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Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world


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With hindsight being 20-20, if the announcement had been that Linden Labs was creating a version of SL to work fantastically on tablets and smartphones, this forum topic would be at most 5 pages with 99% positive replies.The problem is that at least here in the US, we no longer trust anyone to do something that is for our mutual benefit. I have looked ALOT in the past couple of days for something that is at least half as good as what Second Life is now and there is nothing. I am interested in an environment that will run on my desktop (not a tablet or a smartphone) but if you want to try to capture a piece of that market, it makes smart business sense to me. But speaking for myself, I am not interested in those platforms. So when Linden Labs drops the meteor someday on Second Life, I will be one of those dinosaurs that is made extinct. But until then, I intend to stay

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Gavin Hird wrote:

If you are the creator of the animations and don't have the bvh files any more, there is an option to still get them out which goes like this:

 
  1. Back up the animation with Stored Inventory to your local harddisk
  2. Restore the animations from Stored Inventory to a server running opensim
  3. From there you can use tools to restore the bvh

If you don't own the animations you are out of luck...

Ah, the backup functionality is a firestorm feature, isnt it ? Then we already have the technical ability to get access to the data... I thought that animations are always stored in the internal .anim format. So i wonder ...

@Drake1 btw i realy do not need answers right away. It is perfect to get them when its time. And i just got an idea that i can work on right away :matte-motes-evil:

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Mony Lindman wrote:


And yes i do want to "make things in the next gen product" , the question is if i can use my thousands of full permission animations for which i paid a lot of money, ALSO IN THOSE THINGS that i will want to make in THAT "next gen product".

And this question is still NOT answered.

 

yes he did answer already

he said we looking at how animations will be done in the betterworld. We/LL havent decided yet. Some assets from SL will be transferable to betterworld. We/LL havent decided what they all are yet. So please hold until we/LL do decide

in the meantime please to continue using animations (and every other asset) in SL as you have been already

+

what you want to know is: will I have to re-import the animations I do have now into the Betterworld myself, or will LL do this automagically for me?

answer: Dunno yet. We/LL havent decided on the animation format yet. When we/LL do then you will know. Until then please hold for a definitive answer on that and please carry on in SL as you have been already

 

 

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"If you don't own the animations you are out of luck..."

No. Even not if there will be a new asset server system. Inventory to Inventory conversions aren´t rocket science, just more costy for the Lab. But then: If they want people to populate their new world, then they should take care that they do this for some reasons. Less lag and better functionality without available content isn´t a promising perspective.

IIt could (!) be that the real trouble is not the format change or conversion, but the method animations are planned to work in the new environment ("sit on something", "sit target", "attachment", "avatar offsets"). If this will change per se, any animation ever made for Second Life will not work in the new environment. This would be REAL trouble. But that´s speculative.

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WickedWanda1956 wrote:

The problem is that at least here in the US, we no longer trust anyone to do something that is for our mutual benefit.

This explains a lot and I can't say that I blame you for being so skeptical... I try not to be, but it ain't easy.

...Dres

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Ebbe Linden wrote:


kiramanell wrote:


Ebbe Linden wrote:


So you assume we could have the same amount of resources regardless of how hard it is to compete or that all projects are equal in potential value? Working on some products have much higher cost and lower return on investment than others. 

I appreciate a reply from the man himself, but I honestly don't know what you mean, here. I was pretty much just saying that being able to import half-a-home is, effectively, the same as not being able to import it at all. And thus, realistically, that I can forget about ever being able to port my many homes to SL2.

Unless you tell me I am wrong, of course (please, tell me I am wrong, LOL).

hmm, maybe i responded to another thread? 

To another thread even?! No offense, but I feel now you're just trolling me.

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Most companies release new all the time and we all know in an age of technology the next big thing is already in dev . Thank goodness for that. It's not a consipracy , its .....life.

 

They do this to survive. They do this to make money. LIKE any other business in the world. Moving forward or die.

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As for scripts, why can't we just have the Matrix 2.0 server run LSL 'Mono' next to whatever there will be in SL2? I mean, 'Mono' has been running concurrently next to LSL2 too, for years.

I'm talking about a grace period maybe, of at least a year, so builders and scripters (like yours truly) can be in-world, inside SL2, and start converting stuff. I say 'inside SL2' on purpose, as inevitably much testing will need to be done in the live new environment.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Ebbe Linden wrote:


DesperadoReprise wrote:


Innula Zenovka wrote:

Of course they don't have any plans to disallow ageplay of the sort you describe.   They disallowed it seven or eight years ago, and people don't normally talk about making plans to do something they've already done.    

 

But Ebbe has comitted here in these forums very recently that Sanitised Life will allow user freedoms as long as they are legal.

And depiction of sexual age-play is not illegal in California, with whose laws LL has to comply.

Is he lying, inconsistent, or incompetent?

"it's finally turned the tables"

I said: 

We have no plans to disallow anything that's going on in SL and is legal. We're proud of the freedom we offer. 

rather than "...going on in SL..." I could have said "...adheres to SL policy..."

So now you can have fun with that for a while...

Rather than replying to the troll just ignore him.. All you are doing with the snide replies is making the rest of us not believe you. Lose the snide comments.

How about a straight answer. Why did you announce this when you have almost zero info you can give the people that pay your salary? 99.999% of what you have answered is TBD. That is not an informative answer, so why leak this? You created FUD and are really doing nothing to fight it. You have yet to make any official announcement on any LL site that I have found. Way to garner support and trust. LL used to send announcements through SL itself. Haven't seen one fo those in years. Now we get info about a new SL from a whispered rumor via a third party site from a blogger.. Why that specific blogger? Why didn't you come here and let us know? Why, Ebbe? Answer that if you have the chutzpa.

This reminds me of that wonderful scene in Airplane . . .

"will you try to find your seats"

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

Alright Ebbe, I've been reading a whole hell of a lot of what other people have been writing about this (what I consider to be) exciting development and, after careful consideration, have come up with the one thing which would make my migration to this new platform extremely uncomfortable.

Of course, I only speak for myself when I say this, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who would feel this way... I know that you've already said that it's important that we're able to transfer our identity to the new world, but my identity, for me, is more than just my name or friend list or inventory or $L balance.

This is me...
Profile_03-11-2014_02_SLF.png

This is what represents me in the virtual world.  This is the image which I've created over the last almost six years by tweaking my shape and carefully choosing elements created by others.  I may not be much of an original content creator, but I assure you that putting this avatar together was definitely an exercise in creativity.

I love my SL home and my SL land; I adore the people on my friend list and I treasure many of the things in my inventory, but none of them compare to the emotional investment in which I've made to my avatar.

I've been to other virtual worlds... Inworldz, Open Sim, Cloud Party, Blue Mars... I just never felt comfortable there for the simple fact that I couldn't look anything like what I thought of as myself.  Could I have gotten over it, had I have given myself a chance to do so?... possibly.  But, I'm more than certain that, should I had been able to enter those new worlds in a form with which I was familiar and emotionally invested, I probably wouldn't have left them as quickly as I did and would have, at least, tried to judge them on thier own merit once I got there, rather than have left them because I simply couldn't connect with my avatar the way I do in SL.  Emotions can be a very powerful motivation.

If you ask me, emotional investment is the very thing that has enabled Linden Lab to keep SL alive for as long as it has.  My suggestion to you would be to capitalize on the emotional investment of your users by pandering to it.

With that in mind, here's my idea... make legacy avatars portable to the new platform from the get go.  That way, it creates the illusion of using one's current SL avatar to explore the new world as their old avatar self.... in which they've got an emotional investment.  Yes, I'm suggesting that you enable the use of the old antiquated avatar base in the new world... yeah, it's ugly... but it's familiar.  And, if your new avatar system is so much better (which I'm sure it will be), I'm certain that people will start adopting it in droves, once they get there and can see the difference.  Why else would mesh body parts be such the rage nowadays?

...Dres

 

Very good point.

I'm not sure exactly how long it was after I started that I first customized my Ava, maybe a month or so.  I had been friended / adopted by a small group of who had migrated to SL from Myst Online (Uru).  They gifted me several thousand $L's for the purpose of fixing up my Ava.  I spent the next three days shopping for a shape and skin.  My representation of myself was important to me.

A couple of years later friends started bugging me to "upgrade" my skin.  On my third rez day I was gifted $Ls again for this purpose and the search for a better skin began.  That took me two weeks because I did not want to change my essential appearance.  I finally found a skin that did the trick and I was a very happy camper.

Ebbe, for many of us this is a very big deal.  If I should choose to move to the New World, it would not be with the intent of changing my identity.  And a big part of it is how I look.  I'm sure there will be people who will look at it as a way to start all over.  People do that all the time now, create new accounts from scratch and leave the past behind.  But for me, I have no desire to do this.

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Ebbe Linden wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:


Ebbe Linden wrote:


Racheal Rexen wrote:

Hello Ebbe, thanks for taking the time to answer ours questions, My question is if the Adult Community will have a place in the new Virtual world? 

We have no plans to disallow anything that's going on in SL and is legal. We're proud of the freedom we offer. 

 

Thanks! This is one of the questions I was going to ask.

I'm not, like many asking here, a landowner, and I haven't been a creator for 3 years or so (pre-mesh), so I'm more interested in the social dynamics, community, communications tools, and so forth. I'm sure some of these you are not going to be in a position to answer yet, but . . .

 

 
  • Following up on the answer above, do you see the Community Standards as remaining more or less stable?

    - just read them again. Seems reasonable to me...but way to early to be specific on something like this...
  • Will there still be free avatar accounts? (I assume that accounts will remain anomymous/pseudonymous.)

    -yes, that's what we're thinking
  • if there are free accounts, will there be limits on the number of accounts (I think there are, theoretically, now, but if so it isn't enforced).

    -we have some thoughts around this but too early to be clear on it
  • Will there be built-in viewer building tools for things like mesh, comparable to what currently exists for prims, so that more creation can be accomplished in-world?

    -we want to allow for inworld creation that's easy, and support high end external tools...but again, early days...
  • Will the new VW feature a version of the LEA, so that support will continue for the arts on the new grid (this is an important question for me).

    -has not been discussed, too early to know such details...but have nothing against it
  • The move to make the new world work for Oculus Rift notwithstanding, will the viewer UI continue to be relatively friendly and usable for those using more old-fashioned tech? (I.e., a mouse and keyboard)

    -yes
  • I am delighted and impressed by your answers here -- do you see other forms of consultation with residents in the future? And not just with the high-end land barons or content creators?

    -for sure we will include more and more people as we progress and have more details and product to show.

That's probably a good start . . . ;-)

 

Thanks for these responses! (And sorry for posting the questions again -- I managed to miss this reply somehow.)

These answers are encouraging: for the most part, the community and social tools in SL work pretty well, I think (although group tools could certainly be improved, and hopefully will be).

I am interested in the process that LL is undertaking, because it is my perception that, generally, software companies begin with code, and worry about the human and social implications of what they have created after the fact. It's a process that can have a tricky impact on UI, I think. Google seems particularly prone to this, but the SL Viewer 2 was another instance. So too, as I'm sure you've been reminded countless times, was the decision to get rid of last names, which has had an enormous impact on the way in which people conduct themselves and interact in-world.

I'm looking forward to watching how this unfolds!

 

ETA: Dres's post, above, is another good example of how what may seem like technical decisions can have real ramifications in terms of how people use the software -- and ultimately, for that reason, with how successful it is.

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Gaia Clary wrote:


Mony Lindman wrote:

Sir, with answers like this and the one to my previous post, you insult my intelligence. Not to mention yours..

The matter in question is the transfer and the use of present animations IN THE NEW WORLD, not if they work in the old one.

 

I would like to add some related questions:

 
  1. Are the Animations in the current SL extractable in principle ?
  2. Will LL give us tools at hand which allow us to extract the raw animation information from SL Gestures and SL Animations and export this data to our local disk ?
  3. I guess the animations in the current SL can be exported as .anim files ?
  4. Will LL describe the animation format in a way that we can transform the exported data into data conforming to the new system ?

Some previous answers gave me the impression that third party tool makers could in principle fill the gap here, provided they get the ability to access the data in which way ever. I believe the biggest problem here is related to license and permission...

I also believe that any animation that was created for the current SL Avatar can be migrated to another skeleton provided it is at least similar structured. so in principle i believe that a huge amount of existing animations actually CAN be migrated to any avatar that is based on a human skeleton.

Note that regarding SL animations we mostly speak about the 26 SL Base Bones which form a pretty simple base skeleton. attachment point animations might be an issue, and weighted attachment points are imho a corner case as they have never been officially suported by SL.

Heh, you have given me a few ideas already where we can possibly chime in when it's time  :matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

There are 3 different kind of animations in SL:

1 - animations made by animators, uploaded by them in SL and sitting in their inventory. These are as well full permissions as also have the creator's name as creator. And most animators also have them as bvh files on their HD. The animators have many options to move these anims to the new world, including re-upload from their HD and conversion to other formats if needed and if possible.

2 - animations sold with full permissions by some of the animators to builders and sitting in the builder's inventory. These are full permissions but the original creator name appears as creator. The builders can use these anims in their items and resell them but they don't have them as bvh files on their HD nor can they legally bring them there , not even with such tools as Scond Inventory, because this works only for items where the owner is also the creator. And this is not the case for this category. Therefore the builders can also not re-upload them in the new world, because they dont have them on HD. These anims can only be moved by LL to the new world (and if needed, converted) along with the other inventory items that can be moved (if any).

3 - animations with either no copy or no transfer permissions (therefore NOT full perm) sold either by the animators directly , as animations or in scripted balls , or by any of the builders who bought them full perm and now resel them NOT full perm in their builds to normal users and sitting in the user's inventory. And there is nothing that these end users can do themselves to move them in the new world.

There should be no copyright or TOS problem for LL to move any of these animations , preserving their permissions as they are to the new world since, as it appears from Ebbe's statement ("TOS should be no problem") the SL2 grid is to be considered as the SAME grid for such matters , so the TOS of the animators to which the builderss are bound and which prohibits the use of the full perm animations in "other grids" would not apply in this case. And the not full permission animations or animated items of the 3rd category should be dealt with in the same way in which any other inventory item will be dealt with.

The question however still remains : are these animations in their original format or converted to another format of ANY USE AT ALL in the new world?

 

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You know as much as part of me is out of step with your sentiment (I have been many places and while I try to look "sort of" like me it is not a deal breaker by many means and my alt looks completely different in different worlds with no problem at all; less emotional investment I guess) --- I DO think you have a very good point.

 

For some of us the viewer may be the deal breaker, for some it will be moving virtual good or getting our PRODUCTS over to the new world easily -- but for many folks it will be as you say.

Your thought really IS something to consider.

And it did give me something to think about on a personal level. I have started over many times in many worlds. I actually like the exercise, but most of those worlds had no costs involved in uploading and that WOULD make a bid difference in what I would move should I have to do it myself (I doubt this will be the final plan for so many reasons).

 

I am personally very glad they we do not make an either or decision. Both sounds like a good plan to me. 

 

So for me it is.

1.viewer capabilitys and features - as many options and power as possible with the features many of us use daily and feel we cannot live without

2. portability especially of our own creations at no additional costs to ourselves.

3. Self image - I would like to look a BIT like Chic if possible and I suspect it will be.

 

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