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Gopi Passiflora

What are some of the disadvantages of living in a free society?

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not sure why you think the attitudes of Lincoln proves some point of yours.

Here are the women who started the 13th Amendment calling for the end of slavery:

 

National League.jpg

So did guns and bullets defeat the axis in WW2 or protest and hashtags? 

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3 hours ago, iamyourneighbour said:

So did guns and bullets defeat the axis in WW2 or protest and hashtags? 

Yes, wars are won by superior firepower, not superior pride. 

Anyone believing that "national pride" motivates actual fighting in any war has fallen for the mass hysteria of patriotic propaganda -- which is easy to do, with whole libraries of history books promoting such grand embellishment of fear and rage channeled to fighting zeal by military practice. The nobility of national identity is a useful fiction on the home front, but few soldiers permit themselves the delusion.

What victor attributes victory to the vanquished lesser pride? Does anyone -- even silly historians -- think the German military lost because they just weren't quite German enough?

"The last refuge of scoundrels," patriotism is a readily cultivated "pride" useful to the state -- and to those eager to subvert it under cover of flag. But it's only one special case; all pride in identity rather than in achievement is a sign of sickness, either response to historical pathologies (e.g., Black Pride, Gay Pride) or to promote new ones (e.g., Steve King, the Klan).

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41 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

all pride in identity rather than in achievement is a sign of sickness, either response to historical pathologies (e.g., Black Pride, Gay Pride)

Feminist pride is a sickness?

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3 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Feminist pride is a sickness?

A sign of historical sickness, absolutely, same as my examples of Gay Pride and Black Pride. In a healthy world, there would be no reason to be "proud" of any identity, only of achievement.

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2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

A sign of historical sickness, absolutely, same as my examples of Gay Pride and Black Pride. In a healthy world, there would be no reason to be "proud" of any identity, only of achievement.

Don't you think this (condensed) statement is highly offensive...

49 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

all pride in identity rather than in achievement is a sign of sickness,

Being proud is a way for those in a minority to throw off the chains of their oppressors. You might think Gay Pride or Female Pride is a sickness, but it is through this pride that these marginalised groups find each other, find a common voice, and rise above the oppression of the patriarchy.

It's not a sickness Qie.

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No, I think I was pretty clear, it's a sign of and a reaction to historical sickness. If it were not for that historical oppression, such pride would itself be offensive -- and in an ideal world, it will become obsolete as the memory of oppression fades. If the pride persists beyond that point, it will be a sickness in and of itself.

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7 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Sure. And it's fine to write, read and dream about it but what is the purpose of aspiring to an unattainable goal? Glutton for punishment? No, thank you.

Ok, we’ll just keep rushing headfirst towards dystopia.

 

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Edited by Love Zhaoying

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Based on the multitude of opinions in this thread, I still can't make up my mind on whether I want to live in a free society, or rather in an un-free one. 🙃

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman

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15 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Based on the multitude of opinions in this thread, I still can't make up my mind on whether I want to live in a free society, or rather in an un-free one. 🙃

Pssst: There's no free will, so in this timeline your decision is already made.

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2 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Don't you think this (condensed) statement is highly offensive...

Being proud is a way for those in a minority to throw off the chains of their oppressors. You might think Gay Pride or Female Pride is a sickness, but it is through this pride that these marginalised groups find each other, find a common voice, and rise above the oppression of the patriarchy.

It's not a sickness Qie.

..and if we are ever attacked, by aliens, we will finally have Human Pride. Just sayin’.

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On 1/8/2019 at 8:44 PM, Selene Gregoire said:

Sorry. I'll take democracy over libertarianism any day. Too much of a "good thing" is not a good thing. Anarchy is a prime example of what happens when large groups of people are allowed to police themselves. 

Libertarianism, is not the same as Anarchy, though to be sure there are Anarchists who use the Libertarian label. Libertarians hold to  two basic concepts, one you do not initiate the use of force against someone else, and two all persons have the same basic rights. This does not mean that there is no government to defend the rights of people, but it does mean that government  is limited to defending rights,   and  does not  try to improve peoples lives. That privilege is left to  individuals to build  their lives as they choose,  so long as they do not violate those two basic principles.

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Ok this is going to be spicy but the modern feminist you have in the west are just female incels. (Technically speaking they are mostly voluntarily celibate not involuntary)

Discuss ! 

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19 minutes ago, iamyourneighbour said:

Ok this is going to be ....

恶有恶报

101.gif.c5dd4c8fee633d077d44bc062c97c177.gif

Edited by Callum Meriman
Added the picture to go with the mandarin

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2 hours ago, iamyourneighbour said:

Ok this is going to be spicy but the modern feminist you have in the west are just female incels. (Technically speaking they are mostly voluntarily celibate not involuntary)

Discuss ! 

In other words, you just disproved your own argument. Next...

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14 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

You see though, in the brave new world so many people desperately wish for, national identity will become a thing of the past, we will all be "citizens of the world" and you'll feel no greater kinship to your neighbor down the street than to someone that lives on the other side of the world.

 

 

 

I think you're mistaking your categories.     I'm not sure I would use the term "kinship" to refer to anything other than actual familial relationships, but, in general, doesn't a great deal of what you have in common with "your neighbour down the street" have to do with the fact the two of you are neighbours, and therefore have particular interests in common -- local property taxes, road maintenance and so on -- and regularly see each other, if only to exchange greetings than it does with your neighbour's passport?

 

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5 hours ago, iamyourneighbour said:

Ok this is going to be spicy but the modern feminist you have in the west are just female incels. (Technically speaking they are mostly voluntarily celibate not involuntary)

Discuss ! 

No?

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16 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

you'll feel no greater kinship to your neighbor down the street than to someone that lives on the other side of the world.

Isn’t this the goal of most religions, love everyone equally? I think you’re confusing globalism with religiosity.

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8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Ok, we’ll just keep rushing headfirst towards dystopia.

 

 

Don't twist my words like that. I never said nor implied any such thing.

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19 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Don't twist my words like that. I never said nor implied any such thing.

Sorry! In my opinion, that’s where things tend to go if you don’t try to go the other way.

 

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4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sorry! In my opinion, that’s where things tend to go if you don’t try to go the other way.

 

There are more than two directions to go. 

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10 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

There are more than two directions to go. 

I forgot the third dimension! I would have lost in a space battle with Captain Kirk (or at 3D chess with Spock).

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24 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

In my opinion, that’s where things tend to go if you don’t try to go the other way.

Could this be the "utopia" of Yoga?

"The first peace, which is the most important,
is that which comes within the souls of people
when they realize their relationship, their oneness,
with the universe and all its powers,
and when they realize that at the center of the universe
dwells the Great Spirit,
and that this center is really everywhere,
it is within each of us."
~ Black Elk - Oglala Sioux ~

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No bait Selene, if you're referring to me.

I love comparative religion, ever since my first religion teacher in college introduced me to the ways of wild lesbian feminists and their witchy religion..lol.  Never could figure out why she was such a loyal Catholic, but I'm kind of starting to get even that now, at least a more mystical type of Catholicism.

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