Avatars and Race

[Ivy Mysterious]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I’m not racist. At all. Anyone who says I am is ignorant. 

I reported him, don't worry

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

Ignore him, Love.  He's just trying to get a rise out of folks.  His posts will probably be gone soon enough - and likely him for a while also.

I reported his post in case no one else did.

[ildiko Evergarden]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I reported his post in case no one else did.

oh I was just stepping over it and focusing on the conversation I had with one person. you know like a crowd of people and you just side step.. and move to another side.. But yea I'm report him.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Minx Kurosawa

[Love Zhaoying]

I just don’t understand why this thread is so active. Most people posting are supportive; and SL lets you be whoever you want to be.

[AyelaNewLife]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Minx, those blackface photos above...that's how black people were made fun of in the past mainly....caricatured as dumb and only there for entertainment purposes or to serve whites. So that's why it's disrespectful to imitate that, even in a virtual world.

And I'd argue that the walking stereotype "black man" avatar, ankle-length phallus, muscle-bound hoodrat caricature combined with a parody of "gangsta talk" and an obsession with "dem white hoes" is a modern-day blackface, with a sexual element. It's exceptionally widespread, and not only tolerated but actively celebrated by thousands of residents and hundreds of sims. Not saying that it's okay (it's god damn obnoxious), but it's definitely present.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, AyelaNewLife said:

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Minx, those blackface photos above...that's how black people were made fun of in the past mainly....caricatured as dumb and only there for entertainment purposes or to serve whites. So that's why it's disrespectful to imitate that, even in a virtual world.

And I'd argue that the walking stereotype "black man" avatar, ankle-length phallus, muscle-bound hoodrat caricature combined with a parody of "gangsta talk" and an obsession with "dem white hoes" is a modern-day blackface, with a sexual element. It's exceptionally widespread, and not only tolerated but actively celebrated by thousands of residents and hundreds of sims. Not saying that it's okay (it's god damn obnoxious), but it's definitely present.

Wow...maybe it's good I just stay on my building platform mainly...LOL

[Selene Gregoire]

16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I just don’t understand why this thread is so active. Most people posting are supportive; and SL lets you be whoever you want to be.

There was a bit of confusion but it appears to have been cleared up.

Until the next one comes along and we have to repeat it all over again. Par for the course eh?

[ildiko Evergarden]

15 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

And I'd argue that the walking stereotype "black man" avatar, ankle-length phallus, muscle-bound hoodrat caricature combined with a parody of "gangsta talk" and an obsession with "dem white hoes" is a modern-day blackface, with a sexual element. It's exceptionally widespread, and not only tolerated but actively celebrated by thousands of residents and hundreds of sims. Not saying that it's okay (it's god damn obnoxious), but it's definitely present.

umm I don't know what sims you go to. But I haven't seen any of that....in any of the sims I am at. Most sims I go to are roleplay fantasy sims.. so yea I don't mess with info hubs .. trolls hang out there.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Minx Kurosawa

[AyelaNewLife]

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Wow...maybe it's good I just stay on my building platform mainly...LOL

 

1 minute ago, Minx Kurosawa said:

umm I don't know what sims you go to. But I haven't seen any of that....in any of the sims I am at.

My flickr isn't exactly work safe

Something something #freethenipple

[ildiko Evergarden]

1 minute ago, AyelaNewLife said:

 

My flickr isn't exactly work safe

Something something #freethenipple

? 

[ellestones]

2 hours ago, IvyLarae said:

Firstly, and I'm not just targeting you, this is only one of several things I've seen here. Don't generalize him for the one thing I've told you all about him. He is one of the most opened minded people I've ever known. I've told him a great many things about me over the years that I've known him, many most would of ran from or balked at, yet he remained. You all are painting him as some ***** for one flawed way of thinking that I told you about, when that couldn't be farther from the truth.

we write what we do based on what information is presented. Most people, including me, will accept what is written at face value and comment on it accordingly.  Had you said in your OP, what you have written now, then I may not have included my comment about him as wrote. I am not tho into second guessing what somebody might mean in the first instance

based on what you now say then your friend is a doofus, if he equates your having a black avatar as blackface. Doofus in the sense that he probably needs to do a bit of research before imposing his view on you

blackface > parody > titilation

appropriation > self-advancement > entitlement

immersion > knowledge > understanding

knowing the differences can maybe help your friend. Immersion is the path we can all be on

 

[Aethelwine]

12 hours ago, Phorumities said:

That's why Obama got elected.

[Nalates Urriah]

RACISM …. In western democracies there is an enormous amount of propaganda and conditioning going on in an effort to weaponize the idea. Political parties are hiring psychologists to prepare their material, determine wording, and come up with acceptable phrasing. In this thread the effect from all that effort is visible.

Weaponizing is seen when a person attacks an idea and is then labeled racist for doing so.

Being PC is now important to many people. That opens them up to criticism and easy manipulation.

Using one’s conscience to decide right-wrong, good-bad, and what is appropriate or inappropriate behavior was a primary sense and considered a basic human trait. But, that creates problems for those seeking political power. They have to overcome our innate sense of right and wrong. Think about it. How do we talk you into beating someone or burning down their home or running them out of a restaurant? Non-psychopathic people being mentally balanced have a problem with such actions because of their conscience, innate sense of right and wrong.

21 hours ago, IvyLarae said:

A while back I was trying on some hairstyles that I was showing a friend while we talked. I tried on this hair because I absolutely loved the curls on it: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/dafnis-FAT-PACK-CURLY-MESH-HAIR-Demo/14911414. I can't remember the exact words that lead up to this, but he said I shouldn't make a black avatar because I am white in RL. Said it was the same as doing black face. I've had many looks for my alts over the years, where they have all been different races, both mythical and human alike so it had never even crossed my mind to think of it that way.

At first I didn't think anything of it but the more I pondered it the more I kept thinking " Is it?" So I figured I would ask here on the matter to get a broader perspective

Do you all think having an avatar a different race than what you are born is wrong? What are your thoughts?

You are questioning your beliefs and your understanding of your world. You are part of a small group of people (as best I can tell) that actually do that. Asking if you are doing something wrong is a form of self-examination and questioning. You’re following in the footsteps of Plato, Socrates, and other philosophers.

The next step in that process is answering your own questions then testing those answers against the world and the ideas of others as if they are a scientific hypothesis. It is the reason free speech is so important.

The challenge is protecting your thinking from the conditioning society is inundating you with. The idea is now is about what you do not why you do it. Thinking is discouraged.

19 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

I think it is wrong if you create an avatar of a any race, even your own race, and use it to embody stereotypes or behave in an obnoxious manner that encourages derision towards that race. I've only seen this once in SL and the avatar disappeared within seconds of filing the AR. I'm sure there are other ways to misuse an avatar not of your race but I think for the vast majority of cases it is okay to be whatever you want. 

Current conditioning is that one cannot/shouldn’t disparage others or say anything bad about anyone. Don’t criticize others behavior or their beliefs. Sounds good. But, who gets to decide what you do?

Should we not tell a child molester they are behaving badly? Should we not tell a jihadi it is wrong to kill innocents? Should we not criticize those behaviors and beliefs that lead to them? See the gotcha? 

Consider. Jeff Dunham and his Achmed the Dead Terrorist is an excellent example. But, by PC standard we should destroy Jeff for such parody. 

I spent time as a forum moderator (not here). We had long discussions about trolls. Trolls serve a purpose by ridiculing those with REALLY DUMB ideas. A factor in deciding what to allow was how the troll was executed; was it mean, abusive, bullying, intended to harm a person… or was it directed at ideas and phrased to generate thought? Our determination of the WHY was key.

There are times when trolling and derogatory parady are appropriate. Especially in politics and by extension our thinking on race.

So, I agree it is OK to do what you want... as you say in a round-about way, providing you aren't intentionally harming others.

13 hours ago, ellestones said:

blackface is where we parody those of african descent for no reason other than to titilate ourselves. Titilation can be in a number of forms. A common one is to produce shrieks of o.m.g! in our friends. Another titilation that happens from time to time in SL is a person goes blackface and then after a few days breathlessly reports on blogs and forums about all the racism they encountered

i think your friend is full of it. He pulls the blackface on you when his reason has nothing to do with you. Am pretty sure, like 100% sure, that he just don't want to go with a black girl

you want to be a black girl then be a black girl. And be proud to be black.  Is not like you are titilating yourself by going to a Hallloween party so your girlfriends can go o.m.g!

I agree. I wouldn't use the word 'titillate'. I think there are many more reasons that just our self indulgence.

11 hours ago, Phorumities said:

That's why Obama got elected.

There is no single reason for Obama's election. But, weaponized racism did come into play. So, I have to wonder what Hillary was thinking here. The result is everyone is spinning about that to support their agenda. Has anyone bothered to ask her what she meant to do?

Consideration of WHY is being conditioned out of our society. People asking asking why and thinking about things messes up people's control and influence.

[ellestones]

1 minute ago, Nalates Urriah said:

 I wouldn't use the word 'titillate'. I think there are many more reasons that just our self indulgence.

yes. I posted as you were posting seems like.  In my latest i showed the 3 broad categories. Each can be further broken down. Blackface can devolve further into denigration for example

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I’m not racist. At all. Anyone who says I am is ignorant. 

I don't think I have the self confidence to make the same claim. And part of that is because I am ignorant.

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I don't think I have the self confidence to make the same claim. And part of that is because I am ignorant.

I make that claim because of my circle of friends and dating history. Those don’t mean I don’t have “preferences”. Good grief, I don’t remember the last time I dated someone like me.

[Ivy Mysterious]

Also Just so you all have the context and the full details of the conversation, I edited he main entry with the conversation logs, the only edits being I changed the names to Me and Friend for the sake of privacy

[Luna Bliss]

39 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

RACISM …. In western democracies there is an enormous amount of propaganda and conditioning going on in an effort to weaponize the idea. Political parties are hiring psychologists to prepare their material, determine wording, and come up with acceptable phrasing. In this thread the effect from all that effort is visible.

Weaponizing is seen when a person attacks an idea and is then labeled racist for doing so.

Being PC is now important to many people. That opens them up to criticism and easy manipulation.

Using one’s conscience to decide right-wrong, good-bad, and what is appropriate or inappropriate behavior was a primary sense and considered a basic human trait. But, that creates problems for those seeking political power. They have to overcome our innate sense of right and wrong. Think about it. How do we talk you into beating someone or burning down their home or running them out of a restaurant? Non-psychopathic people being mentally balanced have a problem with such actions because of their conscience, innate sense of right and wrong.

~~~~~~~~~~
Nalatas, just because society has arrived at a place where making fun of people of other races, LGBTQ people, disabled people, and other marginalized/minority people is looked down on, and sometimes mistakes are made when critcizing others for perceived infractions, this does not mean there is no value in society attempting to correct those who are acting in bigoted ways. You are labeling this as 'Political Correctness", while I label it as 'treating people with respect'.
Yes, it's going to get abused sometimes, and misused by politicians to achieve political goals, but that does not mean this refreshing era permeating society with the notion that it is NOT OK to belittle others who are different should be abolished. Nor does it HAVE to mean that people can't still examine their own ethics.

I understand the annoyance. It's happened to me, just earlier on this forum. I posted a pic of an overweight woman (or man, not sure) in an ugly conservative flag dress, as Phorumities SL house with its Conferderate paraphanalia was apparently under attack from neighbors who had canons (I think) pointed at him. Above the pic I wrote "Help Is On The Way". Someone then accused me of "fat shaming". Yes, it's annoying, but I'd rather someone confront me mistakingly than take away this newfound respect people have for others who are different or disadvantaged.

Another annoying incident. I posted a poem I was beginning, named "Jewish Guard @ The Gas House", and the context of this poem was my perception that some who had less power (the guards) in the situation were buddying up with the most powerful in order to obtain favors (suck ups). A common dynamic, expressed in the poem title.  But someone accused me of being a racist (I guess because I mentioned Jews, who knows!).

Still, please, stop trying to shut this down with your nasty labels (political correctness). People are trying to find their way, and overall it's a good thing. 

[Luna Bliss]

50 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Current conditioning is that one cannot/shouldn’t disparage others or say anything bad about anyone. Don’t criticize others behavior or their beliefs. Sounds good. But, who gets to decide what you do?

Should we not tell a child molester they are behaving badly? Should we not tell a jihadi it is wrong to kill innocents? Should we not criticize those behaviors and beliefs that lead to them? See the gotcha?

Oh come ON for christs sake -- aren't the differences between a child molester/jihadi vs someone calling a disadvantaged person a derogatory name or otherwise abusing them VERY obvious? You are actually calling this a 'gotcha'?

Edited November 3, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[KanryDrago]

13 minutes ago, IvyLarae said:

Also Just so you all have the context and the full details of the conversation, I edited he main entry with the conversation logs, the only edits being I changed the names to Me and Friend for the sake of privacy

Ivy your friend is being an idiot, be what you want to be that is what sl is for

[Luna Bliss]

53 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Using one’s conscience to decide right-wrong, good-bad, and what is appropriate or inappropriate behavior was a primary sense and considered a basic human trait. But, that creates problems for those seeking political power. They have to overcome our innate sense of right and wrong. Think about it. How do we talk you into beating someone or burning down their home or running them out of a restaurant? Non-psychopathic people being mentally balanced have a problem with such actions because of their conscience, innate sense of right and wrong.

There is an effort by the elite to control the masses, I agree. But it is not being done by some onslaught of 'political correctness' designed to control our minds and take away our innate sense of right or wrong. People who have been marginalized are finally coming into power and asserting their rights, no longer content to be relegated to 2nd class status. Supporters are deciding it's impolite to laugh at them in public, and they are believing marginalized people should be given the rights that all enjoy. So they are saying NO to the remaining idiots who want to keep the minorities down. THAT is what you are calling 'political correctness'.

[Hollie Leavitt]

 

 

"Um.. hello.. b-but you know.. I was just gonna tell the black knight that we're not knights... ?"

Edited November 3, 2018 by Hollie Leavitt

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I make that claim because of my circle of friends and dating history. Those don’t mean I don’t have “preferences”. Good grief, I don’t remember the last time I dated someone like me.

I catch myself thinking and doing things that sometimes suggest I harbor latent racism, or certainly otherism. That's just one aspect of the stuff my brain does when I'm not thinking about what it's thinking about. When I hear things like "I'm not racist" or  "I don't judge people" I know it's not true. Everybody judges everybody else, everywhere, all the time. It's how we survive. Even if I rephrase the claim to more accurately reflect what I think is intended as "I don't judge people unfairly" I can't settle all the hairs on the back of my neck.

I try not to judge people unfairly, but I know it will happen because I don't often know their whole story, and their whole story often doesn't guarantee fairness. And when I'm angry I don't even try.

ETA: my response was initially about your saying "I'm not racist", which I expanded to "I don't judge". I brought the original context back. I don't have concerns about you being a racist, just in case that wasn't clear. I simply can't muster enough certainty to say the same about myself.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Everybody judges everybody else, everywhere, all the time.

Duh lulz!

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, IvyLarae said:

Also Just so you all have the context and the full details of the conversation, I edited he main entry with the conversation logs, the only edits being I changed the names to Me and Friend for the sake of privacy

I love it. You started this whole mess by incompletely describing your friend's reaction, and it turns out you are both thoughtful and caring, and as unsure as any of us. Contrary to at least one suggestion here, I think you should keep him. But, what are we going to do with you?

Welcome to the forum, you fit right in, Ivy!