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ChinRey

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55 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

It was humiliating and it was devastating.

That's a very sad experience.

I must have been lucky regarding this issue in that I only remember that everyone was instructed to bring cards to everyone else.

At a young age I think sharing and cooperation should be emphasized, and at a later time when a child has a firmer identity and self-esteem is anchored then some competitiveness could be introduced.

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2 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Suit yourself.

When I was, couldn't've been more than 5, may have been younger, I very carefully went through the box of wee cards I'd very carefully selected from the shop and decided on one for each member of my class, trying to choose one I thought they'd like. I was a serious child and took the whole thing seriously. It mattered to me that they had a card they'd liked, whether they were funny or flowery or loud or quiet.

On the day itself a few classmates went racing round the bags, dropping one in each. Others had also written names on theirs, they took longer. I was slow and I had cards for everyone, but I managed alright.

When we were given leave to get our bags, everyone gleefully dumped theirs on the floor. They all had lots. It was a big class.

I found a small handful inside my bag. One from our neighbour Steven. A couple more with my name on the envelope. A few more from the kids who gave one to everyone randomly.

I was five years old and I knew without any shadow of a doubt what I was already starting to figure out.

It was humiliating and it was devastating.

I always had my students make their cards in class, and they had to write something inside to the recipient, telling some behavior they appreciated about them -- and it could not be about appearance. They had to do some real thinking to come up with something. I remember one year I was worried about how anyone could come up with something about one very squirrely annoying kid. Then someone thought of the perfect thing to say: " You draw good monsters!"  

Anyway, when they finally got to read their cards, it was tremendously affirming reading the positive things people in the class had noticed about them.

I loved teaching. 

Edited by Pamela Galli
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3 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Suit yourself.

When I was, couldn't've been more than 5, may have been younger, I very carefully went through the box of wee cards I'd very carefully selected from the shop and decided on one for each member of my class, trying to choose one I thought they'd like. I was a serious child and took the whole thing seriously. It mattered to me that they had a card they'd liked, whether they were funny or flowery or loud or quiet.

On the day itself a few classmates went racing round the bags, dropping one in each. Others had also written names on theirs, they took longer. I was slow and I had cards for everyone, but I managed alright.

When we were given leave to get our bags, everyone gleefully dumped theirs on the floor. They all had lots. It was a big class.

I'm a bit confused, are you saying that all their random spamming of cards (or not) made the whole sentiment utterly valueless because that's how I read it?

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2 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

I always had my students make their cards in class, and they had to write something inside to the recipient, telling some behavior they appreciated about them -- and it could not be about appearance. They had to do some real thinking to come up with something. I remember one year I was worried about how anyone could come up with something about one very squirrely annoying kid. Then someone thought of the perfect thing to say: " You draw good monsters!"  

Anyway, when they finally got to read their cards, it was tremendously affirming reading the positive things people in the class had noticed about them.

I loved teaching. 

This.

So. Much. This.

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6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Couldn't agree more...

Probably about different things though. I still can't understand why so many people appear to be falling to celebrate our even understand the traditional Valentine's Day activities.

Just Google, it's out there! :)

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9 hours ago, Bradford Mint said:

I'm a bit confused, are you saying that all their random spamming of cards (or not) made the whole sentiment utterly valueless because that's how I read it?

Not at all. That's YOUR line.

Why are you reading your sentiment into my words?

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13 hours ago, ChinRey said:

😮 😮 😮!!!

I'm not even sure if I should feel flattered or offended.

Offended that my mind played that trick on me, but flattered that it was intended for you - which it was :D

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52 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Not at all. That's YOUR line.

Why are you reading your sentiment into my words?

I said that I was confused and clearly sought clarity about what your sentiment was.

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26 minutes ago, Bradford Mint said:

I said that I was confused and clearly sought clarity about what your sentiment was.

My sentiment was that it was humiliating and devastating to know with complete certainty - at the very young age of five - that I was being rejected by my classmates.

I was far too young to have anything remotely like the coping strategies needed to deal with it effectively. I didn't know how to talk about it with anyone. I was a tiny, lost, hurting child.

When schools and teachers do their best to avoid putting a child in that position, it gives the child a chance to grow up a bit more normally. I didn't have that. I got stuck in a crippling shyness which became self-perpetuating. Because I was bullied and isolated early, I didn't develop the social skills needed to avoid being a target for further bullying and isolation.

Thank heavens we've learned some things over the years. If it spares one tiny child from going through that kind of hell, it's worth it.

In other words, your position isn't just wrong. It is cruel.

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16 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Suit yourself.

When I was, couldn't've been more than 5, may have been younger, I very carefully went through the box of wee cards I'd very carefully selected from the shop and decided on one for each member of my class, trying to choose one I thought they'd like. I was a serious child and took the whole thing seriously. It mattered to me that they had a card they'd liked, whether they were funny or flowery or loud or quiet.

On the day itself a few classmates went racing round the bags, dropping one in each. Others had also written names on theirs, they took longer. I was slow and I had cards for everyone, but I managed alright.

When we were given leave to get our bags, everyone gleefully dumped theirs on the floor. They all had lots. It was a big class.

I found a small handful inside my bag. One from our neighbour Steven. A couple more with my name on the envelope. A few more from the kids who gave one to everyone randomly.

I was five years old and I knew without any shadow of a doubt what I was already starting to figure out.

It was humiliating and it was devastating.

A lot of us had similar experiences but perhaps suppressed the memory. It was a first taste of “popularity” vs. “rejection”. 

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5 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

In other words, your position isn't just wrong. It is cruel.

My position is merely the traditional sentiment of Valentine's Day, i.e. a message or gift, typically anonymously to a love (or fancy) interest.

It is not a "happy day" to grant to all you meet, nor is it a public holiday, nor as you claim cruel.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Bradford Mint said:

My position is merely the traditional sentiment of Valentine's Day, i.e. a message or gift, typically anonymously to a love (or fancy) interest.

It is not a "happy day" to grant to all you meet, nor is it a public holiday, nor as you claim cruel.

 

 

 

tenor.gif

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1 hour ago, Bradford Mint said:

My position is merely the traditional sentiment of Valentine's Day, i.e. a message or gift, typically anonymously to a love (or fancy) interest.

It is not a "happy day" to grant to all you meet, nor is it a public holiday, nor as you claim cruel.

Quote

E.g. school sports days where "everyone is a winner", to avoid children being upset at losing. At some point in their life, these snowflakes will discover that there are others who are better at something than they are and no, they're not entitled to the same benefits.

Does this mean you've abandoned this secondary position then?

Look back at my first reply to you. It's what I quoted.

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3 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Does this mean you've abandoned this secondary position then?

Look back at my first reply to you. It's what I quoted.

Anyone is welcome to play a victim, life remains competitive regardless 

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1 hour ago, Bradford Mint said:
5 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Does this mean you've abandoned this secondary position then?

Anyone is welcome to play a victim, life remains competitive regardless 

A parents job is to both give and withhold support depending on what the child needs as they progress through life changes, going from more to less dependency as they mature. When a child doesn't receive appropriate support then self-esteem is damaged, and it's not easy to get that back later in life.
More than spoiling a child, it is not being there for a child and supporting them that causes the development of low self-esteem and a tendency to fail later in life.

Bitsy is saying there was a time in her life when she needed support and didn't get it, and I agree -- six years old is too young to cope with excessive ostracization by peers, especially when the start of school makes this an especially vulnerable time due to massive changes for the child.
Really, you owe Bitsy and apology. She shared her past pain to bring light to the issue and in your total insensitivity you threw it back in her face, and now you're accusing her of playing a victim.  I just hope you don't have children.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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7 hours ago, Bradford Mint said:
12 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

In other words, your position isn't just wrong. It is cruel.

My position is merely the traditional sentiment of Valentine's Day, i.e. a message or gift, typically anonymously to a love (or fancy) interest.

It is not a "happy day" to grant to all you meet, nor is it a public holiday, nor as you claim cruel.

You are insisting that everyone else follow your interpretation of what a holiday should be just because you've experienced it in a certain way or believe the majority do, and you are backing up your desires with a distorted definition of "tradition". As has been pointed out to you, there is no "traditional way for all time", as many countries celebrate friendship day, and many teachers adjust the sentiment to fit what would best benefit a child. It's fine if you wish to celebrate it in the way you want, but quit telling others how others should celebrate it.

 All holidays, traditions, and religions morph over time, and studying the history of Valentine's Day or noticing how others in the present day celebrate it is a perfect example of how traditions change through the ages.

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On 2/15/2019 at 9:09 AM, Zeta Vandyke said:

Its in the spirit of the time we live in. I mean, Christmas originally is not about Santa Clause and inviting people over and stuff yourself with food next to a tree with lights and wishing everyone a merry Christmas. But that is how we celebrate it today anyway. Valentine might be originally a Christian saint remembrance, but now we do it as we do it.

I don't care for either, or any holiday really, not even birthdays. But that's me. If people like wishing each other stuff because of a certain date on the calendar, and it makes them feel happy, good for hem.

No Christmas has nothing to do with Santa Claus or even Jesus it was another pagan festival misappropriated by the christians to sell their creed to Pagans and whether your version of christmas was the celtic yule, the norse jul or the roman saturnalia prior to that it did very much revolve around stuffing yourself with greenery surrounding you. It is in fact the christian depiction of christmas as a more austere festival that is the oddity

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7 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

No Christmas has nothing to do with Santa Claus or even Jesus

Correction: The original 'festival' HAD nothing to with Santa Claus or even Jesus, but it does now. That's why it's now called Christmas.

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I have never understood, and will never understand why anyone feels they have some sort of right, maybe obligation (not certain how to word that part, pardon my terrible verbiage) to determine when another person is or is not celebrating or acknowledging a holiday "properly". This becomes doubly more confusing when the judgmental party doesn't even recognize said holiday or celebration his or her self. Is this something those people always do, like, for every type of holiday and/or celebration, or is it only select ones? I mean, there are a LOT of holidays, the world over, and celebrations, that are not shared by  everyone, or even the masses. Are there really people that think they know best how to celebrate said holidays...really?

Hubby and I don't celebrate Valentine's day either, at least, not in the most traditional or common sense(s). We celebrate our life, our love, what we have, how we got where we are, etc... every single day (yeah, we're THOSE people, lmao). We don't do the gifts, flowers, cards, chocolates, special dates, etc...etc.... it's just not us. But I would never tell another person, or a whole bunch of them, that the method(s) they choose to celebrate is somehow invalidating the day, or lessening it for other people, let alone myself. It's their way, it's their day, they are literally harming absolutely no one and not a thing they do, or don't do, on that day, has even the most remote effect on me and mine, well, really, on me.  So..what gives? Where does this come from? I mean if you want to break it down to the whole "that's not how this holiday began" part, then you need to do that for literally every celebration, every holiday, and are you really prepared to be THAT judgmental, especially on things that have zero effect on you? I mean if I wanted to go all out for Valentine's day and give gifts to all that are special in my life...why shouldn't I? How am I invalidating your interpretation of a holiday's origin (as defined by you, or those before you) in showering those for whom I have some level of affection? I know that no one will actually answer that, or any questions remotely like it, but I would love if someone actually could. Especially if they're willing to see my questions as the curiosity on which they're based. 

Ftr, my family also celebrates other holidays in rather interesting ways too, are you going to follow us around and point out how wrong we're doing that as well? Come on now, you cannot be so wrapped up in your own world that others choosing to celebrate any day be it a holiday, or simply the third Tuesday in June, in any way they wish, is somehow harming the origin of that day. That's just....well, frankly, that's silly, and doesn't speak highly of anyone making those judgments, really. Not that I would expect anyone to care what I think of their judgments, I'm certain they don't...more power to them for it, I suppose. But, y'all sound silly as heck with these "that's not how you celebrate Valentine's day" posts, and I imagine someone making that kind of judgment with this really stern, probably almost constipated look on their face, eyebrows firm in an "I'm angry with you" pose..even more so when typing them out......and then I laugh until I can't breathe...you have no idea how silly you look in my head doing that, add in a few finger wags, a hand on a hip...oh my, yeah you're way sillier than people showing others some level of affection for which you have absolutely no approval. 

Should go without saying, but, sadly, it always needs to be said...you's and whatnot, are general :) 

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11 hours ago, Bradford Mint said:

Anyone is welcome to play a victim, life remains competitive regardless 

You've really rather missed the entire point of what I was saying, Bradford. If that was a competition, you'd have won it by miles.

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