the telepathy thread

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, cunomar said:

Telepathy exists , as the saying goes "animals smell fear" . But you can stare down a vicious dog forcing it to back away if you mentally tear it apart with your teeth .

That's because they can actually smell fear, dogs especially, smell you better than it can see you.

1 hour ago, cunomar said:

It's an untrained Neanderthal instinct because we live in a civilized world .

But apparently an insufficient super power to stop the smaller, weaker hoomans from stealing their lunch money.

1 hour ago, cunomar said:

I would very much like to link a rl story here of an Argentinian military officer who though captured was refusing to relinquish his weapon , until an S.A.S soldier chanced to walk by and simply looked at him .

According to witnesses, without a word spoken the message was obviously heard loud and clear because the captive dropped his weapon instantly .

Or he was just waiting for the right person to surrender to, as is not uncommon for military types with a stick up their .. 

 

 

[Rat Luv]

1 hour ago, cunomar said:

Telepathy exists , as the saying goes "animals smell fear" . But you can stare down a vicious dog forcing it to back away if you mentally tear it apart with your teeth .

I saw something interesting about dogs on YT but can't remember what it was called. It was something like, a conman (who later got caught) had knocked on someone's door and the owner remembered the dog going nuts, and growling and barking at the stranger, and thought that the dog could detect his bad intentions - but it was actually the dog reacting to the owner's discomfort...the owner had a gut reaction to the stranger and the dog picked up on it.

I wish I could remember the name...there was also a bit about how a woman was attacked by a man in  a car park when she was with her child, and she went into 'mother bear' autopilot mode and flattened him. 

[Innula Zenovka]

11 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

From a broader perspective, Pascal is saying that people who believe in God are going to win anyway, regardless of why they believe and whether God exists.

The more I think about it, Pascal was writing about this wager while the Thirty Years War was still raging in much of Europe, or shortly after it, and whether whether someone at the time believed in the God of the Roman Catholics or the God of the Protestants would have had a huge effect on their fortunes in this life as well the next, and if they believed in Allah... .

I think part of the problem is the word "believe" has a variety of different meanings.    It doesn't mean the same thing in the sentence "I believe in freedom and democracy" as it does in the sentence "I believe in the Loch Ness monster."   

The former is a way of saying these abstract principles are things that are important to you and which you believe have value in deciding how you and others should live,  while the latter is a statement about your view on the evidence for a possibly factual proposition for which there is as yet insufficient evidence, but you think is nevertheless true.

To my mind, belief in a god or gods is more an example of the former than the latter, at least for most people.

 

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

I don't think a discussion about whether or not telepathy exists will not gets us very far in terms of convincing the believers/non-believers alike.

What would be more entertaining and perhaps even educational, is a discussion about how much telepathy has been proven useful for humanity, similar to how radio communication has been proven useful.

I also notice people seem to have different definitions of telepathy.

I would have assumed that telepathy was the ability to transmit your thoughts to someone else without the aid of technology.

But, in a broader sense, there seems to be not only the transmission but also the reception aspect of it. The ability to read someone else's mind (with or without their consent). In that broader sense, telepathy, if it really works, or can be developed to be adopted widely, would have grave consequences for society. No more lies. No more secrets. No more privacy. Even if only a select few were gifted with such abilities.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Luna Bliss]

19 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

What would be more entertaining and perhaps even educational, is a discussion about how much telepathy has been proven useful for humanity, similar to how radio communication has been proven useful.

 

19 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

I also notice people seem to have different definitions of telepathy.

I would have assumed that telepathy was the ability to transmit your thoughts to someone else without the aid of technology.

But, in a broader sense, there seems to be not only the transmission but also the reception aspect of it.

It looks like telepathy can be defined as one of the many forms of ESP (extra sensory perception). Definition:

"...transmission of information from one person to another without using any known human sensory channels or physical interaction".

I know the military has been active in a type of ESP named 'remote viewing' where one person attempts to gather information about a distant location with their mind. Not sure what the current status is ...  here's a CIA article:

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00791R000200180005-5.pdf

[Luna Bliss]

I had some fun reading about Natives related to the discovery of dinosaurs in the U.S., although I'm afraid it took me away from attempting to comprehend Vine Deloria Jr. to the degree I planned. Anyway, I had no idea Natives were so vital to the development of paleontology in the U.S.

An interesting bit:

"Strangely, prehistoric and ancient people with a pre-scientific understanding of nature had a better handle on what fossils represented than western scholars and naturalists of the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries who considered fossils to simply be an attempt by rock to imitate life. While many ancient and aboriginal cultures considered dinosaur bones to be the remains or real creatures, western savants often passed off fossils as weird “sports of nature” that were created by supernatural forces within the earth. After all, religious dogma dictated that the world was only a few thousands of years old, and that the whole earth was created as is within that compressed timeframe. There was no room in biblical chronologies for fossils, so, therefore, the shark teeth, clam shells, mammal skeletons, and dinosaur bones had to be intricate fakes that could too-easily trick the unwary. It took decades of research, discovery, and re-discovery of older ideas before naturalists realized that fossils were true vestiges of prehistoric life, and that extinction was a reality. By 1800, at the latest, a scientific understanding of prehistory was finally forming."

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/a-brief-history-of-hidden-dinosaurs-9663115/

https://www.desertusa.com/desert-activity/dino.html

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

here's a CIA article:

Haha, thanks.  I skipped straight to the conclusions, btw. TL;DR: "It's useless to us."

The true believer's immediate retort would, of course be: "[insert conspiracy trope here - preferably all caps]!!!!"

And who are we to blame them? They are, after all, 'published CIA reports'.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Haha, thanks.  I skipped straight to the conclusions, btw. TL;DR: "It's useless to us."

The true believer's immediate retort would, of course be: "[insert conspiracy trope here - preferably all caps]!!!!"

And who are we to blame them? They are, after all, 'published CIA reports'.

Ooops...I see that paper is from 1995 and so very dated. I should check into later studies.  Yes, you do have to wonder....if they find positive results are they going to let us know?

[Arielle Popstar]

19 hours ago, Bagnu said:

Interesting concept of the dinosaurs coexisting with man. There is the possibility of dragons being based on fossils that were found by people in the past. Do you have any sources stating that "soft" bits were found. and dated?

Plenty of stories about sightings in different parts of the world from over the years and even some grainy pictures. The soft bit's were initially spotted by Mary Schweitzer's research on a dinosaur bone. By all rights they should not have been there but they were and since then, quite a few other researchers have found similar soft bits in other specimens. In past it was determined these sort of bits should have lasted no longer than 30,000 years so finding it as part of a dinosaur from 65 million years old is a bit of a contradiction. Scientists have scrambled to come up with a plausible justification to account for it once it was determined to have definitely been bits of the T-Rex vs contamination. Last I looked at it, they have come up with some justification from cross linked iron molecules capable of lasting much longer then originally thought, however a question noone seems to be asking is if these bio bits are being found on a 65 million year old fossil, why are they not being found on much more recent bones like Mammoths and other megafauna that died only 10-15,000 years ago.

Here are some links pro and con for backround though they do not necessarily support my own thinking on it. https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/schweitzers-dangerous-discovery https://www.icr.org/article/6084/  https://www.livescience.com/41537-t-rex-soft-tissue.html

One for modern sightings though some google searches will turn up plenty of other sites though not from "official" science sites . https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/07/mysterious-living-dinosaurs-of-the-wild-west/

https://s8int.com/2020/11/28/eyewitness-accounts-do-dinosaurs-still-exist-page-3/

9 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Now I'm even more curious..

How did the dinosaurs get inside the rocks?

The rock formed around them. 

http://www.columbia.edu/~vjd1/sed_rx.htm

https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geology/dinosaur-bone-age.htm

10 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Citation?

If this is about Mary Schweitzer's dinosaur soft tissue discovery, I'm looking forward to what you've found to support your claim.

 

Haha, I think we have already discussed this in a previous thread so other then what I already posted for Bagnu and Ceka, I will refrain from derailing the thread any further.

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

I don't think a discussion about whether or not telepathy exists will not gets us very far in terms of convincing the believers/non-believers alike.

If it could be demonstrated it worked better than random chance and blind guess work.

It wouldn't even have to work all the time or reliably. If it could beat base statistical probability, it would indeed be something worth considering.

[Arielle Popstar]

Back on ESP, an interesting aside involves deer and how often hunters report that they seem to have a sixth sense in determining when there is danger lurking about. One hunting gear clothing company used the latest scientific research on electromagnetic vibrations said to emanate from every living being to create a suit that is in effect a faraday cage to absorb those energies and allow the hunter to get much closer to the deer.

 

[Luna Bliss]

At the 25-minute mark of the following video you can see Deloria describe some sort of creature with hard skin the Natives couldn't kill with an arrow as they could the buffalo... reported to him via source material from the 1800's. He never used the word 'dinosaur' there, but at least I can see how he might have gotten the impression there were creatures similar to dinosaurs before the conquering of the west in the U.S.  I'd like to find that source material and estimate its credibility. Or see where he actually claimed, in his own words, and seriously, that dinosaurs and humans occupied the earth at the same time.

Anyway, as the author of 'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee', Dee Brown, claimed, I think Deloria was being a Trickster and poking the pig, the powers that be who continued to treat Natives unfairly via distorting their experience. The author of Bury My Heart, Brown, stated that Deloria did not believe it. This article is good to see examples of his "scathing and sardonic humor":
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2005/nov/24/guardianobituaries.usa

He was certainly a beloved figure to many Natives. Here's a tribute to him:
https://scholarship.richmond.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1331&context=jepson-faculty-publications

In the video he encourages students to find missing information using the computers he seems enthralled with (it's early 2000's). I think it's a worthy goal, as History has been written by the victors from their perspective. Of course we need scientific research to get a clearer picture (for example, were other animals like the one described in his source material found in the records).
Here's where he talks about the hard-skinned creature at the 25-minute mark:

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 hours ago, Rat Luv said:

I saw something interesting about dogs on YT but can't remember what it was called. It was something like, a conman (who later got caught) had knocked on someone's door and the owner remembered the dog going nuts, and growling and barking at the stranger, and thought that the dog could detect his bad intentions - but it was actually the dog reacting to the owner's discomfort...the owner had a gut reaction to the stranger and the dog picked up on it.

I wish I could remember the name...there was also a bit about how a woman was attacked by a man in  a car park when she was with her child, and she went into 'mother bear' autopilot mode and flattened him. 

 

When you are afraid, you sweat. Dogs smell the fear sweat, which does have a distinct odor to it.

It's called adrenaline and is what has enabled women, in the past, to lift cars that had fallen off the jacks off of their husbands. And I'm not talking about the lightweight cars of today. I mean those heavy monsters of the 40s, 50s and 60s, even 70s.

[Luna Bliss]

The nature of reality...could it include psychic experiences or extraordinary forms of consciousness inherent in the Natives of long ago? Many Western models say 'no', that the experiences of Natives long ago was simply "magical thinking". To actually know the answer we would have to go back and relate to the world with the type of connected consciousness they thrived in though -- it was so very different. I'm not sure it can be comprehended intellectually, and it was actually the experience of it during an intensive vision quest which makes me know there are better, more inclusive and expansive, forms of consciousness.

In the following article a MA student thesis attempts to describe Natives relationship to the land and greater interconnectedness as described by Deloria, as well as Deloria's critique of Western science:
https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1794/19344/Southall_oregon_0171N_11370.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Deloria claims, in his book "The World We Used to Live In: Remembering the Powers of the Medicine Men", that in many instances what we today call "magical thinking" was not a delusion and very accessible when Natives were far more connected to each other and the land than most people are today. In order to test this scientifically though it just won't work to grab random people off the street -- we need people who embody a more connected type of consciousness (Natives who embody it, dedicated Yoga practitioners & meditators who have more likely minimized the ego consciousness that causes separation, or anybody else that works to minimize patterned ways of thinking/attachments to concepts so prevalent in the Western world). Psi phenomena would simply not typically happen to the average person on the street -- we need people with more fluid boundaries for these tests.

[Rolig Loon]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Back on ESP, an interesting aside involves deer and how often hunters report that they seem to have a sixth sense in determining when there is danger lurking about. One hunting gear clothing company used the latest scientific research on electromagnetic vibrations said to emanate from every living being to create a suit that is in effect a faraday cage to absorb those energies and allow the hunter to get much closer to the deer.

That's silly.  All they need to do is get in a car after dark on a country road.  Deer sense danger and they freeze. You can run right into them.

[Luna Bliss]

40 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

If it could be demonstrated it worked better than random chance and blind guess work.

It wouldn't even have to work all the time or reliably. If it could beat base statistical probability, it would indeed be something worth considering.

There are some links to explore in this article:

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-03633-1_14

Too lazy myself atm, but if you scroll down to the bottom section of this article, named '14.4.2 Psi: Measuring the Transcendental' I see lots of experiments I've never checked out that the author claims have statistical significance.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's silly.  All they need to do is get in a car after dark on a country road.  Deer sense danger and they freeze. You can run right into them.

 

Hence the expression "deer in the headlights".

[Nalates Urriah]

On 7/5/2021 at 2:16 PM, Quistess Alpha said:

If this isn't a joke. . . I might be tempted to say something mean.

...say something mean.... wouldn't be very compassionate.

Just make a note of who's fallen off the end of the pier so you won't mistake their comments as as something to take seriously in other threads.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's silly.  All they need to do is get in a car after dark on a country road.  Deer sense danger and they freeze. You can run right into them.

I have heard that but not experienced it with the 5+ deer I see per week, as I do a delivery route very early morning in the country. The only run in incident I have had with one was when I was driving up one country road and I spotted a deer standing in the shallow ditch next to the road. My ESP communication with him told me he was going to jump out so I immediately started to slow down and when I was just about even with him, sure enough he jumped out and tried to run my car over! He landed on the hood, scrabbled across it and took off into the field opposite. Still have the scratches on the hood.

[Luna Bliss]

btw...last night I heard strange sounds coming from my garden. I rose from my bed, clasping my beloved phone, and was able to capture on video what I discovered:  

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Bagnu]

5 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's silly.  All they need to do is get in a car after dark on a country road.  Deer sense danger and they freeze. You can run right into them.

Deer freeze from headlights because they are blinded.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The rock formed around them. 

I know the rock formed around them.. But you are catching the middle of when I came in.. hehehe

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I know the rock formed around them.

Cuz, as we both know, rocks are even sneakier than dinosaurs. If you move slowly enough, the dinosaurs don't see you coming. Rocks also know this.

Someday they'll sneak up on us.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Cuz, as we both know, rocks are even sneakier than dinosaurs. If you move slowly enough, the dinosaurs don't see you coming. Rocks also know this.

Someday they'll sneak up on us.

Just as we can sneak up on the deer and elk without any special gimmicks.. hehehe

Edited July 9, 2021 by Ceka Cianci

[Rolig Loon]

1 minute ago, Bagnu said:

Deer freeze from headlights because they are blinded.

Yup.  It happens all the time.  When you live in the rural Midwest, you see a lot of deer do that, and you know plenty of people who have run into them. Whether it's because the deer's eyes are temporarily overloaded by too much light or because the deer panic and can't decide what to do next is anyone's guess.  Deer aren't the only animals to behave that way.  People will do it too.