The Anti-Valentine's Day Thread

[Simo Vodopan]

5 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

I lost mine on November 9th 2016.

Aside the dates, I suppose, that hurts equally bad.

That's one way of looking at it indeed, lost my grandmother sometime before Halloween and Halloween was, probably the only holiday I half-way gave a damn about? But now that kinda screwed it. In general, the month of October is a very grim one for me indeed.

I always like to say to people to let not bad things spoil what you enjoy but at times it's difficult doing just that.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Simo Vodopan

[Kweopi]

4 hours ago, Zzevir said:

Valentines day is a toxic feminine celebration. Where the birds wants  a 💩 load of  stuff flowers, bonbon, candle lit dinner all this on the blokes card off course. For an unenthusiastic hand job. 

 

easy.do it yourself and keep the money. It is safer that way and it keeps your ego unchanged.for your money you have the right to have fun alone.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I'm sorry, @Scylla Rhiadra, you said in the OP that the thread was intended for people who don't like V Day to vent, and I've kind of gone against the spirit of it. I don't love it myself, for all the obvious reasons, but the thread just kind of got me thinking. But I should have stuck to what it was intended for.

Well, you know what a stickler I am for staying on topic, right? 😉

I don't think I ever intended this thread to become a sort of jeremiad against Valentine's Day -- at least as an ideal or a concept. As I said in the OP, if it works for you, if it functions as surely it putatively should -- as an occasion for the expression of a generous love, to whomever one chooses to give that -- then, I think that's marvelous.

The two things that I most dislike about it aren't really connected with that core meaning. They are, on the one hand, the relentless social pressure to conform to a very singular and reductive vision of what romantic love means, and the massive and connected commercialization of the occasion.

Those who are able to insulate their own celebration of the occasion, in whatever form it takes, from those two pressures, have a good thing going. I wish that we might all be free to celebrate a Valentine's Day that was intimate, and personally meaningful in that way.

So, keep thinking about it, by all means!

Edited February 12, 2020 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

It is in Hull.

 

4 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

Hull has scarred me for life. 

So, it's not a coincidence that one of my favourite modern poets, Philip Larkin, lived in Hull (he was a university librarian there), and is also one of the most unromantic poets I know?

(Yes, yes, I know. Larkin was grumpy reactionary sexist. He still wrote beautiful poetry.)

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't think most people even know what it's about...it's lost it's original meaning.  But, Saint Valentine is a Catholic saint and the stories "vary" upon search.

To me, it's kind of like Halloween which was originally All Hallow's Eve and Easter and even Christmas have lost a lot of their meaning and are more secular and sweets orientated and/or feast orientated.  

But, I like occasional sweets and feasts and am glad we have them.

There are worst things to worry about in this world everyone...don't sweat the small stuff.  

Well, as I understand it (and any medievalists in the crowd should feel free to wade in and correct me if I'm wrong), St. Valentine's original association with "love" began in the middle ages, and was related to Chivalric or Courtly Love.

That's a rather different thing than you'll see if you search "Valentine" on the MP with "Adult" ratings selected. Courtly love is, it is important to note, nonsexual. It's an attempt to blend sacred and profane notions of love, using a kind of neoPlatonic model. A knight "loves" a courtly woman (it's always a "knight," and the women are always, of course, high-born) in a manner that represents a sort of adoration of an ideal. The model, of course, is Divine Love. So, sorry, sexy lingerie is right out.

That's a model that obviously doesn't have too much relevance today. Which is fine: courtly love is kind of stupid, really. I suspect that the secularization of the holiday probably started to occur sometime in the Renaissance, and it's probably always been at least a little problematic. But I do think that our modern age has really adulterated it.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Amina Sopwith]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, it's not a coincidence that one of my favourite modern poets, Philip Larkin, lived in Hull (he was a university librarian there), and is also one of the most unromantic poets I know?

(Yes, yes, I know. Larkin was grumpy reactionary sexist. He still wrote beautiful poetry.)

No, not a coincidence. And I love Larkin too. How could anyone not love a poet who penned the line, "Books are a load of crap" and turned down the opportunity to be Poet Laureate?

Though This Be the Verse became much less funny once I had my son.

He wasn't always in Hull. Legend has it that he is the one who scrawled "Why do I have to learn this s***??" in a copy of The Faerie Queene in the St John's College library at Oxford. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Amina Sopwith

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Though This Be the Verse became much less funny once I had my son.

I'm sure! I took his advice at the end of that poem., myself.

Here, then, in honour of Valentine's Day, and Hull . . .

Annus Mirabilis

Sexual intercourse began
In nineteen sixty-three
(which was rather late for me) -
Between the end of the "Chatterley" ban
And the Beatles' first LP.

Up to then there'd only been
A sort of bargaining,
A wrangle for the ring,
A shame that started at sixteen
And spread to everything.

Then all at once the quarrel sank:
Everyone felt the same,
And every life became
A brilliant breaking of the bank,
A quite unlosable game.

So life was never better than
In nineteen sixty-three
(Though just too late for me) -
Between the end of the "Chatterley" ban
And the Beatles' first LP.

 

(I think I actually prefer "High Windows," which runs somewhat on this theme, but this one seems more apposite.)

Edited February 12, 2020 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Amina Sopwith]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm sure! I took his advice at the end of that poem., myself.

Here, then, in honour of Valentine's Day, and Hull . . .

Annus Mirabilis

Sexual intercourse began
In nineteen sixty-three
(which was rather late for me) -
Between the end of the "Chatterley" ban
And the Beatles' first LP.

Up to then there'd only been
A sort of bargaining,
A wrangle for the ring,
A shame that started at sixteen
And spread to everything.

Then all at once the quarrel sank:
Everyone felt the same,
And every life became
A brilliant breaking of the bank,
A quite unlosable game.

So life was never better than
In nineteen sixty-three
(Though just too late for me) -
Between the end of the "Chatterley" ban
And the Beatles' first LP.

The Beatles' first LP was Please Please Me...

If I quote all the Larkin lines I love, I'll be here all night. If you haven't read his collected letters, do. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Amina Sopwith said:

The Beatles' first LP was Please Please Me...

If I quote all the Larkin lines I love, I'll be here all night. If you haven't read his collected letters, do. 

Well, it's funny. As I was writing how "unromantic" he was, I was thinking of the ambivalence of the conclusion of "An Arundel Tomb."

Time has transfigured them into  
Untruth. The stone fidelity
They hardly meant has come to be  
Their final blazon, and to prove  
Our almost-instinct almost true:  
What will survive of us is love.

 

And maybe also of the end of "The Whitsun Weddings."

He had his moments, the sh*tty old sod.

[Beth Macbain]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Courtly Love

I was so confused for a minute...

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I was so confused for a minute...

I don't have a whole lot of time for Courtly Love ("Please, for God's sake, stop the speechifying and just KISS ME already!")

Her, on the other hand . . .

[Amina Sopwith]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, it's funny. As I was writing how "unromantic" he was, I was thinking of the ambivalence of the conclusion of "An Arundel Tomb."

Time has transfigured them into  
Untruth. The stone fidelity
They hardly meant has come to be  
Their final blazon, and to prove  
Our almost-instinct almost true:  
What will survive of us is love.

 

And maybe also of the end of "The Whitsun Weddings."

He had his moments, the sh*tty old sod.

He had a funny blend of being unpretentious and apparently accessible and yet also somewhat superior ("cut price crowds" and the like). He certainly wasn't a romantic but he was very human. And far less of a pretentious prat than Ted sodding Hughes. 

Some lines, like The Whitsun Weddings and those lines from An Arundel Tomb, you can't really be sure how serious or sarcastic he is. I'm quite sure it's intentional and that he himself wasn't entirely sure how he felt about it. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:

He had a funny blend of being unpretentious and apparently accessible and yet also somewhat superior ("cut price crowds" and the like). He certainly wasn't a romantic but he was very human. And far less of a pretentious prat than Ted sodding Hughes. 

Some lines, like The Whitsun Weddings and those lines from An Arundel Tomb, you can't really be sure how serious or sarcastic he is. I'm quite sure it's intentional and that he himself wasn't entirely sure how he felt about it. 

Yeah, well put. He was a master of not quite  or almost saying something -- kinda like trees coming into leaf, really.

And yes, can't stand Hughes' poetry, for reasons that have nothing to do with Sylvia Plath. (Although I don't much like him for that reason also.)

[Marigold Devin]

3 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Maybe.

But, I'm single for six years and I buy my own Valentine's candy.  It's on sale every year so I buy some.  I will buy my own Easter candy, Halloween candy, etc...it's always buy one, get one free.

Plus, I think it can be about friendship too.  The "love" part of Valentine's Day was added later and not what the original meaning of it actually was.  It's commercialized.  

The Valentine's when we were little...well, I got my fair share and I shared too but there was some nervousness there...so I understand if anyone was hurt and/or left out.  That's sucks!

But, I'm single and don't feel left out at my age now.  I just buy my own Valentine's candy.    

 

 

The wonderful thing about Valentines/Easter/Christmas chocolate/candy, is that it generally is half price after the event(s), so we can eat twice as much - and this is where single people (and greedy not so single people!) win out.

[kali Wylder]

2 hours ago, TDD123 said:

I lost mine on November 9th 2016.

Aside the dates, I suppose, that hurts equally bad.

I lost mine just recently, December 29, 2019.  Bears no relation to Valentines Day but I still miss him.

As for Valentines Day, it sucks.  I rather think the guys in Chicago had the right idea, twas a good day to blow a few brains out.

I buy my own candy and some for my kid too.

Edited February 12, 2020 by kali Wylder
more to say

[Marigold Devin]

3 hours ago, LyricalBookworm said:

I'm a huge romantic at heart. I'm mushy, affectionate and super cheesy. My hubby could vouch for all this with nodding and lots of eye rolls. Also, my relationship is very happy and loving. I'm very blessed.

All that being said, I don't ever need a date to remind me that I love the person I'm with and I certainly never need a gift from my hubby to know he loves me without question. 

It is a rather painful day for me although it holds so many sweet memories. My dad always got me the sweetest cards on Valentine's Day when I was a little girl. I would make one for him too! It was only him and me so it was a Dad/Daughter thing. Never a romantic thing. I just light a candle for my Dad on the fourteenth now to remember him. 

 

I think that is so lovely, that you remember your Dad in a special way on Valentine's Day.

 

[Marigold Devin]

2 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I'm sorry, @Scylla Rhiadra, you said in the OP that the thread was intended for people who don't like V Day to vent, and I've kind of gone against the spirit of it. I don't love it myself, for all the obvious reasons, but the thread just kind of got me thinking. But I should have stuck to what it was intended for.

As an uber nosy bird, I had a poke round that thread on Mumsnet, and laughed my bum off - eating fat balls. And you get ten team points for the use of the word tw*tbadger (I'd never heard that before).  

[Amina Sopwith]

29 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, well put. He was a master of not quite  or almost saying something -- kinda like trees coming into leaf, really.

And yes, can't stand Hughes' poetry, for reasons that have nothing to do with Sylvia Plath. (Although I don't much like him for that reason also.)

She was far more talented than he was and I wonder if he knew it on some level. It's a pity she wasn't born later, not just because it meant she wouldn't have married him. It's always hard for women to balance a desire for motherhood and domesticity with a desire for independence and the other kind of self-actualisation. But it's certainly easier now than it was then, and obviously mental health care is better now too. 

"Terrifying are the attent sleek thrushes on the lawn"...oh piss off, Ted. It's lucky you never lived down my area in saaarf London when I was in my first job. If thrushes on a lawn scared you, you'd have sh*t yourself down there. Wendy Cope will have you.

(You will LOVE that link. In case anyone's not familiar with the original it's parodying, here it is... though this is actually a somewhat maverick take on it. It's usually done by a plump, bearded Victorian policeman whose lot is not an 'eppy one...If you want to get straight to it, skip forward to 2.40.)

Edited February 12, 2020 by Amina Sopwith

[Amina Sopwith]

1 minute ago, Marigold Devin said:

As an uber nosy bird, I had a poke round that thread on Mumsnet, and laughed my bum off - eating fat balls. And you get ten team points for the use of the word tw*tbadger (I'd never heard that before).  

I'm so glad you liked it. I only really made that gag to share that thread, it's a classic. Mumsnet is the most bonkers place I've ever come across in my life, but it's got a draw I can't deny. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Sweethearts return... kind of.

They're gross anyway. (Dark) chocolate or GTFO. 

We do -- or did, anyway -- have Sweethearts in Canada, but we also have these. They're British, I think -- and probably my favourite cheap candy. Do you have them in the States?

[Marigold Devin]

53 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

So, it's not a coincidence that one of my favourite modern poets, Philip Larkin, lived in Hull (he was a university librarian there), and is also one of the most unromantic poets I know?

(Yes, yes, I know. Larkin was grumpy reactionary sexist. He still wrote beautiful poetry.)

Yes! Love the one that starts "They f*ck you up your mum and dad, they may not mean to, but they do, they (has to go to internet for next bit ... 

[Selene Gregoire]

7 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

the most bonkers place

I've always loved the phrase "stark raving bonkers". It covers everything offensive without being offensive. Brits are damned good at it.

[Amina Sopwith]

2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I've always loved the phrase "stark raving bonkers". It covers everything offensive without being offensive. Brits are damned good at it.

See also "mad as a box of frogs".

[Marigold Devin]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

We do -- or did, anyway -- have Sweethearts in Canada, but we also have these. They're British, I think -- and probably my favourite cheap candy. Do you have them in the States?

Swizzels Matlow are definitely a UK company, and these are fabulous.  As the times have rolled on, the words on Love Hearts have altered, so where it used to say "Be Mine" or "Kiss Me" we now have things like "Text Me" and "Skype Me", and you can even buy personalised packs of Love Hearts, which people do for wedding favours.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

15 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Wendy Cope will have you.

OMG! 😃