Love Zhaoying Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Did we get a definition of “free society”? That will differ per where you live / your culture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Did we get a definition of “free society”? Certainly not! Because then we'd have to have a real discussion. Can't have that now can we. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 What is sad is that in this day and age, some would say that living in a free society isn't good OR desirable. Don't worry though, you'll get your wish soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: Certainly not! Because then we'd have to have a real discussion. Can't have that now can we. Ok then. If I use the Star Trek universe as a model, I don’t see any disadvantage. No money is needed. Wars only come from outside. Science is and has become the premier goal. Education for all. Explore the universe. Encounter Borg and die anyway. Even in a utopia, ya dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: What is sad is that in this day and age, some would say that living in a free society isn't good OR desirable. Don't worry though, you'll get your wish soon enough. Do you mean if Trump is re-elected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: Ok then. If I use the Star Trek universe as a model, I don’t see any disadvantage. No money is needed. Wars only come from outside. Science is and has become the premier goal. Education for all. Explore the universe. Encounter Borg and die anyway. Even in a utopia, ya dies. ST has never been a utopia. Not the OS, NG, Voyager, DS9 or any of the movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, Selene Gregoire said: ST has never been a utopia. Not the OS, NG, Voyager, DS9 or any of the movies. The reality for most Federation (Think, Earth, Vulcan) members is, it’s pretty darn close to utopia. No need to argue, it’s ok if we disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: The reality for most Federation (Think, Earth, Vulcan) members is, it’s pretty darn close to utopia. No need to argue, it’s ok if we disagree. Who is arguing? Utopia is a pipe dream where humanity as a whole is concerned. It will never exist because humans will never change to the degree necessary. There is no argument. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: The reality for most Federation (Think, Earth, Vulcan) members is, it’s pretty darn close to utopia. No need to argue, it’s ok if we disagree. And yet even in the "utopia" of Star Trek, they hadn't been able to eliminate or eradicate an individual's national pride, pride in their heritage, pride in their ancestry. Why is that? Edited January 16, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin added words 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamyourneighbour Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: And yet even in the "utopia" of Star Trek, they hadn't been able to eliminate or eradicate national pride, pride in their heritage, pride in their ancestry. Why is that? The ones without national pride gets swallowed up and face assimilation or elimination. In East Asia we have tribes with named in history books and no population left, they got wiped clean when they gave up their heritage. Remember WW2 was not won by treehuggers protesting but soldiers storming the beach. Edited January 16, 2019 by iamyourneighbour 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, iamyourneighbour said: The ones without national pride gets swallowed up and face assimilation or elimination. In East Asia we have tribes with named in history books and no population left, they got wiped clean when they gave up their heritage. You see though, in the brave new world so many people desperately wish for, national identity will become a thing of the past, we will all be "citizens of the world" and you'll feel no greater kinship to your neighbor down the street than to someone that lives on the other side of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamyourneighbour Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: You see though, in the brave new world so many people desperately wish for, national identity will become a thing of the past, we will all be "citizens of the world" and you'll feel no greater kinship to your neighbor down the street than to someone that lives on the other side of the world. Totally working in France right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: And yet even in the "utopia" of Star Trek, they hadn't been able to eliminate or eradicate an individual's national pride, pride in their heritage, pride in their ancestry. Why is that? Could it be because the characters in Star Trek didn't have ancestors like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: deleted Edited January 16, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin not worth it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I'm bowing out, nothing good will come of this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: It's obvious you are trying to goad me Luna. It's really not very attractive, and its not going to work. You may feel goaded, but I am not trying to goad you. I'm simply providing another side to your narrative...apparently you don't like the other side. Nobody is saying national pride or pride in one's heritage per se is bad, but if Hitler were my great great grandfather I certainly wouldn't want others to know it, or assert I should be able to feel proud in the fact he's a relative, or insist I should be able to paint a Nazi symbol on my car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamyourneighbour Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” - Abraham Lincoln (Damn Lincoln is more edgy than I thought) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Meriman Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 IBT... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 54 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: And yet even in the "utopia" of Star Trek, they hadn't been able to eliminate or eradicate an individual's national pride, pride in their heritage, pride in their ancestry. Why is that? What’s wrong with pride? Are you ashamed of your heritage and ancestry? How confusing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 59 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: Who is arguing? Utopia is a pipe dream where humanity as a whole is concerned. It will never exist because humans will never change to the degree necessary. There is no argument. But we can write about it, read about it, dream about it, aspire to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 28 minutes ago, iamyourneighbour said: Abraham Lincoln I'm not sure why you think the attitudes of Lincoln proves some point of yours. Here are the women who started the 13th Amendment calling for the end of slavery: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: But we can write about it, read about it, dream about it, aspire to it. Sure. And it's fine to write, read and dream about it but what is the purpose of aspiring to an unattainable goal? Glutton for punishment? No, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, iamyourneighbour said: So what do you do when a Muslim bakery refuses to make gay wedding cakes then 👀 In Sydney, Mascot they didn't but it only hit local news paper for one day. Don't think we've had such a case. It would be unlawful if they did refuse, though. The question has already been decided in our Supreme Court (Christian guest-house owners and a gay couple in a civil partnership). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVeryFirst Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: Could it be because the characters in Star Trek didn't have ancestors like this? The stars and bars never was the confederate flag, it was a battle flag. Thompson promoted it as the confederate flat in a news paper article but it in fact never was the confederate flag. And still is not the confederate flag, that misconception came about sometime in the 1940's or 1950’s, not sure of exactly when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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