutes ago, Chroma Starlight said:

There's so much mystery, it sometimes seems as though they should follow each statement with "but we still haven't deciphered mechanisms of soul, and so this is all merely insight into the material conditions of the body, but the functioning of the soul still remains elusive to scientific pursuit after two millennia and more of Plato clearly being right and his student, Aristotle, being wrong but politically fashionable with some dudes about what it's all about." 

We don't have souls. Consciousness is an emergent phenomenon.

[Madelaine McMasters]

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Recall is also not read only, you can change your memories with or without conscious effort, external influences are especially powerful at changing your memories leaving you unable to accurately recall the original event.

This reminds me of something I posted here years ago...

 

[Chroma Starlight]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Recall is also not read only, you can change your memories with or without conscious effort, external influences are especially powerful at changing your memories leaving you unable to accurately recall the original event.

 

 

Though this is not in dismissal of your points, which are really thoughtful. 

Quote

There isn't a tape recorder in your head. Events are fragmented and stored all over the place and then reassembled on demand.

Yes, I'll concede this is literally true unless you're like Inspector Gadget, but I mean, I don't know about fragmented any more than a decimal number is "fragmented" to bits when stored in binary coding. Is it like a bunch of bits from different sections of a torrent, or is it more like a hologram somehow, everything entangled at once in a single go? I can't say.

Quote

Everything you think you know about yourself can be changed. Everything new you experience changes prior similar memories.

I'm so grateful for this ability for us to self define, to be shaped by our environments, to be able to cultivate our own character. Just imagine if our lives and how we felt about them were just completely indelible, and what you felt yesterday is what you feel now, and that's what you'll feel for every tomorrow forever. No. We have an ability to heal, to grow. Past meanings can change as new information is revealed because the world is always changing and hopefully our insight is always growing as we patch together the disparate experiences of life. 

Beyond that, there's something deeper in our ability to change. We can change fundamentally the experience of how we live in the moment, like growing wings, and that's transformative to this experience.

Quote

Be careful what rabbit holes you go down. We're predisposed to find certain ideas infectious.

Oh yeah, don't get me started about those.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We don't have souls.

 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We don't have souls. Consciousness is an emergent phenomenon.

But seriously...why not both...some are proposing that consciousness is both a fundamental and emergent property of the universe. Nothing to do with souls really...whatever that loaded term means at this point in time.

[Luna Bliss]

[Rat Luv]

Does anybody know the story about Marc Bolan? One of his songs was "Solid Gold Easy Action" and he sang "Easy as picking foxes from a tree" - and then his girlfriend drove the car with the reg plate FOX into a tree 

I know people will say "oh, it's just a coincidence!" and it probably is...but I sometimes wonder...

[Luna Bliss]

 

[Rat Luv]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

That was weird too. Liz Frazer from Cocteau Twins covered a song by Tim Buckley called "Song To The Siren", about a sailor who drowns after he chases a mermaid...and his son heard her version and loved it so much he contacted her, and they ended up dating..and then he drowned 😵

 

[Coffee Pancake]

20 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

Does anybody know the story about Marc Bolan?

Marc Bolan was my first crush .. looong after he died. 

I seem to have a thing for unobtainable men 😵

[Arielle Popstar]

7 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

But seriously...why not both...some are proposing that consciousness is both a fundamental and emergent property of the universe. Nothing to do with souls really...whatever that loaded term means at this point in time.

Experiments are showing that a Quantum mechanical universe needs a conscious observer ie soul/spirit/mind or it remains in a superposition state. That pretty much validates that the physical reality came from the spirit/mind as was mentioned by Jesus in one of the dead sea scrolls.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/coming-to-grips-with-the-implications-of-quantum-mechanics/

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Experiments are showing that a Quantum mechanical universe needs a conscious observer ie soul/spirit/mind or it remains in a superposition state. That pretty much validates that the physical reality came from the spirit/mind as was mentioned by Jesus in one of the dead sea scrolls.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/coming-to-grips-with-the-implications-of-quantum-mechanics/

Don't model stuff no one will see.

If only SL creators would take this to heart ....

[Chroma Starlight]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Experiments are showing that a Quantum mechanical universe needs a conscious observer ie soul/spirit/mind or it remains in a superposition state. That pretty much validates that the physical reality came from the spirit/mind as was mentioned by Jesus in one of the dead sea scrolls.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/coming-to-grips-with-the-implications-of-quantum-mechanics/

Oh, I'd say it's well-established that this idea had been in broad circulation for perhaps millennia at that time among those who tended to such knowledge and matters. And it was not just in that region, either, but rather all across the world in seemingly every major civilization.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Oh, I'd say it's well-established that this idea had been in broad circulation for perhaps millennia at that time among those who tended to such knowledge and matters. And it was not just in that region, either, but rather all across the world in seemingly every major civilization.

See Descartes.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Chroma Starlight said:

Oh, I'd say it's well-established that this idea had been in broad circulation for perhaps millennia at that time among those who tended to such knowledge and matters. And it was not just in that region, either, but rather all across the world in seemingly every major civilization.

Yes makes much more sense that the Universe is an emergent phenomena of a conscious observer than vice versa.

[Chroma Starlight]

35 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Yes makes much more sense that the Universe is an emergent phenomena of a conscious observer than vice versa.

We're all part of the whole, observer and observed playing a fun game of patterns and harmonies, rhythms and colors. Isn't it splendid that we may converse so?

[Innula Zenovka]

21 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Vine Deloria Jr. was named by TIME magazine as one of the greatest religious thinkers of the twentieth century.

Since I am unfamiliar with Mr Deloria's work, I consulted Wikipedia:

Quote

Deloria controversially rejected not only scientific understanding regarding the origins of indigenous peoples in the Americas, but also other aspects of the (pre)history of the Western Hemisphere that he thought contradicted Native American accounts. For example, Deloria's position on the age of certain geological formations, the length of time Native Americans have been in the Americas, and his belief that people coexisted with dinosaurs were strictly at odds with the empirical facts from a variety of academic disciplines.

Defending himself from the inevitable critiques, Deloria accused mainstream scientists of being incapable of independent thinking and hobbled by their reverence for orthodoxy. He wrote that scientists characteristically persecuted those like him who dared to advance unorthodox views. 

 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Since I am unfamiliar with Mr Deloria's work

Looks like he poked some of your sacred cows. He did get the Western world to pay attention though, like a good Trickster would, did he not? Now that you're looking at him, you might discover his astute observations regarding some of the problems in science.
https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1794/19344/Southall_oregon_0171N_11370.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

THE TRICKSTER:

   “If the fool would persist in his folly, he would become wise.” ~ William Blake

Most of us are familiar with the prototypical clowns: red-nosed clowns, court jesters, and Tarot fools. But sacred clowns take clowning to a whole other level. The Ne’wekwe “mud-eaters” were the Zuni equivalent of a sacred clown. The Cherokee had sacred clowns known as Boogers who performed “Booger dances” around a community fire.

In Tibetan Buddhism it’s referred to as Crazy Wisdom, which the Guru adopts in order to shock their students out of fixed cultural and psychological patterns. But perhaps the most popular type of sacred clown is the Lakota equivalent of Heyoka, a contrary thunder shaman who taught through backwards humor.

Almost all types of sacred clowns combine trickster spirit with shamanic wisdom to create a kind of sacred tomfoolery that keeps the zeitgeist in check. Their methods are unconventional and typically antithetical to the status quo, but extremely effective. They indirectly re-enforce societal customs by directly enforcing their own powerful sense of humor into the social dynamic. They show by bad example how not to behave.

The main function of a sacred clown is to deflate the ego of power by reminding those in power of their own fallibility, while also reminding those who are not in power that power has the potential to corrupt if not balanced with other forces, namely with humor. But sacred clowns don’t out-rightly derive things. They’re not comedians, per se, though they can be. They are more like tricksters, poking holes in things that people take too seriously.

Through acts of satire and showy displays of blasphemy, sacred clowns create a cultural dissonance born from their Crazy Wisdom, from which anxiety is free to collapse on itself into laughter. Sacred seriousness becomes sacred anxiety which then becomes sacred laughter. But without the courageous satire of the sacred clown, there would only ever be the overly-serious, prescribed state of cultural conditioning.

Lest we write our lives off to such stagnated states, we must become something that has the power to perpetually overcome itself. The sacred clown has this power. Christ was a sacred clown, mocking the orthodoxy. Buddha was a sacred clown, mocking ego attachment. Even Gandhi was a sacred clown, mocking money and power.

Like Thomas Merton wrote, “In a world of tension and breakdown, it is necessary for there to be those who seek to integrate their inner lives not by avoiding anguish and running away from problems, but by facing them in their naked reality and in their ordinariness.” Sacred clowns are the epitome of such integration.

Heyokas, for example, remind their people that Wakan tanka, the great mystery, is beyond good and evil; that its primordial nature doesn’t correspond to human platitudes of right and wrong. Heyokas act as mirrors, reflecting the mysterious dualities of the cosmos back onto their people. They walk the Red Road, following in the bloody footprints left behind by their Heyoka fore-brothers.

They go forward, to that place where emptiness is full, and fullness empty. “As a representative of Thunderbird and Trickster,” writes Steve Mizrach, “the heyoka reminds his people that the primordial energy of nature is beyond good and evil. It doesn’t correspond to human categories of right and wrong.

It doesn’t always follow our preconceptions of what is expected and proper. It doesn’t really care about our human woes and concerns. Like electricity, it can be deadly dangerous, or harnessed for great uses. If we’re too narrow or parochial in trying to understand it, it will zap us in the middle of the night.”

Sacred clowns are adept at uniting joy with pain, acting on the higher and more inscrutable imperatives of the Great Mystery. They tend to govern transition, introduce paradox, blur boundaries, and mix the sacred with the profane. They are called upon to reestablish the bridge between the physical and spiritual worlds. They dare to ask the questions that nobody wants answers to.

They are the uncontrollable avatars of the Trickster archetype, constant reminders of the contingency and arbitrariness of the social order, poking holes in anything taken too seriously, especially anything assuming the guise of power. They are a conduit to forces that defy comprehension, and by their absurd, backwards behavior, they are merely showing the ironic, mysterious dualities that exist within the universe itself.

Sacred clowns understand that humans fail, and failing means that sometimes we need to change. They remind us that the goal is not to stick to the same old path, but to embrace the vicissitudes of life and to discover new paths and the courage it takes to adapt and overcome.

Taking the universe into deep consideration, letting it be, and then letting it go, is far superior to clinging to a “belief” and becoming stuck in a particular view. Sacred clowns realize that the highest wisdom lies in this type of counter-intuitive detachment, in accepting that nothing remains the same, and then being proactive about what it means to change.

Most importantly, they teach us that there is no such thing as an enlightened master. We’re all spiritually dumb. The closest we can ever get to being “enlightened” is simply to understand that we are naïve to it, and then to laugh about it together as a community.

Sacred clowns have the ability to plant this seed of sacred humor. They are constantly in the throes of metanoia, disturbing the undisturbed, comforting the uncomfortable and freeing the unfree. They remind us, as Rumi did, that “the ego is merely a veil between humans and God.”

https://fractalenlightenment.com/25726/spirituality/the-path-of-the-sacred-clown-where-trickster-and-shaman-converge

 

[Ceka Cianci]

What would suck about being telepathic is,losing the voicemail ability..

Sorry I'm not home right now, please leave a message..

[Luna Bliss]

23 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

So either ESP means there's something wrong with our understanding of the way the universe works and someone should contact CERN immediately or, alternatively, there's something wrong with either the data or our understanding of it

You can contact this guy, John Hagelin, at CERN, who seems to be validating the world beyond pure materialism that you can't see beyond:

John Hagelin, Ph.D., is a world-renowned quantum physicist, educator, author, and leading proponent of peace.

Dr. Hagelin conducted pioneering research at CERN (the European Center for Particle Physics) and the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center. He is responsible for the develop­ment of a highly successful grand unified field theory based on the superstring. His articles on electroweak unification, grand unification, super-symmetry and cosmology include some of the most cited references in the physical sciences.

In addition, Dr. Hagelin has spent much of the past quarter century leading a scientific investigation into the foundations of human consciousness. He is one of the world’s preeminent researchers on the effects of meditation on brain development, and the use of collective meditation to defuse acute societal stress, to reduce associated crime and violence, and to promote societal peace.

In recognition of his outstanding achievements, Dr. Hagelin was named winner of the prestigious Kilby Award, which recognizes scientists who have made “major contributions to society through their applied research in the fields of science and technology.” The award recognized Dr. Hagelin as “a scientist in the tradition of Einstein, Jeans, Bohr and Eddington.”

Dr. Hagelin is President of the Global Union of Scientists for Peace.
He received his A.B. summa ***** laude from Dartmouth College in 1975
and his Ph.D. from Harvard University in 1981. He also serves as President,
professor of physics, and director of the Institute of Science, Technology and
Public Policy at Maharishi University of Management in Iowa, USA

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

I like this paper Hagelin wrote in the late 80's, though it's very difficult to wade through and requires a pretty deep knowledge of Physics. He is presenting one of the many theories of consciousness:

 "Is Consciousness The Unified Field: A Field Theorists Perspective"

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.385.1265&rep=rep1&type=pdf

“Modern science over the last 50 years has revealed that our physical universe is structured in layers of creation. This inward exploration is explored in four different parts, from outside in. Classical Mechanics is the study of the world of macroscopic objects that we can see. Quantum Mechanics is the discovery of the atom. Deeper than the atom is the atomic nucleus and sub nuclear particles, called Quantum Field Theory. Finally, the recent discovery of Unified Field Theories.”

"Dr Hagelin illustrates that at the fourth and deepest layer, Unified Field Theories or super string theories reveal the fundamental unity of life, “They show that at the basis of our diverse universe is a single universal field of intelligence – the fountainhead of all the laws of nature, and the source of all order displayed throughout the universe.”

https://tmhome.com/uncategorized/scientific-perspective-quantum-physicist-john-hagelin-phd/

Edited July 8, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

8 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

15 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

But seriously...why not both...some are proposing that consciousness is both a fundamental and emergent property of the universe. Nothing to do with souls really...whatever that loaded term means at this point in time.

Experiments are showing that a Quantum mechanical universe needs a conscious observer ie soul/spirit/mind or it remains in a superposition state. That pretty much validates that the physical reality came from the spirit/mind as was mentioned by Jesus in one of the dead sea scrolls.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/coming-to-grips-with-the-implications-of-quantum-mechanics/

I liked that paper 

Do you have the quote from the dead sea scrolls?

[Madelaine McMasters]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

In Tibetan Buddhism it’s referred to as Crazy Wisdom, which the Guru adopts in order to shock their students out of fixed cultural and psychological patterns.

 

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Their methods are unconventional and typically antithetical to the status quo, but extremely effective. They indirectly re-enforce societal customs by directly enforcing their own powerful sense of humor into the social dynamic. They show by bad example how not to behave.

So, clowns shock people out of fixed cultural patterns by indirectly reinforcing societal customs?