Did anyone else find this unacceptable?

[Magnanimousity]

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entity0x wrote:

No matter what anyone says, an avatar is not a child.

If two adults in SL want to 'age-play' or 'role-play' their first kiss using child avatars, that is up to them. No children are involved, only adults.

An avatar cannot be a sexual object by itself, only the person wielding the avatar can do that.

A  picture of a child avatar in a bikini also is not child pornography.

One cannot tell the intent, or even assume the use of, a child avatar in SL.

THough it is not my cup of tea, unless you were to observe private SL users with child avatars and spy on them - there is no reason to suspect they are using the avatars in the parameters that a virtual world like SL allows.

If you can't look at an innocent picture (or advertisement) of clothing for a child avatar - without sexualizing it - perhaps the issue is more in your mind than it is in the sellers'.

Also, even if there were 'questionable' activity by consenting adults in SEcond Life, and whether or not I find the subject/action/fetish disgusting - I will defend any roleplay by any (ADULT VERIFIED ACCOUNT), do do what ever they please. - SECOND LIFE IS A VIRTUAL WORLD, NOT THE REAL WORLD.

 

Addendum: Hopefully such questionable activities should be restricted to private sims only;. I don't believe the femboi-humping dude or the dog-humping dude observed in the Premium default user homes was appropriate...

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The ageplay policy says otherwise. It's a matter of legality and publicity issues (see the german news outlet that lead to the ban of ageplay) rather than just strict morals here. Linden Lab doesn't want ageplay content of any kind to exist after they were publicly aired out for it. I asked the original question wanting to know if this was content that was allowed for child avatars to have, I was told it was as far as anyone could tell even if it was distasteful, I left it at that until this discussion was brought up. I contacted support and they refuse to comment on the situation, so we're just kinda left in the dark on this for now.

[Bobbie Faulds]

Something that occured to me after watching some anime with my friend. These kind of outfits are frequently seen on "young"-ie 18-22 or so, male in those, especially the post apocalyptic type. That particular avi those clothes are for are frequently used for anime based avis, who tend to look younger anyway.

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

ffs, so, if this bothers you then AR it, report it.  If it remains, LL are OK with it.  That's the end of it, whatever Mag and Prok think.  

Since I assume you HAVE reported/AR'd this, and since you both still seem awfully cross, I guess LL didn't act.  So, pull up your big girl panties and deal.

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

Blimey Quinn, did you STILL not find a 'woman in real life' to make sexeh with?  Get over it, and please try to realise that prostitution is entirely legal in many many countries around the world.  As it should be, cos, if it's ours, and we sell it, and we still have it, well, pretty good business, I'd say.  man up, chap.

[Pamela Galli]

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Pixieplumb Flanagan wrote:

Blimey Quinn, did you STILL not find a 'woman in real life' to make sexeh with?  Get over it, and please try to realise that prostitution is entirely legal in many many countries around the world.  As it should be, cos, if it's ours, and we sell it, and we still have it, well, pretty good business, I'd say.  man up, chap.

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Except he makes it clear he wants it for free.

[Magnanimousity]

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Pixieplumb Flanagan wrote:

ffs, so, if this bothers you then AR it, report it.  If it remains, LL are OK with it.  That's the end of it, whatever Mag and Prok think.  

Since I assume you HAVE reported/AR'd this, and since you both still seem awfully cross, I guess LL didn't act.  So, pull up your big girl panties and deal.

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I'm not cross, my original question that inspired this thread was just asking if it was worth doing AR reports for these kinds of things or not, and people seem to be misunderstanding why exactly I'm upset about it so I've been trying to clarify. I don't want to waste Linden Lab's time with AR reports that won't go through, that's why I was asking about the policies.

(Also I'm a guy, nice assumption there  )

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

Oh I just assume people are female as there are more of us and it's the human default.  But by all means pull up your big boy panties instead

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

(reply in general, not to Pixie....)

Maybe there needs to be a bit more awareness and understanding on both sides of this issue.

Certain subcultures include adults who choose to emphasize traits and features commonly associated with youth or androgyny. It's part of their aesthetic and they read it as an adult role within their subculture.

People outside of these subcultures aren't always familiar with these aesthetics and quite naturally read these appearances as underaged. Some of us have other reasons as well, like the years I spent in a job which involved child protection concerns. It really doesn't say anything about my sexuality when my brain thinks "vulnerable young person" on seeing an avatar with many physical traits of a 15 year old wearing a sexualised outfit. And I do think the avatar in two of the ads given as an example has many physical traits of a 15 year old. (Muscle tone maybe a bit older, face definitely younger, proportions about 15. See the chart given a few pages back for proportions at that age.)

Both of these groups are thrown in together in situations like the marketplace or forums. That is going to create confusion, misunderstanding and reactions.

Being able to repurpose items originally created for one age group to another adds to these problems. The mesh body in question was apparently created for kids. Put a different skin on it and change the sliders and it fits the aesthetics for adults in a subculture who are choosing to emphasize traits and features commonly associated with youth or androgny. It's serving two purposes, which is great. Except that sexualised items made for that mesh body and legitimately intended for adults can also be repurposed in ways which are illegal and against ToS.

I don't know what we can do about that unless the mesh body creators are able to put lower limits on height and such or build adult specific physical traits directly into the mesh. Or maybe it would help to just have mesh bodies designed specifically for that market so there's less repurposing of bodies intended for underaged kids.

I do think that there is plenty of room for people involved in those young-appearing subcultures to make their intended purposes clearer on a very public, open to all marketplace. Two of the ads given as examples include the wording "For boys with female based shapes". Why not change that to something like "For male adults with female based shapes" instead? Even "male avatars" would be better than boys, which has a very clear meaning of underaged for the majority of people.

Basically, I'm suggesting that creators who are making things for these subcultures take a moment to step back and look at their ads from the point of view of a mainstream person who stumbles into it not knowing. Mainstream folks need to be a bit more understanding sometimes, but those involved in the subcultures do as well. If they don't provide enough information for a random passerby to grasp that there's something different going on, they can't really get upset when said passerby interprets it in ways other than intended.

[Rufferta]

A well-written and well-thought-out response. Thank you!

[Perrie Juran]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

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Pixieplumb Flanagan wrote:

Blimey Quinn, did you STILL not find a 'woman in real life' to make sexeh with?  Get over it, and please try to realise that prostitution is entirely legal in many many countries around the world.  As it should be, cos, if it's ours, and we sell it, and we still have it, well, pretty good business, I'd say.  man up, chap.

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Except he makes it clear he wants it for free.

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Ruth Brown has a reply for him. 

[Pamela Galli]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pamela Galli wrote:

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Pixieplumb Flanagan wrote:

Blimey Quinn, did you STILL not find a 'woman in real life' to make sexeh with?  Get over it, and please try to realise that prostitution is entirely legal in many many countries around the world.  As it should be, cos, if it's ours, and we sell it, and we still have it, well, pretty good business, I'd say.  man up, chap.

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Except he makes it clear he wants it for free.

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Ruth Brown has a reply for him. 

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I have a new theme song!

[Magnanimousity]

That was a very well thought out response, thank you.

I'll be clear here: I'm at least somewhat involved in both communities in this discussion. I'm a gay man, I'm very familiar with what makes a twink or a femboy, I was very breifly involved in SL femboy groups a couple years ago. However, I'm also involved in kid roleplay communities both on and off SL for many personal reasons, mainly involving childhood abuse that I'd rather not go into detail on.

Being in both groups as well as being an abuse survivor makes me hypervigilant about any potentially pedophilic content. Gay men have had a long running stigma of being percieved as pedos, child roleplayers are often accused of being pedos even if nothing even vaguely suggests it. Stuff like bondage gear for a mesh body that's intended to be a child (even if it's being used to make an adult avatar) hurts the communities on a base level because it strengthens that pedophilic tie to both.

I'm not telling people not to use the SMB body to make adult avatars if they so wish, but y'all also have to realize that it is intended as a child body, that's what many people use it for, and without context that what you're making is supposed to be for the people who use it as an adult, it looks extremely bad for everyone involved. People will see it as a child avatar before seeing it as a femboy if they're familiar with the brand of body.

[Prokofy Neva]

Child porn is big business in SL, that's why it's hard to eradicate.

Everyone knows SMB = child. It's not rocket science. Drop in at any Zindra club and you'll get it. The ads say it all. All the word-salading going on here about how it's for slender people or females or fembois or whatever is just so much distraction. 

So AR it. I've found that child porn ARs in SL usually go *nowhere*. The notorious Hentai that is so hideous and vulgar and so clearly a child that forcibly opens up in search as an event if you have adult checked off is case and point. I've AR'd it a 100 times. It is child porn. It goes away for awhile, then comes back.

As I said, too many people have content empires including in this thread that hang on this to eradicate it, there is no will.

But AR anyway, and then move on. 

[sirhc DeSantis]

With respect, although I do not have your long term experience, I have to disagree with the effectiveness of reporting this...subject. I have filed 5 ARs on this and the response has been fast and effective in all five cases.

This is one area I feel that the Lab do take it seriously, where (emphasis mine) it is merited.

So yes - if someone thinks it deserves it, the AR process is there.

 

[Kyrah Abattoir]

Soo, I figured I'd step in (probably a terrible idea, considering the audience), but where I live, the criterias of whether something is child pornography or not, it's not just the proportions, or just the signs of puberty, or just the demeanor, it's a whole set of things, but more importantly, it is left to the apreciation of a judge in a court of law.

Not you, or me, and especially not bat**bleep** insane ranting oldbies.

[Talligurl]

but what is the girl lives in Nevada where it is legal?

[Alwin Alcott]

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Talligurl wrote:

but what is the girl lives in Nevada where it is legal?

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what happens in Nevada should stay in Nevada and not be available for other who don't want that crap.

It's really sick the forums are filled with it in all sections.

 

It should be handled as the gaming sims...  no acces and no visibility, but for this content, as a setting, not rl region restrictions.

[Conall DeCuir]

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

 

It should be handled as the gaming sims...  no acces and no visibility, but for this content, as a setting, not rl region restrictions.

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I agree with this absolutely and i would think, people who are into it will have a much more pleasing time would they know they are surrounded by likeminded people only, except their purpose was and is to force their kinks selfishly onto just everyone.