Race Play

[Madelaine McMasters]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Deal?

Deal!

[Amanda Crisp]

13 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I've not read the whole of this thread, so forgive me if it's been covered already, but some of the Adult "race-play" regions I've seen are based on a whole heap of very unpleasant stereotypes about race and gender.    

As a general response (not to this post specifically) to those who have voiced concern over SL role play sims where occasionally people RP behaving Badly and doing Very Bad Things, I would pose the following question;

”How much fun would an action movie be if the Bad Guy never did anything that gave the Hero a chance to be Heroic?”

Roleplay Sims have had to resort to extreme measures just to keep someone playing “the Heavy” so that plot lines have an easily identifiable Bad Guy. I was actually working as a sim manager one place where we took turns playing Bad Guy on our alts - just so the majority of people who wanted Action had Something To Do.

If it’s roleplay, then someone has to play the negative stereotyped role.....and, as most people involved were not Bad Guys at heart - their presentation of gang bangers, thugs and prostitutes probably seemed a little formulaic or hokey.

Lack of people willing to do this has been slowing killing RP in SL, as has the judgemental stance of many outside the RP community towards Players who undertake to play the In Character Heavy so others have a Bad Guy To Provide the Action of the story.

Are there people in Non-Roleplay situation acting out badly about race or gender?  Sure. My experience in RP sims however, has been that most of what people see there is part of Story - but to really see that, you have to understand the nature if freeform SL Roleplay....

Edited November 20, 2017 by AmandaKeen

[Aislin Ceawlin]

5 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

We are on the cusp of being older, established women

Established conveys a sense of having your ***** together, I know I'm "older" (depending on your perspective), but I'm still working on established.

[Ashlyn Voir]

On 11/18/2017 at 8:22 AM, BilliJo Aldrin said:

how is it race play if the person is of that race? Not gonna tell a white guy to stuff his big n****r dick in me, that makes no sense.

Some blacks like refer to them selves as n****r, and it empowers them more to have a white girl refer to their manhood as a n****r dick.

If its race play hes the one playing not me, I'm just trying to please him, regardless of his race.

Guess I'll just call all well built males studs instead then , instead of buck or bull

 

As I know who this thread is about (a shame you didn’t go in-world to say so), I can’t help but put my own two cents in your thread as a black person myself. And, I’m laughing so hard right now, but it’s okay to be ignorant of a race you’re not a part of. Because...one, not every black person uses n*gga (you said n*gger like what black person calls each other that with the hard ‘er’ like bruh...they don’t say that trust me lmao, but it’s okay you’re not one of us so how would you know). 

Secondly, mentioning your partner’s race in your profile, in my opinion (key word here is opinion), is really unnecessary and makes it seem like his race is more important to you than him as a person. Then again, it’s just my opinion. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

27 minutes ago, AmandaKeen said:

As a general response (not to this post specifically) to those who have voiced concern over SL role play sims where occasionally people RP behaving Badly and doing Very Bad Things, I would pose the following question;

”How much fun would an action movie be if the Bad Guy never did anything that gave the Hero a chance to be Heroic?”

Roleplay Sims have had to resort to extreme measures just to keep someone playing “the Heavy” so that plot lines have an easily identifiable Bad Guy. I was actually working as a sim manager one place where we took turns playing Bad Guy on our alts - just so the majority of people who wanted Action had Something To Do.

With the greatest respect, Amanda -- and I find your argument an interesting, if deeply flawed one -- let me pose you my own question:

"How much respect for or enjoyment of an action movie would we have if the foundation of the conflict were entirely built upon unpleasant and socially dangerous racist stereotypes?"

I teach English literature: I get that any story lines needs a narrative arc that is built upon conflict, and that that conflict is often between protagonist(s) and antagonist(s). There is certainly nothing "wrong" with employing people who do "Bad Things" as antagonists: what is wrong is premising the performance of those "Bad Things" not upon character or circumstance, but rather upon crudely racist stereotypes. If the sole reason that your Big Bad Black Drug Dealer is Big, Bad and Deals Drugs is that he is Black, then, yeah, that's unacceptably racist, because the only motivation, the only "character" that he possesses is your utterly repugnant stereotype about what it means to be "black."

The best movies -- or plays, or novels, or whatever -- don't rely for their antagonists upon racist stereotypes or cardboard figures who are mere stand-ins for racist assumptions: they employ fully-realized, complex villains who have a personal history and discernible depth of character that helps explain their motivation and makes the conflict with the protagonist more interesting and meaningful.

And even the crappiest action movies can no longer get away with simplistic racist stereotypes.

You want your thug or drug dealer to be black (or some other non-white ethnicity)? Fine. But make him an individual. It's lazy, ignorant, dangerous, and deeply offensive to make him representative of awful and outdated racist stereotypes. 

And you know what? I guarantee your RP will be more interesting, engaging, and exciting. You might actually find people want to play the villain! And you won't be contributing a social blight in the process. It's win win win!

[Innula Zenovka]

43 minutes ago, AmandaKeen said:

As a general response (not to this post specifically) to those who have voiced concern over SL role play sims where occasionally people RP behaving Badly and doing Very Bad Things, I would pose the following question;

”How much fun would an action movie be if the Bad Guy never did anything that gave the Hero a chance to be Heroic?”

I know you said you weren't replying to me specifically, but I have to say that the kind of RP you're talking about isn't -- or at least I don't think it is -- the kind I had in mind.   I'm talking about adult venues that offer sexual RP based on very specific and thoroughly objectionable sexual stereotypes about black men and white women,.   I won't try to describe it because I don't feel like fighting with the content filter, but I think the relevant comparison is porn rather than action movies.

[Amanda Crisp]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I know you said you weren't replying to me specifically, but I have to say that the kind of RP you're talking about isn't -- or at least I don't think it is -- the kind I had in mind.   I'm talking about adult venues that offer sexual RP based on very specific and thoroughly objectionable sexual stereotypes about black men and white women,.   I won't try to describe it because I don't feel like fighting with the content filter, but I think the relevant comparison is porn rather than action movies.

I tend to classify sex-centric play more as fetishistic sexplay than Roleplay (even though it involves playing a role). Unfortunately, over 12 years in SL I have seen more than one “Roleplay is evil” campaign where story-based Roleplay was lumped in with the sexplayers and everyone received a morally - indignant verbal shaming.

Story Based Roleplay May well include erotic content, but it is not the purpose of it.

Edited November 20, 2017 by AmandaKeen

[Innula Zenovka]

@AmandaKeen I have in mind a very specific genre of sexual RP, which has as its raison d'être the acting out of some pretty objectionable  racial stereotypes.   That's the only type of RP I'm condemning here, and I certainly don't intend my remarks to cover story-based RP in general.    Indeed, the RP of which I'm thinking doesn't really have a storyline as such. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Innula Zenovka

[Amanda Crisp]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

With the greatest respect, Amanda -- and I find your argument an interesting, if deeply flawed one -- let me pose you my own question:

"How much respect for or enjoyment of an action movie would we have if the foundation of the conflict were entirely built upon unpleasant and socially dangerous racist stereotypes?"

The advantage of Roleplay mirroring the actual dynamic tensions in society can be measured in this way;

It allows people to develop coping mechanisms for those selfsame social tensions that do not involve “run and hide from the thing that bothers me”. 

For persons like myself who daily deal with a certain level of what people like to call “PTSD”, Roleplay can even be therapeutic as it provides a safe outlet to “game out” responses to stressors in a virtual environment. After all, within my own head I can’t hide from what bothers me - so I had to learn to cope.

Lastly, the environment must be taken into consideration. Roleplay sims are privately owned and players spend upwards of $20 on average just to build an avatar for play. Everyone is there voluntarily to participate in writing a story based on the theme of the sim. Should someone with no interest in helping to develop a recreational story be able to dictate what story can and cannot be told? 

[Anna Nova]

17 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I've not read the whole of this thread, so forgive me if it's been covered already, but some of the Adult "race-play" regions I've seen are based on a whole heap of very unpleasant stereotypes about race and gender.    

Can I suggest a re-phrasing:

...  some of the Adult "race-play" regions I've seen are based on a whole heap of stereotypes about race and gender that I personally find very unpleasant. 

I know some of us have legal training, at least they sometimes write as if they had.

In a democracy*, when the Majority feels something is unpleasant, then it gets laws passed to control it.  In an autocracy, you get the laws when the autocrat finds it unpleasant.  This is the principle difference between the two systems.  In both cases there are often large numbers of people who disagree with the law, and sometimes, even in democracies, due to the quirks of fate, the minority view gets elected.

LL is a corporation, and is run by it's officers under the authority of it's board(or whatever it's called), given in the State in which it is Registered, the rules (not laws) it makes for SL are in the TOS.  There are several legitimate ways for an approach to getting it's rules changed: you can appeal to it's officers, you can appeal to it's board, or you could even petition the government of the jurisdiction in which it is registered.  The alternative, if you really don't like the rules, is to take your business elsewhere.

I see these forums as a place to let off steam, not as a serious attempt to sway the opinion of LL's officers.  If they take note at all, then they are very conscientious.

 

* I live in the UK.  It is not a democracy, but has some democratic elements to the way representatives are chosen.  The USA is a Representative Republic, which is similar, but different.  Most European countries are the same.  Only Switzerland, to my knowledge, has some elements of true democracy.  And these are not value judgements - I am not seeking to change anything.

[Amanda Crisp]

8 minutes ago, anna2358 said:

Can I suggest a re-phrasing:

...  some of the Adult "race-play" regions I've seen are based on a whole heap of stereotypes about race and gender that I personally find very unpleasant. 

I know some of us have legal training, at least they sometimes write as if they had.

In a democracy*, when the Majority feels something is unpleasant, then it gets laws passed to control it.  In an autocracy, you get the laws when the autocrat finds it unpleasant.  This is the principle difference between the two systems.  In both cases there are often large numbers of people who disagree with the law, and sometimes, even in democracies, due to the quirks of fate, the minority view gets elected.

LL is a corporation, and is run by it's officers under the authority of it's board(or whatever it's called), given in the State in which it is Registered, the rules (not laws) it makes for SL are in the TOS.  There are several legitimate ways for an approach to getting it's rules changed: you can appeal to it's officers, you can appeal to it's board, or you could even petition the government of the jurisdiction in which it is registered.  The alternative, if you really don't like the rules, is to take your business elsewhere.

I see these forums as a place to let off steam, not as a serious attempt to sway the opinion of LL's officers.  If they take note at all, then they are very conscientious.

 

* I live in the UK.  It is not a democracy, but has some democratic elements to the way representatives are chosen.  The USA is a Representative Republic, which is similar, but different.  Most European countries are the same.  Only Switzerland, to my knowledge, has some elements of true democracy.  And these are not value judgements - I am not seeking to change anything.

One key component on governmental influence on private expression depends on whether there is an instrument in place that specifically makes free expression more difficult to attack than with a mere 51% majority vote. Constitutional monarchies or Republics might have such things written into their “ground rules” to protect the privilege of dissent or even Provocative Art.

One expression that I have heard over the years that exemplifies this concept is; “You are committed to freedom of expression when someone says something that makes you furious; and yet you are willing to defend their privilege of saying it.”

Something similar was attributed to Voltaire / Francois-Marie Arouet :-)

Its one of the harder concepts to live, and unfortunately many in my homeland no longer bother to try.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 hours ago, AmandaKeen said:

The advantage of Roleplay mirroring the actual dynamic tensions in society can be measured in this way;

It allows people to develop coping mechanisms for those selfsame social tensions that do not involve “run and hide from the thing that bothers me”. 

For persons like myself who daily deal with a certain level of what people like to call “PTSD”, Roleplay can even be therapeutic as it provides a safe outlet to “game out” responses to stressors in a virtual environment. After all, within my own head I can’t hide from what bothers me - so I had to learn to cope.

So, let's break this down. You are defending racist role play because, you say, it "mirrors the actual dynamic tensions in society," correct? In other words, you are defending a racist understanding of motivations and identity because you think that These accurately represent -- "mirror," in your words -- the real world. 

So . . . the racism in your RP is no longer about story arc or narrative. Your RP is racist because . . . well, because you are?

I am very well aware that RP is often used -- in controlled contexts and under expert supervision -- to deal with PTSD. Arguing that it is only therapeutic If it is reductive, falsifying, and, yes, racist is sheer and utter nonsense.

3 hours ago, AmandaKeen said:

Lastly, the environment must be taken into consideration. Roleplay sims are privately owned and players spend upwards of $20 on average just to build an avatar for play. Everyone is there voluntarily to participate in writing a story based on the theme of the sim. Should someone with no interest in helping to develop a recreational story be able to dictate what story can and cannot be told? 

This is the familiar "we're paying for the privilege of being racist (or misogynist or homophobic or transphobic), and that gives us the right to be as objectionably mendacious and idiotic as we want!"

Well, sure, maybe. I'm delighted to observe, however, that my even more secure right to call you out as a racist costs me exactly nothing. I think I'm getting much the better deal.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

As I know who this thread is about (a shame you didn’t go in-world to say so), I can’t help but put my own two cents in your thread as a black person myself. And, I’m laughing so hard right now, but it’s okay to be ignorant of a race you’re not a part of. Because...one, not every black person uses n*gga (you said n*gger like what black person calls each other that with the hard ‘er’ like bruh...they don’t say that trust me lmao, but it’s okay you’re not one of us so how would you know). 

Secondly, mentioning your partner’s race in your profile, in my opinion (key word here is opinion), is really unnecessary and makes it seem like his race is more important to you than him as a person. Then again, it’s just my opinion. 

I know i never said every black person uses the N word to describe themselves.

My partner is a girl, she has no part in any of this.

I mention my boyfriend in two of my picks. In the one where i talk about him being my boyfriend, there is no mention of race.

The other post is about Bull and Bunny, its for a performance I'm trying to promote. Perhaps I'm pandering to racial stereotypes by calling him  Bull, but I'm Bunny. Its just a cute pairing of names, nothing more

Maybe i'm pandering to racial stereotypes by promoting it as black guy, white girl thing, but that's what we are.

If it makes someone think I'm promoting racial stereotypes its really not my problem. And  Its still not race play because its factually correct. 

I wonder if you are suggesting  I should stick to my own race.

I still say I don't role play, and i certainly don't race play.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, anna2358 said:

[a whole bunch of impressive-sounding pseudo-knowledge that makes some highly tendentious and largely irrelevant claims about "democracy"]

Most of what you say here, defending the right of people to say truly awful racist things, is a great deal of sound and fury signifying nothing.

It's a straw man argument. Nobody is contesting your right to be racist, or even engage in racist RP. (See the first bullet point in my post above, in response to James.) No one has called for a ban of this.

But If we grant you the right to engage in racist behaviours, then you too must reciprocate, and grant that we have the right to criticize you for it. Having the right to do something does not exempt you from that, nor from the natural consequences of your free choice. One of those consequences is that people are going to see that you are racists, and call you out for it.

 

 

[Amanda Crisp]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, let's break this down. You are defending racist role play because, you say, it "mirrors the actual dynamic tensions in society," correct? In other words, you are defending a racist understanding of motivations and identity because you think that These accurately represent -- "mirror," in your words -- the real world. 

So . . . the racism in your RP is no longer about story arc or narrative. Your RP is racist because . . . well, because you are?

I am very well aware that RP is often used -- in controlled contexts and under expert supervision -- to deal with PTSD. Arguing that it is only therapeutic If it is reductive, falsifying, and, yes, racist is sheer and utter nonsense.

This is the familiar "we're paying for the privilege of being racist (or misogynist or homophobic or transphobic), and that gives us the right to be as objectionably mendacious and idiotic as we want!"

Well, sure, maybe. I'm delighted to observe, however, that my even more secure right to call you out as a racist costs me exactly nothing. I think I'm getting much the better deal.

To clarify, the thrust of my thoughts about Roleplay Is that by portraying a character whose role it is to behave badly, I drive plot for the other folks whose characters oppose me :-)

When I take on a character (that’s called “acting” by the way) my job is to portray that character, even when I and the other players are laughing in IMs to one another over what a complete piece of garbage I am portraying In Character.

I provide an accessible villain and they get to exercise their heroic muscles and literary talents opposing me. When that story-arc completes; then one of them gets to be the Mean Person next time :-)

That makes me a racist ? Carrol O’Connor was a racist for portraying Archie Bunker?

Tangentenally, it’s very cathartic for me when I’m not playing the heavy - to be able to Roleplay the act of dealing with bad behavior much more directly than our sensitive society deems “correct”. If the other character is being an evil bastage; you can tell them that and then play through an attempt to discourage their evilness.

In RL (real life) in the business world, dealing with bad behavior takes time, paperwork and lawyers - roleplaying spray-painting the rich bad-guy’s Mercedes is rather fun compared to that :-)

Roleplay is escapism :-)

So I contend that you are way off base to call me a racist :-) You are of course entitled to your own opinion :-)

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, AmandaKeen said:

One key component on governmental influence on private expression depends on whether there is an instrument in place that specifically makes free expression more difficult to attack than with a mere 51% majority vote. Constitutional monarchies or Republics might have such things written into their “ground rules” to protect the privilege of dissent or even Provocative Art.

One expression that I have heard over the years that exemplifies this concept is; “You are committed to freedom of expression when someone says something that makes you furious; and yet you are willing to defend their privilege of saying it.”

Something similar was attributed to Voltaire / Francois-Marie Arouet :-)

Its one of the harder concepts to live, and unfortunately many in my homeland no longer bother to try.

Again, a straw man argument.

No one is contesting your right to free speech (or free RP). Go for it!

What we are contesting is your intelligence, for wasting such an important right to spread vile and easily disproved racist nonsense.

[Amanda Crisp]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

What we are contesting is your intelligence, for wasting such an important right to spread vile and easily disproved racist nonsense.

You keep missing the function of Roleplay :-) Storytelling is not intended to convert anyone to any belief; it is intended to tell a story....

.....where the bad people lose in the end :-)

[Ceka Cianci]

*Slowly and quietly opens the door and looks around*

*whispers loudly* Ok Trisha,I think they're gone,Give me the box..

Trisha: Ceka,I don't think we should be doing this,they are gonna know it was you..

Ceka: Trisha,I've rickrolled just about everyone in here and they didn't know it until it was happening,Now give me the freakin box before I throw you in this room and yell,Trump support on the loose, at the top of my lungs!

Trisha: Fine,whatever,here is your stupid box.

Ceka:Now lets git before someone shows up..

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

8 hours ago, AmandaKeen said:

To clarify, the thrust of my thoughts about Roleplay Is that by portraying a character whose role it is to behave badly, I drive plot for the other folks whose characters oppose me :-)

When I take on a character (that’s called “acting” by the way) my job is to portray that character, even when I and the other players are laughing in IMs to one another over what a complete piece of garbage I am portraying In Character.

I provide an accessible villain and they get to exercise their heroic muscles and literary talents opposing me. When that story-arc completes; then one of them gets to be the Mean Person next time :-)

That makes me a racist ? Carrol O’Connor was a racist for portraying Archie Bunker?

Tangentenally, it’s very cathartic for me when I’m not playing the heavy - to be able to Roleplay the act of dealing with bad behavior much more directly than our sensitive society deems “correct”. If the other character is being an evil bastage; you can tell them that and then play through an attempt to discourage their evilness.

In RL (real life) in the business world, dealing with bad behavior takes time, paperwork and lawyers - roleplaying spray-painting the rich bad-guy’s Mercedes is rather fun compared to that :-)

Roleplay is escapism :-)

So I contend that you are way off base to call me a racist :-) You are of course entitled to your own opinion :-)

Your "All in the Family" analogy is broken. Carrol O'Connor didn't write the show, Norman Lear did. Was Archie Bunker a racist? Yes. (I don't know actually, I've never seen the show.) Was Norman Lear racist? No. My understanding of Norman Lear is that he used the show to shine an unflattering light on -isms and phobias through satire. Carrol O'Conner was rowing in the direction Lear pointed.

I can't imagine Lear laughing gleefully at an audience that missed the point. Nor can I imagine that the show was the expression of Lear's bigotry and we all misunderstood him as a brilliant satirist. I don't know how you'd prove something so soft to the satisfaction of everybody, but I think the consensus is that All in the Family was a net positive for American society. It may have been painful at the time, but satire's bite is supposed to hurt.

Amanda, I can only go by your own characterization of the RP you do, but if your laughing in IMs to one another is about the gullibility of an audience that embraces the stereotypes you present, then yes, you are racist. If you are laughing at your own lampooning of bigoted behavior, and your audience gets it, you are not a racist. If you are unable or unwilling to discern whether your audience gets it or not, you are careless.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Madelaine McMasters

[Innula Zenovka]

11 hours ago, anna2358 said:

Can I suggest a re-phrasing:

...  some of the Adult "race-play" regions I've seen are based on a whole heap of stereotypes about race and gender that I personally find very unpleasant. 

I know some of us have legal training, at least they sometimes write as if they had.

In a democracy*, when the Majority feels something is unpleasant, then it gets laws passed to control it.  In an autocracy, you get the laws when the autocrat finds it unpleasant.  This is the principle difference between the two systems.  In both cases there are often large numbers of people who disagree with the law, and sometimes, even in democracies, due to the quirks of fate, the minority view gets elected.

LL is a corporation, and is run by it's officers under the authority of it's board(or whatever it's called), given in the State in which it is Registered, the rules (not laws) it makes for SL are in the TOS.  There are several legitimate ways for an approach to getting it's rules changed: you can appeal to it's officers, you can appeal to it's board, or you could even petition the government of the jurisdiction in which it is registered.  The alternative, if you really don't like the rules, is to take your business elsewhere.

I see these forums as a place to let off steam, not as a serious attempt to sway the opinion of LL's officers.  If they take note at all, then they are very conscientious.

 

* I live in the UK.  It is not a democracy, but has some democratic elements to the way representatives are chosen.  The USA is a Representative Republic, which is similar, but different.  Most European countries are the same.  Only Switzerland, to my knowledge, has some elements of true democracy.  And these are not value judgements - I am not seeking to change anything.

Sorry, but I don't really see your point.   

When I say the stereotypes on which this particular form of RP is very unpleasant, I don't mean it's illegal, or that it should be, or even that LL should ban it.   I mean no more and no less that what I say, that they are very unpleasant.     There's all sorts of things -- in SL and elsewhere -- I think are unpleasant, or even downright pernicious, but it doesn't follow I want them banned.   

In consequence ,I'm very unwilling to accept your proposed re-wording, I'm sorry to say, because I am unwilling to adopt a form of phrasing that suggests that finding highly racist and sexist stereotypes very unpleasant is simply a matter of personal preference.   

I'll leave that to The Dude.

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Innula Zenovka

[Madelaine McMasters]

5 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Damn you, Ceka. That's a full then minutes of my life I'll never get back.

"You done? Are you done??"

;-).

[Amanda Crisp]

11 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Your "All in the Family" analogy is broken. Carrol O'Connor didn't write the show, Norman Lear did. Was Archie Bunker a racist? Yes. (I don't know actually, I've never seen the show.) Was Norman Lear racist? No. My understanding of Norman Lear is that he used the show to shine an unflattering light on -isms and phobias through satire. Carrol O'Conner was rowing in the direction Lear pointed.

I can't imagine Lear laughing gleefully at an audience that missed the point. Nor can I imagine that the show was the expression of Lear's bigotry and we all misunderstood him as a brilliant satirist. I don't know how you'd prove something so soft to the satisfaction of everybody, but I think the consensus is that All in the Family was a net positive for American society. It may have been painful at the time, but satire's bite is supposed to hurt.

Amanda, I can only go by your own characterization of the RP you do, but if your laughing in IMs to one another is about the gullibility of an audience that embraces the stereotypes you present, then yes, you are racist. If you are laughing at your own lampooning of bigoted behavior, and your audience gets it, you are not a racist. If you are unable or unwilling to discern whether your audience gets it or not, you are careless.

It seems that Norman Lear can be given credit for using an unpleasant role to shine light on a more noble purpose, but I cannot :-)

We are laughing -at- the mindset being depicted; not gleefully celebrating stupidity.

 

[Anna Nova]

12 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Sorry, but I don't really see your point.   

....

In consequence ,I'm very unwilling to accept your proposed re-wording, I'm sorry to say, because I am unwilling to adopt a form of phrasing that suggests that finding highly racist and sexist stereotypes very unpleasant is simply a matter of personal preference.   

....

OK, I see it now.  I guess I had read too many posts in this thread....

[Ceka Cianci]

16 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Damn you, Ceka. That's a full then minutes of my life I'll never get back.

"You done? Are you done??"

;-).

I haven't the foggiest idea of what you are talking about..

I wasn't even around..I was at work,no I mean the icecream man came by,no wait,The movies.. Yea that's where I was,The moooovies..

Edited November 21, 2017 by Ceka Cianci

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

the icecream man came by...

During the few years of my career when I worked in a design lab, I had a copy of this cartoon hanging on the wall over one of the benches...

One of my colleagues scribbled long hair and lipstick on the fella farthest to the right.

I do, when wearing a blazer and blouse in RL (and SL), often top it off with a bowtie...

Edited November 21, 2017 by Madelaine McMasters