the telepathy thread

[Rat Luv]

Just now, Rolig Loon said:

 Me too.  If you want me to accept that all sorts of fine magical things are real, play by my rules.  Use scientific processes to dive into the rabbit holes and root out the pesky errors and biases that hide what might be there. 

Why though?  It's just a fun thread.

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

Just now, Rat Luv said:

Why though?  It's just a fun thread.

Because digging for the truth is a lot more fun than magical thinking!

[Rolig Loon]

1 minute ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I'll see you in hell, Loon.

;-).

Probably.

[Coffee Pancake]

Everyone I'd care to spend an afterlife with is going to hell according to someone's book,  wouldn't want to end up anywhere else.

[Rat Luv]

NM

Edited July 6, 2021 by Rat Luv

[Rolig Loon]

5 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

Why though?  It's just a fun thread.

It is a fun thread, Rat. Chroma and I are not out to convince each other -- not much chance of that -- but the conversation is fun.  We're setting out the parameters for very different ways of looking at reality.  It reminds me of being 20 years old and sitting around a friend's apartment discussing the fate of the universe until 4 a.m.  That's worth doing every once in a while to keep you from getting stodgy.

[Chroma Starlight]

45 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

... he believed everything he was experiencing was an elaborate fantasy.  I did not exist, the room we were sitting in and the wine we were drinking did not exist.  They were all in his mind.  When he died, he believed, the entire universe would die with him because it was all a marvelous fiction.

Why'd he stop there, he was doing so well. When his body dies, if it's all part of the elaborate fantasy, wouldn't that just be a shift of scene? Maybe he was always 'dead,' just a projection out of nowhere of a pattern whose existence isn't determined by someone who holds it any more than turning off a TV could end the transmission. I'm certain I can't say what's going on there in that hypothetical, but it's interesting.

Quote

If you want me to accept that all sorts of fine magical things are real, play by my rules.  Use scientific processes to dive into the rabbit holes and root out the pesky errors and biases that hide what might be there. 

I want us to so that we might share a most diverse beautiful nuanced natural reality in a harmonious manner and that we might take inspiration from the same sources in a sustainable way. That said, science is not authoritative on how reality actually works; they're students of the natural world, and there's need for more perspectives than just theirs.

Science doesn't necessarily always apply a scientifically valid way of determining what matters when formulating what questions to ask, or how, and so it feels like sometimes policy or funding or something can lead science myopically around in circles, avoiding important realizations, some of which  were once long ago already well understood.  Science is still working out the most basic things about cats that their fanciers could have told you about millennia ago, and it's like this all over the place whenever some conflict-of-interest arises. That's how you wind up with "mystery asbestos" in Johnson & Johnson baby powder forever.
 

Quote

“On April 12, 1633, chief inquisitor Father Vincenzo Maculani da Firenzuola, appointed by Pope Urban VIII, begins the inquisition of physicist and astronomer Galileo Galilei. Galileo was ordered to turn himself in to the Holy Office to begin trial for holding the belief that the Earth revolves around the sun, which was deemed heretical by the Catholic Church. Standard practice demanded that the accused be imprisoned and secluded during the trial.”

“This was the second time that Galileo was in the hot seat for refusing to accept Church orthodoxy that the Earth was the immovable center of the universe: In 1616, he had been forbidden from holding or defending his beliefs. In the 1633 interrogation, Galileo denied that he “held” belief in the Copernican view but continued to write about the issue and evidence as a means of “discussion” rather than belief. The Church had decided the idea that the sun moved around the Earth was an absolute fact of scripture that could not be disputed, despite the fact that scientists had known for centuries that the Earth was not the center of the universe.“

(from https://www.quora.com/Was-Ferdinand-II-Holy-Roman-Emperor-present-at-the-trial-of-Galileo )

Edited July 6, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Luna Bliss]

7 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

NM

So what do you think was happening when you stared at the back of that man and had a creepy feeling, later to discover he was off his rocker? Did you 'pick up on' something the physical world did not reveal to you?  Or do you think there were actual physical cues that were out of your awareness causing these feelings of fear?

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 minute ago, Rolig Loon said:

It is a fun thread, Rat. Chroma and I are not out to convince each other -- not much chance of that -- but the conversation is fun.  We're setting out the parameters for very different ways of looking at reality.  It reminds me of being 20 years old and sitting around a friend's apartment discussing the fate of the universe until 4 a.m.  That's worth doing every once in a while to keep you from getting stodgy.

I've wanted to restart those conversations. I have a half dozen friends who're ready to meet several times a year for all-nighters.

Speaking of 4AM. I think these two videos are very apropo to this thread...

 

[Luna Bliss]

28 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

If you want me to accept that all sorts of fine magical things are real, play by my rules.  Use scientific processes to dive into the rabbit holes and root out the pesky errors and biases that hide what might be there. 

I don't want you to accept my beliefs, nor do I have to play by your rules.

Science simply doesn't have all the answers....when you believe it does and that it's the only way to define reality that's called 'scientism', and you shouldn't foist it on anyone.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I

You seem to believe that because you see certain googled psychological patterns in people's experience on this thread that your perception is the only true one. Sure, we have the capacity to fool ourselves. There are many psychological tests demonstrating this propensity.
The problem is, we don't ALWAYS fool ourselves and it's not for YOU to say that because you don't believe in someone's experience on this thread that they are automatically fooling themselves because of this neat little psychological article or experiment you googled which backs up your theory.

It's a very convenient ploy, Madelaine, to play junior psychologist and google test researcher extraordinaire, as a way for you to diss someone's beliefs you don't agree with.

Anyone can describe something they experienced and I can easily find a psychological test (there are many) that MIGHT apply to their situation, but this doesn't mean it automatically does. You repeatedly, egregiously, act as judge and jury over others experience. I find it quite noxious.

[Silent Mistwalker]

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

So what do you think was happening when you stared at the back of that man and had a creepy feeling, later to discover he was off his rocker? Did you 'pick up on' something the physical world did not reveal to you?  Or do you think there were actual physical cues that were out of your awareness causing these feelings of fear?

Haven't we all seen people who gave us the creeps within seconds of encountering them, even from behind? That "feeling" is the result of subconscious processes analyzing things the physical world reveals to us. There's no time to analyze this feeling or the recognition processes that drive it, only time to detect and react. It's not so much that the physical world isn't revealing things to us, it's that our subconscious isn't. The conscious mind is too thoughtful and deliberative to save its own skin.

I annoy my friends when we attend the annual Halloween magic show because I have learned to override my subconscious to an extent that I can ignore the on-stage diversions and capture the deception. When AR glasses finally hit the mainstream, I expect people like me will wear them to magic shows and photograph the real magic, which is the ease with which a skilled magician can manipulate our conscious mind by manipulating the subconscious.

[Chroma Starlight]

5 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

...When AR glasses finally hit the mainstream, I expect people like me will wear them to magic shows and photograph the real magic, which is the ease with which a skilled magician can manipulate our conscious mind by manipulating the subconscious.

People should apply this level of skepticism to voices of absolute authority and maybe cut the stage professionals some slack? It's not like that's an easy gig, you know. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Haven't we all seen people who gave us the creeps within seconds of encountering them, even from behind? That "feeling" is the result of subconscious processes analyzing things the physical world reveals to us. There's no time to analyze this feeling or the recognition processes that drive it, only time to detect and react. It's not so much that the physical world isn't revealing things to us, it's that our subconscious isn't. The conscious mind is too thoughtful and deliberative to save its own skin.

It can be, yes, our liminal consciousness picking up on  physical signs or attributes we're not consciously aware of. However you're assuming this is ALWAYS the case.

The subconscious mind detects "energy" and "vibes" as well, and we can even learn to detect this consciously. I've learned to feel energy in my hands, and in my body, through mediation mainly, that I previously did not know existed. I'm not going to discount my direct experience just because you haven't seen proof of it on a graph somewhere. If you don't believe this exists, fine, but quit telling others they are delusional or imagining things. 

2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I have learned to override my subconscious to an extent

lol

[Rat Luv]

.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Rat Luv

[Silent Mistwalker]

15 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Haven't we all seen people who gave us the creeps within seconds of encountering them, even from behind? That "feeling" is the result of subconscious processes analyzing things the physical world reveals to us. There's no time to analyze this feeling or the recognition processes that drive it, only time to detect and react. It's not so much that the physical world isn't revealing things to us, it's that our subconscious isn't. The conscious mind is too thoughtful and deliberative to save its own skin.

I annoy my friends when we attend the annual Halloween magic show because I have learned to override my subconscious to an extent that I can ignore the on-stage diversions and capture the deception. When AR glasses finally hit the mainstream, I expect people like me will wear them to magic shows and photograph the real magic, which is the ease with which a skilled magician can manipulate our conscious mind by manipulating the subconscious.

Sometimes I think you're my good twin.

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Sometimes I think you're my good twin.

Noooooo, white stains too easily.

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

.

••• --- •••

[Madelaine McMasters]

...throws Rowan a handsome sailor.

[Luna Bliss]

20 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

.

Speaketh your mind, Rat Luv!  I will protect you from these evil proponents of SCIENTISM !!!!!!!!!!

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

maybe tomorrow...too sleepy...

[norajulian]

9/10 times, I have no ability to connect to people. 
 

Do I have to? 

[Sukubia Scarmon]

57 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Haven't we all seen people who gave us the creeps within seconds of encountering them, even from behind? That "feeling" is the result of subconscious processes analyzing things the physical world reveals to us. There's no time to analyze this feeling or the recognition processes that drive it, only time to detect and react. It's not so much that the physical world isn't revealing things to us, it's that our subconscious isn't. The conscious mind is too thoughtful and deliberative to save its own skin.

That's basically how I explain my personal superpower; my intuition, to people! 
I'm no psychic, I don't have eyes on the back of my head, and I don't feel goddamn auras. But I likely have turned a bit and had whom/whatever in my pheriphal vision, and my subconciousness picks it up, and warns me. 

(I am also very sure that my intuition is strong because due to traumatic events in my childhood, I relied on that. Basically, I had to be able to sort friends and foes pretty quickly, thus my subconciousness learned to read even the faintest of clues. I guess!)

[Arielle Popstar]

5 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

When you take the time to truly get to know someone, you get a feel for how they think and react. No Telepathy required.

True enough but that doesn't explain how in many relationships the two people knew each other better during the honeymoon than they did during the divorce proceedings.😏