Safe Hubs = Unsafe Hubs?

[RachelWales]

18 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

I never said anyone should accept harassment. I was talking about statistics. Like...you can't create a place where you will never ever run the risk of encountering harassment or hate speech or aynthing offensive. As soon as you let people in, there is a chance for that. 

What should that lawsuit be about? Who should ever start it and based on what laws?

Hate speech is still protected in the United States but many international internet companies have agreed to do something since laws do vary internationally. There may come a day when LL will have to do something about it. Personally I have de rendered individuals partaking in this kind of conduct. Since Second Life is international in scope, I really think it should be more pro-active on this issue.

"Internet

Main article: Online hate speech

On May 31, 2016, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Twitter, jointly agreed to a European Union code of conduct obligating them to review "[the] majority of valid notifications for removal of illegal hate speech" posted on their services within 24 hours.^[105]

Prior to this in 2013, Facebook, with pressure from over 100 advocacy groups including the Everyday Sexism Project, agreed to change their hate speech policies after data released regarding content that promoted domestic and sexual violence against women led to the withdrawal of advertising by 15 large companies.^[106][107]

Many extremist organizations^[which?] disseminate hate speech by publishing posts that act as prompts. Content analysis algorithms catch obvious hate speech but cannot pick up covert hate speech. Therefore, though an original post may technically adhere to hate speech policy, the ideas the post conveys prompts readers to use the comment section to spread overt hate speech. These sections are not monitored as heavily as main posts.^[108]""

[Lyssa Greymoon]

Safe hubs seem to be a mix of bots standing around when they relog after a crash and people who hang out there all the time talking to each other in the voice enabled ones. You can probably stand around acting like a bot for hours and no one will notice.

[RachelWales]

47 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

I never said anyone should accept harassment. I was talking about statistics. Like...you can't create a place where you will never ever run the risk of encountering harassment or hate speech or aynthing offensive. As soon as you let people in, there is a chance for that. 

What should that lawsuit be about? Who should ever start it and based on what laws?

And as for states of undress. Whether private or public I've never been expelled for being nude by mistake. If I insist on being nude in a general or moderate Sim then I can expect action on it then.

[RachelWales]

1 minute ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Safe hubs seem to be a mix of bots standing around when they relog after a crash and people who hang out there all the time talking to each other in the voice enabled ones. You can probably stand around acting like a bot for hours and no one will notice.

I've noticed that there are an awful lot of bodies and no one is talking You see the teleport area and bodies are piling in.

And I have stood around as an object of some type and no one notices because often times no one is really there....LOL

[Orwar]

59 minutes ago, RachelWales said:

Harassment in my mind is hate speech whether it be against women, minorities or those with different sexual preferences.

   That's a pretty narrow and squiggly definition of 'harassment'. Good thing your opinion and the actual rules are two very different things.

[Beth Macbain]

I've never been to a safe hub! You're saying I can get sexually harassed at one? For free? LM, please!

[RachelWales]

30 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   That's a pretty narrow and squiggly definition of 'harassment'. Good thing your opinion and the actual rules are two very different things.

Don't think so. If it's unprovoked and you are called something derogatory or accosted by a group of people, it's harassment. Plain and simple.

Edited December 12, 2019 by RachelWales

[RachelWales]

6 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I've never been to a safe hub! You're saying I can get sexually harassed at one? For free? LM, please!

Go ahead. If you ask for it, it's consensual. If not, it's unwelcome and it's harassment. Okay?

[Orwar]

Just now, RachelWales said:

Don't think so. If it's unprovoked and you are called something derogatory or accosted by a group of people, it's harassment.

   See, that's a much broader, but still not completely accurate definition. Harassment isn't necessarily a group activity. And sometimes, calling someone something derogatory, or accosting them, isn't considered harassment (i.e. when it's in response to something they said or did).

[Beth Macbain]

2 minutes ago, RachelWales said:

Go ahead. If you ask for it, it's consensual. If not, it's unwelcome and it's harassment. Okay?

Are you unable to hit the X  in the upper right corner of your screen? 

Logging into SL is consensual. 

[Maitimo]

2 hours ago, RachelWales said:

So it's the hapless person who gets diverted to Safe Hub or the resident without a home that has to alter their experience on Second Life in order to avoid this type of thing instead of there being some type of supervision or moderation on these Linden Parcels. They are supposed to be open to everyone and free to use by everyone not just the script kiddies. I'm an average resident and I can't even run simple scripts (dance hud) on these parcels and yet all this is going on unchecked.

Linden Lab can only moderate when someone submits an Abuse Report. It likely won't be dealt with quickly enough to stop it happenning at the time, but if the TOS is being broken, they will eventually act on it.

In the meantime, yes, it is 100% your own responsibility to keep yourself safe. If you don't feel safe at the adult ones, try setting home in a moderate one. Or join one of the newbie groups and set home on their land. Both the Firestorm Gateway and the Shelter have "set home here" spots, and the land in both of these places is moderated. There are plenty of others too. Just look in Search for "Set Home spot".

 

[RachelWales]

1 hour ago, cheesecurd said:

Nothing, nobody, and there are no laws on it.

SL for all legal purposes is private and has their own rules, and as such the users are not protected under any hate speech or discrimination laws so long as LL isn’t actively endorsing it themselves.

If this was a child safe platform it may fall under those laws but SL is definitely not going to be COPPA compliant any time soon.

 

So I guess TOS is only there in name only and there is absolutely no reason to put this in writing whether or not there are children involved? Why bother with a TOS then?

"6.1 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights.

You agree that you will not:

(i) Post, display, or transmit Content that violates any law or the rights of any third party, including without limitation Intellectual Property Rights. We reserve the right to request at any time proof of permissions in a form acceptable to us. Failure to provide such proof may lead to, among other things, removal of such Content from the Service;

(ii) Impersonate any person or entity without their consent, or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation, or if you are an adult, impersonate a minor for the purpose of interacting with a minor using the Service;

(iii) Stalk, harass, or engage in any sexual, suggestive, lewd, lascivious, or otherwise inappropriate conduct with minors on the Service;

(iv) Post, display, or transmit Content (including any communication(s) with employees of Linden Lab) that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy;

(v) Post, display, or transmit Content that is obscene, hateful, involves terrorism, or is racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable; or

(vi) Post, display or transmit any Content or conduct or host any activity that is sexually explicit, or intensely violent.

Any violation by you of the terms of this Section may result in immediate termination of your Accounts without any refund or other compensation."

[Maitimo]

3 minutes ago, RachelWales said:

So I guess TOS is only there in name only and there is absolutely no reason to put this in writing whether or not there are children involved? Why bother with a TOS then?

"6.1 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights.

You agree that you will not:

(i) Post, display, or transmit Content that violates any law or the rights of any third party, including without limitation Intellectual Property Rights. We reserve the right to request at any time proof of permissions in a form acceptable to us. Failure to provide such proof may lead to, among other things, removal of such Content from the Service;

(ii) Impersonate any person or entity without their consent, or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation, or if you are an adult, impersonate a minor for the purpose of interacting with a minor using the Service;

(iii) Stalk, harass, or engage in any sexual, suggestive, lewd, lascivious, or otherwise inappropriate conduct with minors on the Service;

(iv) Post, display, or transmit Content (including any communication(s) with employees of Linden Lab) that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy;

(v) Post, display, or transmit Content that is obscene, hateful, involves terrorism, or is racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable; or

(vi) Post, display or transmit any Content or conduct or host any activity that is sexually explicit, or intensely violent.

Any violation by you of the terms of this Section may result in immediate termination of your Accounts without any refund or other compensation."

If you see anyone breaking the TOS, submit an abuse report. Simple as that. Linden Lab will investigate what happened, using their own logs, and if someone did indeed break the TOS they will be banned 

[RachelWales]

9 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:

Linden Lab can only moderate when someone submits an Abuse Report. It likely won't be dealt with quickly enough to stop it happenning at the time, but if the TOS is being broken, they will eventually act on it.

In the meantime, yes, it is 100% your own responsibility to keep yourself safe. If you don't feel safe at the adult ones, try setting home in a moderate one. Or join one of the newbie groups and set home on their land. Both the Firestorm Gateway and the Shelter have "set home here" spots, and the land in both of these places is moderated. There are plenty of others too. Just look in Search for "Set Home spot".

 

When I first started talking about this issue, I was talking about how it would be for a new user to be teleported in an area where there are script kiddies, griefers, trolls etc. And this area does attract quite a number of them. I have blocked and de rendered them and it's a long list.

I know how to protect myself and will move freely in Second Life. If there is a chronic problem with this type of thing in a public area where anyone can be diverted and it's reported, the area should be looked at more closely. I don't need a newbie area but I do think that if this kind of thing is going on, for the sake of new users, it should be cleaned up.

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by RachelWales

[RachelWales]

2 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

But he is correct in his interpretation, where as yours is more a long the lines of "I wish it would mean that".

Yes, there might be sims, that also allow you to show up naked, but they are in private ownership. You need to know the place, to know its specific rules. And even they, those rules could change on a whim or the place itself just vanishes. Freedom from harassment can't be guaranteed anywhere on SL, as soon as you have the potential chance of encountering another person. 

I'm not saying the threads should be deleted (never mentioned to terminate the entire forum), but locked down, so people can't comment.

Have to agree to disagree on people not being able to comment. If this has been going on for years, then the issue isn't closed

[RachelWales]

25 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Are you unable to hit the X  in the upper right corner of your screen? 

Logging into SL is consensual. 

Harassment, pushing, bullying is not. And there is a TOS that addresses this. Pretty simplistic there.

[Beth Macbain]

17 minutes ago, RachelWales said:

Harassment, pushing, bullying is not. And there is a TOS that addresses this. Pretty simplistic there.

Then use the tools to report the people who are doing the harassing. Pretty simplistic there. 

[RachelWales]

On 3/23/2014 at 2:55 PM, Sassy Romano said:

---

Exavor Diesel wrote:

 

 

Why can't LL do more to combat griefers? Not only is it a major annoyance, it can also be very costly too! Now I need to buy a new graphics card before it dies completely. 

 

 

---

 

It should be capable of running flat out all day long with proper cooling.  If it's not capable of that then it's not fit for purpose. 

Blame the victim. It's the computer's fault that it freezes up because of excessive particles. I know how this thread will go

[RachelWales]

52 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   See, that's a much broader, but still not completely accurate definition. Harassment isn't necessarily a group activity. And sometimes, calling someone something derogatory, or accosting them, isn't considered harassment (i.e. when it's in response to something they said or did).

If it's unprovoked and you haven't done anything to the individual/individuals involved? Anyhow, I know how this thread is going, it's pretty obvious.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

I've never been to a safe hub! You're saying I can get sexually harassed at one? For free? LM, please!

Just type nelsonia or arapaima in the location bar and prepare for disappointment. 

Arapaima seems to be full of refugees from the Korea hub after the lab turned voice off there, so it's hard to get in anymore.

[HeathcliffMontague]

7 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

HOLY 5 YEAR OLD THREAD BATMAN !!!

But still apparently kinda relevant, from what I'm reading here

[Syo Emerald]

5 minutes ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

But still apparently kinda relevant, from what I'm reading here

Are many info hubs and safe hubs still bad places to voluntarly hangout for extended periods of time? Probably yes.

Was the resurrection of this thread beneficial to the problem or gave further insight into the problem or its current state? No, its devolving into unorganized venting and ranting.

[cheesecurd]

59 minutes ago, RachelWales said:

Blame the victim. It's the computer's fault that it freezes up because of excessive particles. I know how this thread will go

To be fair if you’re running hardware that can be damaged by excessive use then it’s because you haven’t maintained your hardware.

Video cards are designed to be tapped out, they won’t overheat or damage themselves if they’re able to cool themselves properly. If particles in SL cause your gpu to suffer actual damage then you need to clean your PC more often and address the airflow in the case.

Thermal protection and active clock management has been a thing since... I think the FX series of Nvidia cards, 2003? So literally SL’s introduction.

So yes, in that case it is the victims fault. The people who would do that are assholes but if you’re actually affected by it there were like, 10 things to do to avoid that entirely.

And again on the law thing to summarize, SL has a policy for it, but it’s not illegal. Technically someone could set up a virtual KKK rally and it’s entirely legal so long as Linden Labs doesn’t endorse or promote it,  but they also don’t have to actually do anything about it. Of course they don’t allow it because that’s not something anyone wants on SL but it wouldn’t be illegal.

[Love Zhaoying]

This thread has me..

[Janet Voxel]