Did anyone else find this unacceptable?

Prokofy Neva · July 30, 2016

This answer justifies not only "suggestive" clothing but clothing that is very obviously designed for "age play" (a euphemism which means "child pornography") with child avatars and as such, it should be banned.

The claim is that in real life, there are very suggestive clothing options like this for children for sale in stores.

I don't recall seeing BDSM outfits for children -- harnesses, g-strings, and the like -- in Macy's or other stores with sections for children. That's patently ridiculous.

And truly, guys, you dress up in a BDSM harness and an evocative g-string in order to go on a picnic with the family in a G-rated sim? Really?

I will go on abuse-reporting these offerings when I see them go by on the Marketplace as "what other residents are buying". It's wrong.

If Linden Lab has a policy against ageplay -- which it does and should regardless of what people think regarding the application onf the First Amendment -- then it has to extend that to the props for this banned activity.

Quinn Lysette · July 30, 2016

what you need to do is report all the sl hookers and escorts i am now doin that cuz if prostitution is ilegal in rl it should be ilegal in sl to so i report all i can every day becuz some of those escorts n hookers are making atleast 1,000 in rl money a week and withdrwing the lindins to there bank accounts making it a rl crime so report the escorts and hookers and protitutes

Alwin Alcott · July 30, 2016

agreeing with both posts above...

Callum Meriman · July 30, 2016

Top one and bottom one are swimwear. Unless you are from the 1800s these are something you can see on any beach. Swimwear is not pornography. We left the days of shoulder to knee covering behind 100 years ago.

Middle ones, well you can see his treasure-trail in the second of his two pictures. Not sure of many kids with those.

(edit, nah, I won't post a picture of a treasure trail, americans get upset over that stuff, removed that picture)

Sorry prok, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Codex Alpha · July 30, 2016

Quinn Lysette wrote:

prostitution is ilegal in rl it should be ilegal in sl

Prokofy Neva wrote:

If Linden Lab has a policy against ageplay -- which it does and should regardless of what people think regarding the application onf the First Amendment -- then it has to extend that to the props for this banned activity.

It is not illegal to sell clothing. Also, just because it is made and advertised for the child avatar in mind, doesn't mean it is automatically sexual or related to child sex abuse, pornography, etc.

In many countries around the world, you will see a variance of dress, regardless of age, even swimwear. What we may find shocking here, may be the norm elsewhere.

Yes, there are young teenagers wearing thongs on public beaches, and others may even go topless.

Your reaction to seeing it should be scrutinized more - rather than how someone chooses to remain cool and/or sunbathe. Your concern should even be less when it comes to an environment like Second Life - where you only see what you are seeking - and leave the rest for other members to deal with.

Whether or not I find certain roleplay distasteful, it's not illegal, and never should be, not do RL rules or infractions be, unless someone is affected in RL.

Or else, what you are calling for is 'thought crime", and frankly, that is more distasteful than letting consenting adults roleplay whatever they want, or buy whatever clothes they want for whatever avatar they want.

Madelaine McMasters · July 30, 2016

entity0x wrote:

What you are calling for is '

thought crime

", and frankly, that is more distasteful than letting consenting adults roleplay whatever they want, or buy whatever clothes they want for whatever avatar they want.

I'm agreed.

I'd have been sent to the gallows long ago if my thoughts weren't mine alone.

Aethelwine · July 30, 2016

Quinn Lysette wrote:

what you need to do is report all the sl hookers and escorts i am now doin that cuz if prostitution is ilegal in rl it should be ilegal in sl to so i report all i can every day becuz some of those escorts n hookers are making atleast 1,000 in rl money a week and withdrwing the lindins to there bank accounts making it a rl crime so report the escorts and hookers and protitutes

I an thinking your post is meant as sarcasm, but just in case you aren't I will point out that the nearest someone can come to prostitution in SL is collaborative writing and that is very different from the sorts of activities covered by prostitution laws.

Alwin Alcott · July 30, 2016

what you forget is that escort work in SL often requires CAM work... and that IS seen as prostitution in many countries.

Next to that it's impossible to check if a employee is adult. But i'm sure you don't mind your 16 or 17 yr old daughter playing herself in front of a cam.

Syo Emerald · July 30, 2016

Why did you open this thread?

Why did you come to the forum to seek approval of riding the moral high horse in public?

You could simply and silently reported the products in question and then maybe spent the next hour or so searching more of those products and report those aswell.

Does it feel good, to get a few virtual pats on your head for doing a (maybe) good thing...even if that good thing is probably pointless?

Syo Emerald · July 30, 2016

Quinn Lysette wrote:

what you need to do is report all the sl hookers and escorts i am now doin that cuz if prostitution is ilegal in rl it should be ilegal in sl to so i report all i can every day becuz some of those escorts n hookers are making atleast 1,000 in rl money a week and withdrwing the lindins to there bank accounts making it a rl crime so report the escorts and hookers and protitutes

Prostitution is legal in my country.

Codex Alpha · July 30, 2016

Alwin Alcott wrote:

what you forget is that escort work in SL often requires CAM work... and that IS seen as prostitution in many countries.

This is a NEW argument, and essentially is moving the goal posts in a discussion/debate. It is a tactic frequently used when an argument has been counter-acted effectively, yet the arguing party wants to still win.

The original post was about clothing for avatars, and imagined behaviour and roleplay between consenting adults who subscribe to the Second Life virtual world service.

Alwin Alcott wrote:

Next to that it's impossible to check if a employee is adult. But i'm sure you don't mind your 16 or 17 yr old daughter playing herself in front of a cam.

Next to impossible for whom? Last time I checked, one needed to be 19-21 years of age in order to write contracts and be eligible for credit cards - which amounts to "payment on file" for the average Second Lifer. Linden Labs has access to all that information, the personal names of users. Should their job now be to peek into the activity of their subscribers and police their activities as well?

If a child is participating in Second Life activities fit for the Adult category, and there is payment on file, then that has to do with the parent involved who put the credit card up, and therefore monitoring of their child's activities is their responsibility.

Alwin Alcott wrote:

But i'm sure you don't mind your 16 or 17 yr old daughter playing herself in front of a cam.

And that was a straight up, unfair and undeserved personal attack. Discuss the topic and points made, not the person.

Rhonda Huntress · July 30, 2016

Syo Emerald wrote:

Why did you open this thread?

Why did you come to the forum to seek approval of riding the moral high horse in public?

You could simply and silently reported the products in question and then maybe spent the next hour or so searching more of those products and report those aswell.

Does it feel good, to get a few virtual pats on your head for doing a (maybe) good thing...even if that good thing is probably pointless?

Yeah, but look at how many people are going to see those products now! I am sure that merchant made a few more sales thanks to the free advertisement.

Alwin Alcott · July 30, 2016

entity0x wrote

This is a NEW argument,

Alwin Alcott wrote:

Next to that it's impossible to check if a employee is adult

Next to impossible for whom? Last time I checked, one needed to be 19-21 years of age in order to write contracts and be eligible for credit cards

And that was a straight up, unfair and undeserved

personal attack

.Discuss the topic and points made, not the person.

At first it's no new argument, i responded to both first posts... that you don't read isn't my problem.

Second, you don't need credit cards or payment info to enter adult regions, your birthdate is enough.

Third, that you have trouble understanding reading, again, isn't my problem, using examples and you taking it personal shows only that you don't understand your own picture you added : Stop trying to make SL into RL .

Bobbie Faulds · July 30, 2016

There is a segment in BDSM play know as femboi. The character is over 18 but is androgynous/feminine. The avi those are made for is aimed at the femboi community, not child avis. Pink Fuel even has the tat for the femboi to use with their skins to look a bit more masculine rather than like the Japanese anime meme of females with male parts (there's specific name for this type but the name escapes me at the moment).

BilliJo Aldrin · July 30, 2016

Since there is no physical contact, there is no prostitution at all in sl. Its not illegal to engage in sexually explicit speech.

Amethyst Jetaime · July 30, 2016

Neither answer justified the clothing they both just explained LL policy. And it is true that you can see suggestive clothing for kids in RL. Maybe not at Macy's but you can.

Note that I myself as well as Lindal expressed our personal distaste for the clothing (except that there is nothing wrong with the first picture IMO).

The answers section is just that. It isn't a section where it is appropriate to "get an answer from Linden Lab on this question" They don't go there.

BilliJo Aldrin · July 30, 2016

No second life viewers support webcams, so webcam sex has nothing to do with Second Life.

Alwin Alcott · July 30, 2016

BilliJo Aldrin wrote:

No second life viewers support webcams, so webcam sex has nothing to do with Second Life.

your first half is right, the second shows you have no clue how it works.

BilliJo Aldrin · July 30, 2016

You are the one with no clue. If i want to cam with someone i need to bring up a program such as skype. There is ZERO webcam sex in sl sweetie.

Prokofy Neva · July 30, 2016

So, any of those replying here themselves the makers of clothing like this?

I think some of the famous child avatars could explain the difference between fembois and the *children* in these ads who are not fembois.

Anybody who thinks any of this clothing is available in a real-life store, please send proof.

Amethyst Jetaime · July 31, 2016

No, I don't make any of those clothes or any like them.

Once again, as I said in my answer, I find all those clothes except the first one distasteful for kids. But LL does allow it as long as all the naughty bits are covered and nothing sexual is mentioned in the ads. Please provide proof of any rule that contradicts this please.

Here is proof that kids do wear swim briefs like, the one in the first picture, and they are available for sale. Most kids who swim competitively wear them. I've seen them at my local pool wearing them for swim meets and when they are there just for fun.

Here is a pic of a RL little girl in a string bikini. Again, I don't think it's appropriate. But obviously it's for sale somewhere.

If you want to change the rules, contact LL and ask them to. Here is the suggestion page where you can do that. Don't complain about the people who answer questions just because you don't like the answer.

Callum Meriman · July 31, 2016

Prokofy Neva wrote:

I think some of the famous child avatars could explain the difference between fembois and the *children* in these ads who are not fembois.

Ignoring the first and last pictures, which are clearly not porn and something you could see real kids wear at any beach - let's focus on Frodo's pictures, the middle two. Because I think those are the ones giving you the greatest confusion.

(At least I hope so, because if you are having conniptions about boys in speedos you need to see a psychiatrist, fast)

Why do you think they are *children*? Seriously, please explain why you think the middle two femboys are children? He doesn't look like an SL kid to me, heck just that treasure trail and pubes is a dead give away - and knowing who they are they don't even act anything like a child either. They are an adult in SL, they act like an adult in SL and they look like any number of other androgynous adults in SL - and of that there are plenty - it's a huge community.

Prok as you are clearly a very old person it's going to be very difficult to explain why the middle two ads ad look nothing like SL Kids. To do that would need you to have an understanding of Androgony.

But despite the almost impossibility of this task let's try and frame what a Femboy is. (1) They are generally not children.

Urban dictionary's most appropriate definition is:

A femboy is a person, typically under the age of 30 years, who is biologically male. However, this person will often present himself in a very feminine manner. This behavior may be exhibited part of the time, or all of the time.

Femboys are not to be confused with ladyboys, who are a type of Asian male to female transsexual.

Femboys are also different from cross-dressers. Despite being feminine, femboys do not necessarily wear clothing designed for females, but this is very common.

The fact that one is a femboy says nothing about one's sexuality. Femboys may be straight, gay, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, or of any other sexuality.

It is also not necessarily indicative of one's gender identity. A femboy may still identify as male, or he may wish to be identified as female. However, it is common for femboys to be bigender.

In 1960s terms the English model, actress and singer Twiggy was androgenous, early David Bowie was androgenous, A lot of pop singers from the old days were if my research is right.

The only way you will be able to grow is to head out and look. Prok, I suggest you crawl into a realistic sized avatar (182cm tall) do an inworld search for Femboy and head to some of the topmost venues returned in search.

You will see the SMB mesh body worn by clear adults and you will see clothing like these middle two ads.

Edit: You will also see a lot of Futa avatars, and that will be even more fun to explain than androgeny!

Rufferta · July 31, 2016

Callum Meriman wrote:

Prokofy Neva wrote:

I think some of the famous child avatars could explain the difference between fembois and the *children* in these ads who are not fembois.

Ignoring the first and last pictures, which are clearly not porn and something you could see real kids wear at any beach - let's focus on Frodo's pictures, the middle two. Because I think those are the ones giving you the greatest confusion.

(At least I hope so, because if you are having conniptions about boys in speedos you need to see a psychiatrist, fast)

Why do you think they are *children*

? Seriously,

please explain

why you think the middle two femboys are children? He doesn't look like an SL kid to me, heck just that treasure trail and pubes is a dead give away - and knowing who they are they don't even act anything like a child either. They are an adult in SL, they act like an adult in SL and they look like any number of other androgynous adults in SL - and of that there are plenty - it's a huge community.

Prok as you are clearly a very old person it's going to be very difficult to explain why the middle two ads ad look nothing like SL Kids. To do that would need you to have an understanding of Androgony.

But despite the almost impossibility of this task let's try and frame what a Femboy is.

(1) They are generally not children.