Secondlife declining player base

[Coffee Pancake]

36 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I think he is referring to them, lacking the skill of an actual 3D modeler, like at Pixar, or any other AAA game studio. 

You're over estimating how hard making LOD meshes is by a huge margin. If you can make a thing with mesh, you have all the required skills to make it lower poly. It is genuinely very easy.

If you went to work at Pixar or a AAA game studio, making low poly versions of models would be a job for your understudy/trainee/intern.

[Sammy Huntsman]

I totally understand, how hard it is. I am trying to make Mesh myself, and well usually games, and even Pixar have their models at high Poly. That is why Pixar, needs a big rendering computer, to even render in their models. Which, could take up to years, to even render in. But that is beyond the point, SL as a whole needs an overhaul. The graphics, security, voice, etc. You can't just keep on putting patches on something, and say its fixed Sansar, itself, has volumetric lighting, and proper god rays. Which through the power of editing, SL users have to add. The fact that, you have to use low poly, like in the early 3D game days, is well kinda outdated. That, and having to find workarounds, to create 4K textures, since you can't even upload in 4K. Make a lot of the graphics, pretty archaic. 

[Callum Meriman]

12 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

That, and having to find workarounds, to create 4K textures, since you can't even upload in 4K. Make a lot of the graphics, pretty archaic. 

Oh gosh, can you imagine the abuse we would have if people could upload 4K textures? 

That time little earring that takes up 10 pixels on the screen... with a 4K texture applied? VRam killer! That little knickknack from the H&G store that was 150 pixels tall on the screen with four 4K textures? Well, there goes 10fps. That vendor at Fantasy Faire (just one of 10,000) that was 250 pixels tall on your screen with 4K textures. Can FF become any more texture loaded?

And that's the biggest problem between SL and a Game - a top tier game will have a budget for tris, it will have a budget for textures, it will have a budget for draws. And it will all be pre-computed. Here people can create their own streamed content, and that leads to a lot of abuse.

In almost all cases in SL, 1024x1024 textures are more then enough. Why? We rarely expand them out to full size. Most of the time they are occupying a mere 200 pixels of screen space.

[Drayke Newall]

10 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

If you are making the content yourself then you have ALL the required skills, it's fairly trivial and just takes a little patience.

But then who makes their own content !

Of course if your a content maker you could make varying LOD levels. That's not my argument. My argument is how many creators know you can make the LOD levels or even at what point each LOD mesh needs to be i.e. what is the difference between low and lowest. You are assuming amateur creators know all this (or want to know/research this) when most only know how to do basic meshing and only want to know basic meshing to earn L$ on marketplace. It's the same as why people stick 1024 textures on small objects when an 8x8 texture would do. They don't know the difference. They just see 'oh I can build in second life', upload a 2048 texture, gets converted automatically to 1024 and use that, as the defaults labs have placed in the software allow for the systems to be abused. A lot don't even uv map their stuff. That's why I still believe a higher texture size should cost more to upload than a lower one as this would help show people that higher textures need to be used sparingly.

By taking out in world creation and even not updating it they brought all this to the fore. Heck, you can even create a mesh box that has a lower render cost than the default box prim. If I remember correctly each face of a box prim has over 18 triangles and gives a display weight of about 400 as opposed to 2 triangles from a mesh box with a display weight of half that.

Additionally when you provide creators with a secondary avenue that is flawed such as the LOD input method that allows them to abuse the numbers to get the lowest possible LI at the lowest L$ upload cost, why would they go to the trouble of spending extra time to create their own LOD models when labs have given them an easier way.

If they updated their build/prim tools to create mesh inworld as I mentioned before all those people that want to do basic mesh creation would have all the tools they need and then labs can govern the LOD automatically without relying on creators to know how. Then labs could also allow 3rd party creation tools to be used but make it so that if you want to upload from an external program you have to upload proper LOD levels. Its a win-win situation. Labs gets more users staying in sl longer 'cause people can competitively build again and also ensures that only people that know how to properly do LOD create objects externally.

That's why it's important, as halebore Aeon said, to look at the main problem and fix that first instead of using a band-aid. Its also why I mentioned the avatar render cost as an example. They tried to adjust the arc levels couldn't get it right 'cause they didn't think of anything else other than adjust arc values and so stuck a massive band-aid on it that resulted in something that only degrades the user experience and sees people leave because the experience has degraded. This means if I want a lag free environment I can have that at the cost of ruining my visuals. Did they even look at issues that users have raised for years regarding texture size on avatars, glow, full bright, particles etc and limiting these first? I assume no. Did they try looking at tying the arc values to each attachment point so each point can only have a set amount of an arc value? I assume no. They gave up and gave the jelly doll solution. Wiped their hands of it and said "there fixed".

Sure somethings cant be fixed, after all the program is 15 years old and no one denies this, but there are still varying solutions that can help and allow more users to log in and stay in. It has always been an issue trying to teach people how to build things as well as making the first user experience and ui easier, but labs still fail to find the simple solution in things.

Why are there no in viewer tutorials? Its been 15 years... Open up the build menu and a window slides from the side of the screen (like how their old viewer used to do with the people window etc.) and it has a written tutorial with inworld playable video on how to build in sl. Change the tab on the build menu and the slide window changes to context relating to that build tab. All modern games have in game openable help tutorials because it is easier and doesn't break the experience like opening a wiki in a web browser does.

Why on the build tools don't they have a dynamically changing "build tip" on each of the build menu's? For example go to the upload texture panel and you see "Build Tip: did you know, the smaller your object the less texture size you need." Add varying texture size upload cost and it could read even better "Build Tip: did you know, the smaller your object the less texture size you need and it costs less too." A simple solution to help a larger problem, but after 15 years they still scratch their heads and wonder why no one is building properly or having their arc levels for the avatar high.

Why does the favourites bar on the top only allow for landmarks instead of also people from your friends list? Having the option where I can add the people I hang out with the most up on that bar and being able to right click and teleport, im, pay etc. them directly from there rather than opening the people menu (clogging my screen with windows), finding their name in a large list and tping them from that menu.

I could go on but the post is already big enough so sorry for the long post. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Drayke Newall

[Coffee Pancake]

23 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Of course if your a content maker you could make varying LOD levels. That's not my argument. My argument is how many creators know you can make the LOD levels or even at what point each LOD mesh needs to be i.e. what is the difference between low and lowest.

You clearly missing my point.

In order to make ANYTHING at all in blender. The skills to reduce it's poly count is a requirement. It's not possible to use a 3D modeler and not know how to remove edges or faces. Period.

UV mapping is significantly more difficult and everything sold seems to have a texture on it.

The poly counts for your work is shown on your screen at all times. Target poly counts can be seen in the mesh uploader, a little trial and error, it doesn't take very long to make a full set .. decide you could be more aggressive and start from scratch. Actual numbers for each LOD vary depending on what the item is and how its going to be used, it can be a little touchy feely and comes with a little practice .. if you are using blender then grinding skills and studying tutorials is not new.

The mesh uploader asks for 4 files to upload + a separate physics. The SL wiki has a wealth of information and there are huge numbers of other builders who can assist.

There is ZERO excuse.

29 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

after all the program is 15 years old and no one denies this,

SL is 15 years old .. the program certainly isn't.

The learning curve for making commercial quality content in SL is steep, it has always been steep and requires a solid amount of mixed discipline skill. If a creator needs tool tips, they aren't serious about making anything that sells.

39 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Why does the favourites bar on the top only allow for landmarks instead of also people from your friends list? Having the option where I can add the people I hang out with the most up on that bar and being able to right click and teleport, im, pay etc

In working with Kitty on the Catznip viewer for a decade, no one has ever asked us if this was even possible. If you have an idea for something, don't keep quiet and assume other people have had the same idea and then sat on it.

[ellestones]

On 8/11/2018 at 6:25 AM, animats said:

Now that's a good idea. It sure beats dumping new users into a safe hub full of yelling idiots. Cheap to try, too.

LL have made it so that a new signup's Home is automagically set to the Social Island they went to on leaving Learning Island. This was in response to what you mention. Only time a new signup goes to a WA now is if they choose to do so from the Destinations. Or like everyone else, when their Home sim is offline

[Pamela Galli]

10 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

. It's not possible to use a 3D modeler and not know how to remove edges or faces. Period.

And yet you would be surprised how many people come here who have just modeled the Taj Mahal and have never heard of an edge loop, much less how to delete one. And kindly forum mesh makers provide them with tutorials.

[Callum Meriman]

58 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Why does the favourites bar on the top only allow for landmarks instead of also people from your friends list? Having the option where I can add the people I hang out with the most up on that bar and being able to right click and teleport, im, pay etc. them directly from there rather than opening the people menu (clogging my screen with windows), finding their name in a large list and tping them from that menu.

A very nice idea to save a heap of clicks.

Drag a calling card into favourites and it appears under the LMs or on the right side.

I'll hope a dev sees it and thinks the same. My c++ skills are worse then my attempts to speak Japanese.

[Callum Meriman]

1 minute ago, Pamela Galli said:

And yet you would be surprised how many people come here who have just modeled the Taj Mahal and have never heard of an edge loop, much less how to delete one. 

*sniff* my edge loops keep getting broken. Bye to Ctrl-R. Love to work out why, or how to remake them.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Oh gosh, can you imagine the abuse we would have if people could upload 4K textures? 

Pending cache changes .. as a faster cache is a requirement for being able to swap texture resolutions in and out quickly (or plan B .. have the viewer use a TON of extra regular memory for a secondary cache), it should be possible to get texture resolutions working better and end the VRAM problems once and for all. There is no reason why it can't be solved entirely in software, however as with everything efficiency has to be balanced with performance.

Bigger textures would be great. Having multiple faces share a singe huge texture map will come with a noticeable performance boost .. if the handling in the viewer can be fixed, then there is no reason why anyone should care what resolution textures a thing has .. just so long as it renders at an acceptable resolution for the screen space is occupies and then cleans up after itself .... and doing so doesn't cripple the viewer, which is might

1 minute ago, Callum Meriman said:

*sniff* my edge loops keep getting broken. Bye to Ctrl-R. Love to work out why, or how to remake them.

It's either duplicate vertices or blender hates you. Probably the latter ....

[Drayke Newall]

37 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

You clearly missing my point.

In order to make ANYTHING at all in blender. The skills to reduce it's poly count is a requirement. It's not possible to use a 3D modeler and not know how to remove edges or faces. Period.

UV mapping is significantly more difficult and everything sold seems to have a texture on it.

I'm not missing your point. I fully understand it but you are not taking into account that people are lazy. I know plenty of people who make things in an external program like blender or max and upload it into sl without reducing poly count. I've even bought mesh objects where unseen faces are not removed, not because they were missed but clearly because the person making them doesn't know. So clearly your perception of "in order to make anything at all in blender..." is somewhat flawed if we are even having these discussions.

I also know how hard uv mapping is but once again its these things that make the lag less.

37 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The poly counts for your work is shown on your screen at all times. Target poly counts can be seen in the mesh uploader, a little trial and error, it doesn't take very long to make a full set .. decide you could be more aggressive and start from scratch. Actual numbers for each LOD vary depending on what the item is and how its going to be used, it can be a little touchy feely and comes with a little practice .. if you are using blender then grinding skills and studying tutorials is not new.

Yes, and my rl contracts for my business show clients the project turn around time. Does that mean that if I clearly show that something will take 4 weeks im not going to get a phone call from the client 1 week later asking where there project is? No. People only see what they want to see or if they don't understand something skip over it and see that not optimising objects still upload fine into sl so continue doing it.

37 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The mesh uploader asks for 4 files to upload + a separate physics. The SL wiki has a wealth of information and there are huge numbers of other builders who can assist.

There is ZERO excuse.

And yet here we are arguing as to why people aren't uploading custom LOD files or optimising content. There is always an excuse. The wiki is to complicated, I don't understand the program enough, what's a LOD... Once again in  perfect world it would work like you want where people read a wiki or spend a full week watching youtube tutorials on 3d modeling and optimisation but its not a perfect world so we get left with a mess like mesh is at the moment.

37 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

SL is 15 years old .. the program certainly isn't.

And yet the lindens response to many things is sorry we cant do that as the coding for the program is so complicated due to multiple updates over old systems that a rewrite would be needed.

37 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The learning curve for making commercial quality content in SL is steep, it has always been steep and requires a solid amount of mixed discipline skill. If a creator needs tool tips, they aren't serious about making anything that sells.

And yet unoptimized crap mesh is within sl and does sell and has brought performance down so clearly you do need tool tips or other methods to reinforce all this. Additionally the tool tips idea is more about first time builders in sl. Not serious creators. Just have a tool tip option turn off in the options if serious creators know what they are doing and don't want to see it.

There is a reason why Autodesk put in place hover tool tips in there programs that expand showing sometimes small video gifs on what things do. Because they realised no one read the manual on there site.

37 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

In working with Kitty on the Catznip viewer for a decade, no one has ever asked us if this was even possible. If you have an idea for something, don't keep quiet and assume other people have had the same idea and then sat on it.

Whilst I understand your acknowledgement and point expecting me post on every 3rd party viewer site asking for a feature is a little much. Perhaps if labs had a 3rd party viewer discussion forum here these kind of things could be picked up easier as its the one place most developers look at all the time. But never the two shall meet as far as labs sees. I also realise that 3rd party viewer discussion takes place in the second life viewer section but having a dedicated feature request forum section and not a jira would be better as then it is picked up and commented on by all users not just those few that look at the jira and provide labs some form of idea on the popularity of the feature.

I believe niran has looked into it and put it in his viewer as I requested it. Not sure if it is still in though.

As to cache is there anyway to have it so that you can set a specific sim you regularly visit to not have its cache files overwritten so as you don't have to keep reloading them because they were overwritten?

Edited August 12, 2018 by Drayke Newall
clarification

[Drayke Newall]

16 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

A very nice idea to save a heap of clicks.

Drag a calling card into favourites and it appears under the LMs or on the right side.

I'll hope a dev sees it and thinks the same. My c++ skills are worse then my attempts to speak Japanese.

I believe this is how Niran did it in black dragon viewer when I requested the feature to be looked at, by using the obsolete calling cards as the link with the favourites.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Drayke Newall

[animats]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Pending cache changes .. as a faster cache is a requirement for being able to swap texture resolutions in and out quickly (or plan B .. have the viewer use a TON of extra regular memory for a secondary cache), it should be possible to get texture resolutions working better and end the VRAM problems once and for all. There is no reason why it can't be solved entirely in software, however as with everything efficiency has to be balanced with performance.

(Technical stuff ahead.)

The texture management system in the SL viewer has all the right features. It can read only the lower resolution forms of a texture from the progressive JPEG 2000 files the asset server holds. It can store textures in the fast cache at lower resolutions than given. It can load textures into VRAM with or without mip-mapping and at full or reduced resolution. It can pull a texture from VRAM, reduce its resolution, and put it back. All this is done by threads running in parallel with the main rendering thread. It's really quite impressive.

The trouble is that its decisions on when to do what are implemented in code spread all through the mechanism. There's no central policy module that can be tuned. Nor are there comments explaining what it's doing and why.

Texture policy could be smartened up. For example, the viewer could track how far the avatar moved in the last 5 seconds, and how much it looked around, as a fraction of a sphere. A stationary avatar should get a high-rez view in the direction they're looking, near objects first. A fast moving avatar should get low-rez versions of everything, but as far out as possible, so they can see where they're going. No point in asking for high-rez versions; by the time the texture data gets there, they'll be past it. A stationary avatar that's looking around a lot, shopping or sightseeing, but moving slowly, should get medium-rez data in all directions. If they stop moving or turning, then the objects in view get a higher priority and load full-rez. Shoppers would love that.

The LOD system needs to be smart in the same way. How you're moving should affect what LOD gets loaded.

Tricks like that are part of how to juice up perceived performance. SL needs to deliver at least 20-30 FPS at all times. Even if it means reducing detail level during overload.

The texture system sends messages to LL about its performance, but it's not clear if anyone looks at that data.

[Callum Meriman]

6 minutes ago, animats said:

A stationary avatar that's looking around a lot, shopping or sightseeing, but moving slowly, should get medium-rez data in all directions. If they stop moving or turning, then the objects in view get a higher priority and load full-rez. Shoppers would love that.

Shoppers, and in particular event goers would love that our 1MB/s (10Mb/s) ADSL connections were not being swamped by all the mesh and attachments of 50 other people when we have our complexity set to 0.

The viewer should obey that. If I set everyone to jellybeans, their mesh shouldn't be requested from the CDN, and I can then have my slow internet back to deal with just the vendors.

[Coffee Pancake]

12 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Shoppers, and in particular event goers would love that our 1MB/s (10Mb/s) ADSL connections were not being swamped by all the mesh and attachments of 50 other people when we have our complexity set to 0.

The viewer should obey that. If I set everyone to jellybeans, their mesh shouldn't be requested from the CDN, and I can then have my slow internet back to deal with just the vendors.

In the shopping viewer beta (catznip :P) right now .. exceptions can be people in chat range, friends or specific named avatars. 

This is accompanied by a message on the screen

(Ignore the font .. I just happen to really like open-dyslexic)

 

 

[Callum Meriman]

1 minute ago, CoffeeDujour said:

\o/  but no linux?

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

\o/  but no linux?

Nope. Reasons. Use Wine.

[Penny Patton]

On 8/11/2018 at 10:55 AM, ChinRey said:

Why aren't they here already then? There isn't much in this they haven't heard before. Even if it is true this time, why should they believe it?

Let's say you enjoy drinking milk. You love it!

Now, Linden Lab has put out this giant pitcher of milk. But it's green. It smells absolutely rancid. And if you did decide to taste it you'd probably spit it right back out.

But...you love milk! Why aren't you already drinking it? Second Life is a fantastic idea with an extremely flawed execution. There is no way to overstate SL's problems. THAT is why the people I describe are not already here. Either they've tried to taste the milk and found it spoiled, or they've heard from others about how bad the milk is.

Naturally, if Linden Lab gets their act together and finally addresses many of SL's problems, they'll begin to draw in more people who love the idea of SL, but couldn't get past it's many problems.

On 8/11/2018 at 10:55 AM, ChinRey said:

Look at the Moles. They don't make good LoD models. Are you suggesting they don't care? They do! They care a lot and they are doing everything they can. Or are you saying they aren't generally good builders? They are. The reason they don't make good LoD models is that they still haven't figured out the basics of SL LoD. After seven years with mesh, they still don't know.

I don't care to comment on the quality of individual moles. I'm sure they all do their best with the tools and direction they are given. But I'm convinced most of them gained the entirety of their experiences within the bubble that is Second Life's content creation community. So things someone who learned 3D game modelling outside of SL would take for granted (like keeping texture use and polygon counts low, and being competitive in creating the most detailed looking content using the fewest resources, etc) are not a regular part of their experience.

There are people in SL who do have a handle on SL LOD, SL's LOD setup might be flawed, but it's not like it's entirely impossible to work with. And they also have to work within SL's guidelines, and I have no idea what those guidelines are, who set those guidelines, or what their own experience is like. So I can't really comment on how this may or may not be affecting the mole's content, but it's certainly a factor in how they work.

On 8/11/2018 at 1:40 PM, CoffeeDujour said:

Textures and VRAM use is less of a concern as that can absolutely be 100% solved though better code in the viewer (and is certainly something TPV devs can have a crack at) .

Agree on everything except this. I'm 100% sure that better code can definitely help, and help immensely. However, as long as content remains slathered in literally gigabytes of wastefully made textures, there will be issues. People need to be better about this.

If by some chance LL or a random TPV developer figures out a way to make excessive texture use a non-issue, I encourage them to patent it and approach both the videogame and CG animation industries. They will become filthy rich overnight because texture use is an issue in those industries. And if the AAA videogame developers haven't figured it out yet I can't imagine why people in SL think it's trivial to get around it.

 

 

[animats]

Maybe we're lucky that LL is so inept at retention.

"The Fogg Behavior Model shows that three elements must converge at the same moment for a behavior to occur: Motivation, Ability, and a Prompt. When a behavior does not occur, at least one of those three elements is missing."

Reading up on this topic is scary. You can see how Facebook does it. And why Fortnite is so successful. Fogg is a professor at Stanford and runs the "Behavior Design Lab". One of his students started Instagram.

Second Life scores low on all three axes. Hard to do, no external motivation, and no prompts. If SL got above the green line, it would suck for most of the people here now. But profits would go up.

[ChinRey]

6 minutes ago, animats said:

If SL got above the green line, it would suck for most of the people here now. But profits would go

Profits might go up. Even if LL managed to get over the green line, there's no guarantee anybody outside know. One of the biggest problems LL has with Sansar - according to Ebbe - is to get media coverage and find effective marketing channels. It's the same with Second Life, maybe even more so. And even if they managed to get noticed and managed to convince people who had bad experiences with SL before that things are so much better, that market may not even exist at all.

 

[animats]

55 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Profits might go up. Even if LL managed to get over the green line, there's no guarantee anybody outside know. One of the biggest problems LL has with Sansar - according to Ebbe - is to get media coverage and find effective marketing channels. It's the same with Second Life, maybe even more so. And even if they managed to get noticed and managed to convince people who had bad experiences with SL before that things are so much better, that market may not even exist at all.

That's not really LL's fault - all the new VR worlds have tiny usage. Even Facebook Spaces is not doing well. If Facebook can't make this work, it's probably not happening.

VRChat briefly looked like a success. Briefly. They're on Steam, so there are stats for them that come from Valve, not VRChat, and can probably be trusted.

VR Chat usage. Peaked last holiday season. Far smaller than SL.

Here's Sansar's concurrent user count, into August 2018:

Sansar concurrent users. Yes, that's 10, as in 10 concurrent users. All that effort, staff, servers, to serve 10 users.

SL still has 30,000 to 40,000 concurrent users and claims 10,000 signups a day. Most of those signups are probably bots signing up on the web site, but some of them are real. (I'd like to know how many launched a viewer and logged in successfully. LL won't reveal that, but they know it.) Build on the success you've got, instead of chasing a non-market. Put the resources on SL, where there's potential for a payoff. The VR market just is not going anywhere in this cycle. Maybe in some future generation, but not this one.

If SL could be juiced up to a consistent 20+ FPS and gave new users something interesting to do, it would start growing again.

[Klytyna]

53 minutes ago, animats said:

Most of those signups are probably bots signing up on the web site, but some of them are real. (I'd like to know how many launched a viewer and logged in successfully

There aren't THAT many bots signing up...

More likely is that a significant percentage are...

Console Peasants

"Gah wy r dere no downlod for da Sontendsoft PlaycubeOne? Wy r dere only downlods 4 da OLDIES COMPUTAHS! Dis R suk, kthxbai!"

57 minutes ago, animats said:

If SL could be juiced up to a consistent 20+ FPS

Ban the 95% of the userbase who don't have modern "leet gamerz rigs"...

Then delete the 95% of the content that isn't optimised for a fast FPS game...

59 minutes ago, animats said:

and gave new users something interesting to do

...Then turn whats left into a Multi-Moron-Online Rabid-Para-Gamerz Fathead-Pillock-Shooter (tm, UE4 style...

1 hour ago, animats said:

it would start growing again

...and maybe the quasi illiterate Thumb-Typers would stay long enough to install a viewer on their granny's pc and play for a day or two...

...

The proposed Cure is worse than the presumed disease.
 

[Sammy Huntsman]

Actually, believe it or not. Users would rise if there were console SL viewers. Believe it or not, if you could log onto the grid, in bed, controller in hand, you would see a rapid incline in users. 

[Klytyna]

4 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Actually, believe it or not. Users would rise if there were console SL viewers. Believe it or not, if you could log onto the grid, in bed, controller in hand, you would see a rapid incline in users.

Some years back, there was an official announcement here in the Uk, that admitted that due to budget cuts in pest control, Rats had finally multiplied to the point where they outnumbered people...

You're statement sounds to me like somebody cheering that there are more rats than people...

Yeah, user numbers might rise... But what kind of users? Would what remained STILL BE Secondlife?

Or just some cheezy imitation spinoff...

SecondLife, the Innaccurate Tribute Console Game, NOT recommended for people over 18 with above average IQ's... Only on Sontendsoft PlayCubeOne... Ready Player Thumbs!
 

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, animats said:

Sansar concurrent users. Yes, that's 10, as in 10 concurrent users. All that effort, staff, servers, to serve 10 users.

 

And one of them is Intel.