Bellisseria

[NeonSteamPunk]

I m sorry to post this, it will sound cynical, but I just can not enjoy my home in Bellisseria continent.
It looks excellent, but.my frames are 4/5 everywhere on the whole continent 20 at best and the lag and and slow rez is annoying, and it's not just me or my connection or my settings (gone threw this with too many people). I made a video of me in my dead region, not a soul around for regions.

The scripting in the sim shows low,

My draw distance is only 64 , btw is not a lot of fun either, the norm I have it set to 512, with no problems.

I have a GTX 1060, 100mb line, 2019 gaming computer my SL works great in every private region, and not bad in most mainland.

Look at my FPS in the video, that is so bad I can not even have fun or build anything. In the video, I start at my home in Bellissaria, than I teleport a private region than I teleport to a mainland region and go back to Bellisseria.
This has been for the past six weeks,  I have tried three different homes and regions with all the same laggy mess, I can not have fun when it looks like someone turning the pages of a book as a fps.

The house looks great, but to ride a bike, car or build things are almost impossible, I am hoping to wait it out and see if it gets better but wow, after all that time I waited to even claim land there now I wish I stayed renting on a free account.

 

[Syo Emerald]

I haven't had problems so far. I have a decent performance being in my house and was able to sail across Belli yesterday. So it doesn't seem to hit everyone equally.

[Pussycat Catnap]

I usually get from 40-100 fps there.

Something is wrong, but it's not the continent per se.

The Moles took extra care to limit the scripts. Notice how every house uses the hand for touch? That's because they used one single script for the entire house and it just detects what part you touched... annoys the heck out of me, but it reduced potential lag by a LOT.

The continent is full of tricks like that.

 

I'm at the coords in your video right now and it's between 35-81 fps.

 

Also... the correct forum for this thread is:

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/357-linden-homes/

- which actually happens to be an even more active subform here than the general forum. Get this thread moved to there and you're looking at getting 10 pages of replies, easy... 😉

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Solar Legion]

I am now tempted to see what my system's performance would be on that continent.

[Sister Nova]

Sorry to hear that things don’t work well for you there. But in the spirit of fairness I have to say I have never experienced a problem there. I’ve had several homes over the period it has been open and have travelled the continent extensively by road, rail, sea and air.

I guess the expression ’your mileage may vary’ has to be kept in mind and anyone considering upgrading to a premium account should spend some time there first to see how it plays for them before making the financial commitment.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Check for updates to your operating system, your GPU, your router, your browser, etc...

But since you're getting the issue in so specific a spot - you say this happens all over Bellisseria? For me it doesn't happen even when I go where you made your video, or I'd assume a neighbor had rezzed something bad...

So I'm not sure...

Edited July 24, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

The Moles took extra care to limit the scripts.

Yes but scripts don't affect frame rate and they were extremely careless when it came to limiting the render load.

I've done a few performance checks around in Bellisseria and got very different results. Sometimes I got frame rates similar to what I get in the old Linden Homes regions which isn't really good of course but usually not a big issue. At other times I got disastrously low performance in scenes that didn't look that much different at first glance.

I'm not sure what causes this apparent inconsistency but my theory is that it's partly because the reason Bellisseria can work at all is that it's very much based on reusing textures and meshes, partly because of the different content residents have rezzed there and partly because the load/fps ratio is not linear. The distribution of vegetation may also be an important factor.

---

What frame rate you get depends of course a lot on the total number vertices and texture pixels you viewer have to handle but the number of unique geometry and textures is also significant. In other words, two separate surfaces with the same texture will be a little bit easier for the gpu to handle than the same two surfaces with different textures etc. If I'm correct, Bellisseria houses are based on the same principle as at Horizons, each resident can choose which of a set of house designs they want and which of a set of texturring options they want for it. That means areas where many residents tend to go for the same house model and texture set will be less laggy than areas where there is a wider variety of them.

---

What the residents have rezzed is of course very important and we have to keep in mind that even hidden objects, such as the ones inside the houses, will affect performance. We also have to keep in mind that the render cost of commercial objects can vary wildly depending on the creator's technical skills and care/lack of care. A house crammed full of high lag furnishing will seriously reduce the performance for anybody standing outside it while one more sparsely furnished with lower lag items, perhaps even reusing a few here and there, will hardly make any difference at all.

---

I'm not sure how evenly the vegetation is distributed in Bellisseria but that may well be a significant factor for the differences I've seen. The trees in particular are huge lag monsters. Adding or removing even just a single one of them from the scene will cause an easily measurable, maybe even noticeable, change in fps.

---

Then there's the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. You can add more load to the system up to a certain point with hardly any drop in performance at all. But the moment you reach that point, even the tiniest load increase will have a profound effect. As inefficient as it is, the base build at Bellisseria probably isn't heavy enough to cause any problems in itself for any but the weakest computers in SL. But it is still very heavy and may well be enough to bring many computers very close to some of those "breaking points".

---

This is my theory anyway but it is only a theory so if anybody has a better explanation, please let us know.

Edited July 24, 2020 by ChinRey
Typos

[Cinos Field]

The problem is your neighbours. Belli is already full of detail, so a person or two using badly optimized furniture can slow even gaming PCs to an absolute crawl.
 

You could figure out who and kindly ask them to cut down on it, but since this is SL, a more likely solution is switching homes.

[Dafadilia Wayfarer]

In the little over a year I've lived in Bellisseria, I've only had one home where I had a bit of lag. Sadly it was in my Victorian home. All the rest have been lag free. Even the surrounding areas when I've gone boating, bike riding, roller skating, horse back riding, or exploring on foot. 

I'm sorry you're having lag issues. I hope you can figure out what is causing you to lag so you can enjoy Belli and your home. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Yes but scripts don't affect frame rate and they were extremely careless when it came to limiting the render load.

See the screenshot I posted above.

That's one from a different spot in Bellisseria, but it's actually lower than what I got at the very spot the OP took her video, and about typical for what I get in Belleseriia.

 

Here's a fresh screenshot, right outside the home the video was made in, with my graphics settings, and still a respectable FPS:

The problem... while somewhere... is NOT with Bellesseria.

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[ChinRey]

39 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Here's a fresh screenshot, right outside the home the video was made in, with my graphics settings, and still a respectable FPS:

Ummm... 49.8 fps with 64 m draw distance in what appears to be a fairly small window and with practically the entire scene hidden behind low render cost popups? I don't know what kind of hardware you have of course, nor exactly what your graphics settings are. But even with my rather old and not-at-all-a-gamer computer I would consider that bad, really bad.

[Pussycat Catnap]

4 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Ummm... 49.8 fps with 64 m draw distance in what appears to be a fairly small window and with practically the entire scene hidden behind low render cost popups? I don't know what kind of hardware you have of course, nor exactly what your graphics settings are. But even with my rather old and not-at-all-a-gamer computer I would consider that bad, really bad.

That's a partial screenshot, not the whole screen - my goal here was to show the performance window and my graphics settings, not the scene around me because I figure anyone is smart enough to realize a cropped image with key details for what it is... relevant details only.

You can always take your own butt over there and see what you get in that spot...

Edited July 24, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Orwar]

3 hours ago, NeonSteamPunk said:

The house looks great, but to ride a bike, car or build things are almost impossible, I am hoping to wait it out and see if it gets better but wow, after all that time I waited to even claim land there now I wish I stayed renting on a free account.

   First things first - why are you wearing a Catwa HUD and a Vista HUD? 

   Make a habit of just equipping the necessary body / head HUDs whilst putting together your outfit, then taking them off; they contain a ton of texture memory that reduces your framerate, plus the scripts. Setting up an FS AO is easy as cake. 

   That said, yes, Belli is laggy. The houses have a rather high draw weight for their size, and then people put a ton of junk on their lands that just add to it. Some regions are better than others, but it's entirely up to chance where you end up and what neighbours you get. If you end up next to someone who've decked out their entire place with Apple Fall junk, just cam on over and start derendering.

 

[Lucia Nightfire]

5 hours ago, NeonSteamPunk said:

My draw distance is only 64 , btw is not a lot of fun either, the norm I have it set to 512, with no problems.

The draw distance you showed at the beginning of the video is definitely NOT 64m. You can see how large it is on the world map. Looks 512m at least.

Normally set at 512m isn't recommended except in unbordered regions or a cluster of regions with few prims rezzed each.

The more regions and objects you render with a larger draw distance, the more impacted your FPS will be.

In your video, your FPS is high when you travel to unbordered regions, but once you return to Bellesaria and start rendering multiple regions with objects in each, your 512m draw distance causes your FPS to tank.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Lucia Nightfire

[ChinRey]

31 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

That's a partial screenshot, not the whole screen

Ok, that explains it.

And re-reading OP's post I notice she too was using 64 m draw distance. (Edit: Lucia posted almost exactly at the same time as me so I didn't get to see her reply.)

But even so, when the problem the OP has only occurs in Bellisseria and not elswhere on the grid, it is a problem with Bellisseria and if you search through older posts here, you'll see she's by no means the first one to report similar problems.

So my first post was not in any way a constructed scenario, it was an attempt to explain a known situation. The Belliseria build performs very badly both when it comes to the object performance metric LL has provided and does violate a lot of the generally accepted (and well explained) principles for performant game assets. That's only theory of course but when the map does seem to fit the terrain, it is tempting to suggest that there is some sort of connection between them. Still, the theory doesn't seem to fully explain the inconsistency in the performance so there probably is soemthing more to it and as I've already said, if others have better explanations, let's hear them.

Edited July 24, 2020 by ChinRey

[ChinRey]

7 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

In your video, your FPS is high when you travel to unbordered regions, but once you return to Bellesaria and start rendering multiple regions with objects in each, your 512m draw distance causes your FPS to tank.

That's a good point but look at this:

and compare to this:

I'm not sure if I need to explain.

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

That's a good point but look at this:

and compare to this:

I'm not sure if I need to explain.

Just because you wish you could see everything at a far distance doesn't mean it doesn't come without a cost to performance.

[ChinRey]

Just now, Lucia Nightfire said:

Just because you wish you could see everything at a far distance doesn't mean it doesn't come without a cost to performance.

Of course but, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought one of the main points with Bellisseria was that it was supposed to look like a continuous landscape rather than a small patch of content in the middle of the emptiness.

But even more important, don't forget that most of the extra cost of rendering the scene in the first image is not inevitable, it's unneccessary overhead that could easily have been avoided with optimized content. Actually, I think I'll go as far as to claim that with proper optimization, the scene in my first picture could be rendered at a lower render cost and higher fps than what we can get from the scene in picture 2 as it is now. Right now I'm happy this chat has taken the turn it has. It's a brilliant opportunity to show what cotnent optimisation really is about.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Your highly-detailed mesh furniture as well as the furniture of your surrounding neighbors are for 90% responsible for low fps.

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Your highly-detailed mesh furniture as well as the furniture of your surrounding neighbors are for 90% responsible for low fps.

This is most likely true, but still, you can't just crank up draw distance and render a dozen regions full of mesh houses, mesh trees shrubs, flowers, roads without an impact on FPS either.

Not with the current render engine. 😉

There are simply unrealistic goals here.

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

This is most likely true, but still, you can't just crank up draw distance and render a dozen regions full of mesh houses, mesh trees shrubs, flowers, roads without an impact on FPS either.

Not with the current render engine. 😉

There are simply unrealistic goals here.

Is that a challenge?

Does anybody know of somewhere I can borrow a square of 16 sims for a week or two?

Edit, since I'm not sure what Solar's reaction meant: I was joking of course since nobody's going to shell out a couple of grands in tier for this. Lucia is wrong there though (although I certainly agree with her that some serious update to the render engine would help a lot too) and if it turns out somebody's actually mad/rich enough to cover the tier, I'm definitely in. Only, it would have to stay up for more than two weeks so people get the chance to see it.

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by ChinRey

[Fritigern Gothly]

Nobody mentioned the shadows Shadows is what kills performance. 

[ChinRey]

3 minutes ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

Nobody mentioned the shadows Shadows is what kills performance. 

Yes but look at the specs the OP gave for her computer. What's the point in having a feature like that at all if not even a box like that can handle it safely?

Advanced shaders don't actually have to add that much extra load if the scene is made to take advantage of them.

[Solar Legion]

6 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Yes but look at the specs the OP gave for her computer. What's the point in having a feature like that at all if not even a box like that can handle it safely?

Advanced shaders don't actually have to add that much extra load if the scene is made to take advantage of them.

Seen below are the "specs" the OP gave:

7 hours ago, NeonSteamPunk said:

I have a GTX 1060, 100mb line, 2019 gaming computer my SL works great in every private region, and not bad in most mainland.

No specs at all outside of the GPU, their paid for network speed (getting it or not) and an attempt to date their computer like it was a car.

No OS, no RAM, nothing whatsoever beyond that.

[Maitimo]

I've had six or seven Belli homes and none of them have been as bad as the OP describes. Now, my laptop is not as good as the OP's computer (based on the specs provided),   nvidea gtx1050, 8mb RAM, average net speed 25mb/s down, and in all of my previous Belli homes I've averaged around 40fps or better at ground level in Med-High settings with my usual default draw distance of 128m. I have advanced lighting on and shadows off. For comparison, my ground-level mainland home at the same settings gets me around 55-60fps at ground level. Better, but not by orders-of-magnitude.

So I took a visit to this particular region, and there is definitely something going on here because on arrival on the road outside the OP's home, my fps dropped to and remained at 22.  Walked up and down a bit and it was interesting to see that when I turned around and walked south, my fps was back up to 45 when I got halfway down the region. Turned around to face north and it immediately dropped to 26 and I heard my fan suddenly go into overdrive. Walked up to the north end of the road at the bend, the fan went quiet and it was back up to 40+fps again.

I paused at the entrance of each house along that road, and my fps was at it's lowest when standing right outside the OP's house and facing across the street to the east. Now, THAT house is very nicely decorated with a LOT of detail, so that neighbour might be the one to blame. However, by "lowest" I'm talking about low-20s fps, certainly nowhere near the OP's 4.4fps. 

Conclusion - there is something about that particular location that causes a drop in fps compared to other locations in Belliseria, even with other locations in the same region. But there is something else going on that's particular to the OP's hardware setup that's making their system more susceptible to it than it should be.

For reference, my specs are below, in case anyone spots anything that might be significant:

Quote

Firestorm 6.3.9 (58205) May 27 2020 01:20:51 (64bit) (Firestorm-Releasex64) with Havok support
Release Notes

You are at 55.3, 139.3, 34.4 in Gridley Crossroads located at sim10167.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.49.33:13011)
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Gridley Crossroads/55/139/34
(global coordinates 265,271.0, 245,131.0, 34.4)
Second Life Server 2020-07-10T18:46:54.544832
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7300HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz (2496 MHz)
Memory: 8078 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 19041.388)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 1050/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 26.21.14.3198
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 431.98

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.54.1 OpenSSL/1.0.2l zlib/1.2.8 nghttp2/1.25.0
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.7
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.00.08
Dullahan: 1.1.1320 / CEF: 3.3626.1895.g7001d56 / Chromium: 72.0.3626.121
LibVLC Version: 2.2.8
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: Firestorm (Grey)
Window size: 1829x1031 px
Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi)
Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 128 m
Bandwidth: 550 kbit/s
LOD factor: 2
Render quality: Medium-High (4/7)
Advanced Lighting Model: Yes
Texture memory: 2048 MB (1)
VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2017-9-16T21:51:51 
Built with MSVC version 1800
Packets Lost: 41/74,490 (0.1%)
July 24 2020 16:27:31 SLT