Suggesting a change to one's avatar

[Ranyart]

I kind of feel a little shallow to be even asking for input on this but I was wondering if any of you have any suggestions for ways to bring up the subject of avatar appearance with someone  who is close to you.

I adore my sl mate and the best looking avi in sl is nothing without someone of character behind it. But I do like attention to detail and though she has been in sl over 6 months she wears those freebie shoes with the distorted feet and an avi that I think is also a freebie and doesn't do her justice. But something like one's avi is such a personal choice that I don't ever want to take a chance of offending her or have her think she is anything but number one in my eyes. And I honestly don't know it her choice is the one she felt the most connection with or simply the least unattractive one in a pile of free skins.

It's not a great big deal. And the visual is not super important, but I can't deny that it would be nice to see her avi looking a little closer to the wonderful woman she really is. I bought her a very nice gown and then suggested we need to get her new shoes to go with it but she just changed to another pair of those horrible freebie ones. So far the subtle approach isn't working.... grins.

We talk freely about everything and a more understanding person I have yet to meet. I'm sure I'm being overly cautious about this but would appreciate any feedback on ways to bring up the subject.

[Syo Emerald]

I know what you mean, but there are people around in SL who lack of taste or simply don't care at all about how they look and what message that sends to others. Some may not even realize how bad they look.

I don't think their is a good way around that. Covering your attempt to polish her look hasn't helped...so I bet its time for the truth. Bring that topic clearly on the table. Maybe ask her why she loves those shoes so much or if she never feels another skin would suit her much better. If I would be in your situation I would be just honest.

[Malanya]

I wouldn't bring it up at all. You like attention to detail and that's fine, but that's not what apparently made you fall for her in the first place. No matter how close you are and what you both talk about, saying something about your dislikes about her av would be rude IMO.

I am articulate about my av but the people I am close to and the man I share sl with are people not av's to me and the way they represent themselves here has absolutely nothing to do with who they are inside, the reason I care about all of them. I don't pick apart those I care about in RL or SL because I accept people the way they are in both worlds.

If it's not a great big deal, why did you post? Because it's heavy on your mind. Re-evaluate your relationship and try and recall what attracted you to her. Let her change of her own free will.

Talking freely and saying something about someone's personal self are 2 very different things.

[Malanya]

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I know what you mean, but there are people around in SL who lack of taste or simply don't care at all about how they look and what message that sends to others. Some may not even realize how bad they look.

I don't think their is a good way around that. Covering your attempt to polish her look hasn't helped...so I bet its time for the truth. Bring that topic clearly on the table. Maybe ask her why she loves those shoes so much or if she never feels another skin would suit her much better. If I would be in your situation I would be just honest.

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Are you serious?? What makes you think your taste is the baseline of what looks good? I can't believe some of the things that people actually say here.

[Syo Emerald]

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Malanya wrote:

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I know what you mean, but there are people around in SL who lack of taste or simply don't care at all about how they look and what message that sends to others. Some may not even realize how bad they look.

I don't think their is a good way around that. Covering your attempt to polish her look hasn't helped...so I bet its time for the truth. Bring that topic clearly on the table. Maybe ask her why she loves those shoes so much or if she never feels another skin would suit her much better. If I would be in your situation I would be just honest.

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Are you serious?? What makes you think your taste is the baseline of what looks good? I can't believe some of the things that people actually say here.

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Yes, I'm deadily serious. Chose a corner, sit down and cry because of that, if you want to. Its my opinion that some people have no taste and that others simply don't care about their look.

But I bet you are one of these people who would lie till the end just to be polite. Its not like I'm screaming in their face that I think they lack of a look in the mirror, but I think I deserve the right to have an opinion about it. If they ask me, I won't lie.

I'm not the person encourageing overweight girls in to wear tight pants and miniskirts and I'm also not the person telling someone they look great with 2006-freebies.

edit: It isn't rude to suggest new shoes, its more rude to lie. I can really talk to her in a nice and open way. If she says she is aware that its probably newbish, but she likes it, she can keep wearing them. And he will finally have peace to know that he doesn't need to do any shopping trips with her.

[Summer Tison]

I also wouldn't say anything, if you had seen some of the things my ex used to wear :smileyvery-happy:...but that's what made me love him all the more, because he didn't care, all he cared about was the time we shared together, chatting, laughing and just being himself.

I'm ultra picky about my avatar but that's my issue, personally I couldn't care less what anyone else wears, be it freebie skin, clothes, whatever...we are all individuals here and I love that.

[Malanya]

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Syo Emerald wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I know what you mean, but there are people around in SL who lack of taste or simply don't care at all about how they look and what message that sends to others. Some may not even realize how bad they look.

I don't think their is a good way around that. Covering your attempt to polish her look hasn't helped...so I bet its time for the truth. Bring that topic clearly on the table. Maybe ask her why she loves those shoes so much or if she never feels another skin would suit her much better. If I would be in your situation I would be just honest.

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Are you serious?? What makes you think your taste is the baseline of what looks good? I can't believe some of the things that people actually say here.

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Yes, I'm deadily serious. Chose a corner, sit down and cry because of that, if you want to. Its my opinion that some people have no taste and that others simply don't care about their look.

But I bet you are one of these people who would lie till the end just to be polite. Its not like I'm screaming in their face that I think they lack of a look in the mirror, but I think I deserve the right to have an opinion about it.

If they ask me

, I won't lie.

I'm not the person encourageing overweight girls in to wear tight pants and miniskirts and I'm also not the person telling someone they look great with 2006-freebies.

edit: It isn't rude to suggest new shoes, its more rude to lie. I can really talk to her in a nice and open way. If she says she is aware that its probably newbish, but she likes it, she can keep wearing them. And he will finally have peace to know that he doesn't need to do any shopping trips with her.

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Sorry Syo, I don't need to choose a corner and sit down and cry, I have no need to. You can have your opinion and be quiet about it, that's just common decency. You deserve all the rights you feel in your head on how to treat others, that's your problem. Why is it your business if some people don't care what they look like?

No I don't lie to people and I don't lie to people if they ASK my opinion. There is a difference between shoving someone's belief of a "good look" in their face and giving an honest opinion if they want your advice.

^^ read what I bolded that quotes you. I guess I am just not vain.

[Malanya]

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Summer Tison wrote:

I also wouldn't say anything, if you had seen some of the things my ex used to wear :smileyvery-happy:...but that's what made me love him all the more, because he didn't care, all he cared about was the time we shared together, chatting, laughing and just being himself.

I'm ultra picky about my avatar but that's my issue, personally I couldn't care less what anyone else wears, be it freebie skin, clothes, whatever...we are all individuals here and I love that.

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Exactly

[Ranyart]

Thanks for the input so far. And yes, even though I posted to ask for input it is not really a big deal to me. As I said what is behind the avi is one of the most beautiful things in the world to me.

But also I can't help the fact that there are times when as a man I may have a different view than a woman, so views from a feminine perspective can be helpful as it has been here.

Strongly leaning toward just keeping my mouth shut. And dwelling on just how lucky I am to have her favor.....

Really appreciate the feedback. Thank you

[Summer Tison]

Ranyart..also..if she ever asks you do you like what she's wearing, tell her she looks beautiful, because we do not ask our men about fashion, we just want confirmation that they still adore us...if I want an opinion about clothes, shoes etc I'll ask another woman

[Czari Zenovka]

Malanya already touched on this a bit, but my first thought was - if her avatar appearance is bothering you, why did you partner her in the first place?  I agree with Malanya and others who regard people in SL as just that - people - not their avatars, so I do understand being attracted to the person behind the avatar but their choice of avatar isn't yours.

Example:  I enjoy having an attractive avatar, but taste is in the eye of the beholder. (Will address that in more detail in a moment.)  I date a guy in SL on and off (kind of an "When we're both on we go dancing" thing) who has been in SL since 2009.  He has a great job, has a great PC that he built himself, in fact his work is in the tech industry; however, for whatever reason this guy, to my knowledge, has never spent one linden in SL.  EVERYTHING he wears came from freebie stores.  Now that's a whole other issue as some freebie stores are better than others, and one can put together a very nice avatar from doing hunts.  His avatar overall looks decent, but he wears the same three outfits.  Even the gifts he has given to me are freebies.  Am I going to say anything? No, because I enjoy his company and while I wonder sometimes why he sticks to freebies...*he* is more important to me than his avatar.

As for saying something to your partner - I would strongly advise against it.  Back to the "eye of the beholder" thing - when I began SL in 2007 most of the avatars looked like they had spent way too much time in tanning booths to the point of just seeing the whites of their eyes.  I like my avatar to represent aspects of my RL appearance and in RL I have fair skin.  Back then it took a LOT of looking to find a lighter-skin that wasn't yellow or "Goth white" but finally found one that I loved.  I had a guy drop a freebie skin on me one day (my skin cost, at the time $1500L for ONE skin, not a pack) with an IM that said, "This skin will look better than that freebie one."  Ok, that did NOT go over well.  I regularly had people making comments that "I needed to get out in the sun more," etc.  Now, six years later, there are a lot of fair skins as well as "natural" ones ie. not with as heavy makeup.

Good luck!

[Dillon Levenque]

I'll just agree with something that has been mentioned a few times already. Your profile indicates you're a male in SL.

I'd expect telling your female SL partner she really needs to fix her look would go over just about as well as a male doing the same with a female RL partner—that is, not very.

[Kenbro Utu]

Perhaps wait for a special event, anniversary, etc.  Offer the gift of a shopping spree, maybe even for the both of you.  Make it a shared experience.  Of course, this advice is coming from a man, so in the eyes of a woman, it may still be off base...

[Syo Emerald]

I don't get why everyone here equals "talking about her look" with "saying she looks ugly". I mean...is it that much of a problem, if he asks her what she likes so much about these shoes and if she wouldn't like (insert random shoe here) instead?

If she says she likes it the way it is he shouldn't have a problem with that. But if she admits that she sure would like to get new shoes, its fine too. Maybe something keeps her away from buying new stuff?

I mean, we all started our SL looking different than now and I often remember people laughing, when they see old pictures of themselves and think "God, how could I walk around like that?" There was a time when I too thought I looked pretty after my first shopping trip at the Freebie Galaxy.

 

[Ranyart]

Lol... yep, I KNOW I'm keeping my mouth shut.

It's interesting that although I tried to be careful on my wording and kept saying how beautiful she is to me that several have interpeted it as "it is weighing on my mind" or wondering why I partnered in the first place. It shows that even when trying to be careful and considerate of anothers feelings things can be misunderstood or interpeted differently. Even by someone as intelligent as some of you responders here..... grins

I just have always hated those freebie shoes. I don't dwell on it, but every now and then when I can move my starstruck eyes from hers I notice them and had thought I might find a way to mention it. But I didn't get to live this long by making too many stupid comments to a lady ( no matter how well intentioned ) so my thought was to ask for some input. And again, many thanks to you that did.

And Summer, I appreciate the advise...... duly noted, lol

[Qie Niangao]

Wise decision.

... unless those freebie shoes also make the "clip clop" high-heel horsie clomping-around sound, in which case they really do need to be killed with fire.

Otherwise, unless she eventually develops an eye for the same detail you're seeing, it's smarter to focus yourself on that to which her attention is drawn. It'll be a lot more fun for both of you.

(There is also a chance that she prefers her current look. For example, some folks have a low Uncanny Valley threshold and consciously avoid a photorealistic look.)

[Czari Zenovka]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Wise decision.

... unless those freebie shoes also make the "clip clop" high-heel horsie clomping-around sound, in which case they really do need to be killed with fire.

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Oh gosh!  I am soooo glad that particular fad went away.  The funniest thing about those shoes was hearing that clip-clop sound while an avatar was walking in grass or sand. *Shakes head*

One of those, "You Know You've Spent Too Much Time in SL When..." moments:

I was out shopping in RL, had just gotten out of my car and was walking across the parking lot when I heard that high heel "click-click" sound.  My first thought was, "I really wish people would quit wearing those stupid shoes!" then looked behind me to see the bimbo woman who was wearing them....when it dawned on me that high heels on concrete DO make that noise.  :matte-motes-bashful-cute:  The woman gave me a bit of an odd look.  A brief thought of trying to explain SL and the high heels crossed my mind, but figured it would make the woman think I was loonier than she probably already did.

[Malanya]

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Syo Emerald wrote:

I don't get why everyone here equals "talking about her look" with "saying she looks ugly". I mean...is it that much of a problem, if he asks her what she likes so much about these shoes and if she wouldn't like (insert random shoe here) instead?

If she says she likes it the way it is he shouldn't have a problem with that. But if she admits that she sure would like to get new shoes, its fine too. Maybe something keeps her away from buying new stuff?

I mean, we all started our SL looking different than now and I often remember people laughing, when they see old pictures of themselves and think "God, how could I walk around like that?" There was a time when I too thought I looked pretty after my first shopping trip at the Freebie Galaxy.

 

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You don't get it maybe because it wasn't about "Asking" It was about telling someone that the OP didn't like the look of his partner. It would be classless to say to her "Oh by the way, you know I think you could do better with different hair, shoes, clothes, etc" something to that effect.

Maybe something does keep her away from buying new stuff and maybe she doesn't want to share that with her partner for any valid reason. It's always good to be able to look at ourselves and be able to laugh, but not to pick apart someone else when they didn't ask for an opinion and possibly hurt their feelings about the look they chose. I am VERY outspoken but would never want someone to think I am the judge of who they choose to be or appear.

[Tari Landar]

I guess maybe I'm the odd one out here on this one. I like my av the way she looks. I spent a lot of time getting her exactly how I wanted. Typically, I don't much care what other peeople think. However there is one person I will always listen to, and that's my hubby. If he tells me something isn't flattering, then I know it really isn't. He wouldn't say so, just because. He loves me for me, not my av. When we originally met, what we had before us, was avs(in a game elsewhere). Then we got to know the people. As our relationship developed the avs became the people, as it were. Being able to be open and honest with one another is, imo, a key element to a good relationship. I don't just mean romantic relationships, either.

If he puts something on and it doesn't really fit, doesn't look very good, or, perhaps isn't the most flattering to him/his style/his body, I will tell him. He'd do the same for me. We don't get all offended that the other person is insulting us, or thinks we're ugly. The only reason we tell one another IS because we care. We wouldn't tell a perfect stranger, because that's just not nice. They don't know where you're coming from. The comments surely wouldn't be coming from concern or care, but rather just flat out visual disapproval. Which is where "in the eye of the beholder" comes from to begin with. That's why we employ that beautiful statement. But with each other? No, absolutely not. If there's a concern, we can accept it. Even if we don't agree and believe it does look just fine. Maybe we're strange, I don't know.

If you're close with someone I'd say you should be able to mention it, it's more a matter of how not if. That's where one has to be delicate and make it not seem necessarily vain. Anything at all that flatters the other person is far more welcome than "those shoes are fugly, take them off". Approach is, of course, very important. But, like I already said, it really depends on the relationship you have with someone. A friend, I might or might not say something-depending on how close we are as people(not just avs).  Having a good relationship with someone often gives us valuable information like how they can handle certain things and how they can't. Whether or not criticism at all-even if given in the best possible way, will end up causing problems, etc. A stranger? I wouldn't say a thing. If they ask, however, all bets are off and I will answer but I'll do so in a way that neither makes me seem vain, nor them seem idiotic for thinking it looks good. There are always ways to get around being mean when something really needs to be said.  You can express your opinion on how something looks, without being mean, even to a perfect stranger. It's much easier to do with someone you have a close relationship with because you know they'll understand where it comes from and no ill will is behind it.

I'm not one of those who would ever want someone to lie and say something looks good when it really doesn't, lol. If I ask, it's because I am doubting my decision and I need honesty. Aside from that, being legally blind tends to mean I sometimes need to ask others how something looks, lol. If they aren't honest, I can't fix it. That's really important to someone like me, who doesn't want to accept the inevitable some day, when I'll have to fully rely on the vision of others.

[Ranyart]

Tari, I you expressed my point of view more eloquently than I did. Or at least where I was coming from at the thought of finding a way to mention it. Please don't get me wrong people, I light up when I see her avi...... shoes and all.

Methinks we'll be doing a lot of beach and water activities.  .......... grins

[FairuzaB]

Why not offer to take her shopping or send her some gifts?   

[Buttacwup Float]

I did not read the whole thread so apologies for repeats. I would not say anything either. Each to there own when it comes to avatars. A few thoughts. Your computer makes a big difference in how things look. A lower spec computer can make the nicest new mesh look about as good as a 3 year old freebie. What you might do is scope around for hunts or groups gifts that look nice and plan a shopping day. Nicer freebies abound, even for shoes. Most of all though, just best to keep people in world. Leave the judgments to others and enjoy each others company. We all looked horrid at one point in our SL lives.

[Christin73]

Most female AVIs are perticuler how we dress. In the real world our shoes are our passion. However, it is hard to pass up free. Although there is usualy a reason it is free lol. SOme may not have the RL money or the L$ to buy a decent pair of shoes. Perhaps gift her a pair of decent shoes. Doesnt have to be expensive just decent better then the 1L freebies.

[Bree Giffen]

You could just ask her to help you improve your avatar. Tell her that you're feeling like your avatar needs some improvement. Take a look at all the new designs out there. The whole idea is to get her thinking more about her appearance and learning about all the new items out there that can improve her avatar.

[Ren Toxx]

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Ranyart wrote: [...] 

and though she has been in sl over 6 months she wears those freebie shoes with the distorted feet and an avi that I think is also a freebie and doesn't do her justice [...]

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Six months ain't an altogether excessive time to start being precious about your avatar; I'm like that now, over four years into SL... I don't think I was back then, mainly because I felt there were so many other, still new & exciting things to focus my attention on.

Another reason might be money; getting quality, plus a varied wardrobe to be able to change from day to day and still remain terrific-looking, comes at a price. A purchase of a gift she may accept, but many purchases might be out of her pocket, and I'd be extremely careful about constant gifts on your part. And yes, there are many wonderful freebies out there in the form of shop & group gifts, lucky chairs, discounts, etc.; but those are scattered enough than it'd take time and constancy... again, perhaps more than she feels like dedicating right now.

 

Let her be. Cherish her for what she is inside, and let her worry about her own appearance; I haven't met many women who didn't do what they could about it the moment they were able to, so if you suggest her that she needs to improve, you might be unknowingly pushing her to a level she'd like to achieve, but currently can't... and that might make her feel bad.

 

And as others have said, if now or anytime in the future you feel that her less than perfect looks are really beginning to annoy you, that'll be the moment for you to start considering what your true priorities are.