Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

[Phoebe Avro]

Where is the disclosure to the the non English speaking part of the SL?

The second largest number of residents in SL come from Germany and many others in SL don't speak English, if this announcement had been delayed a month or two until there were some facts and it was posted on the blog at least those people would have been able to translate it!

A German friend spoke to me about this last night she heard about it on some ones facebook page she knew little about whats happened

[DesperadoReprise]

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Phoebe Avro wrote:

Where is the disclosure to the the non English speaking part of the SL?

The second largest number of residents in SL come from Germany and many others in SL don't speak English, if this announcement had been delayed a month or two until there were some facts and it was posted on the blog at least those people would have been able to translate it!

A German friend spoke to me about this last night she heard about it on some ones facebook page she knew little about whats happened

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If you don't understand English you don't really matter much to LL.

On the bright side, even if you write it badly you can still get a job there.

Even as CEO!

"that's a stone-cold fact"

[DesperadoReprise]

I have been asked by a very close friend of mine to raise the question with Ebbe of whether IP bans will be carried over to the new world.

And will they be made more effective?

"it's all the same"

 

[Qie Niangao]

They'd be in good company if the Lab only offered a subset of services to Europe. 

The worst part is that every other nation on the planet also must wait while Google (for example) tries to figure out what they can offer where, without triggering Tuetonic wrath.

(Then there's the crazy Canadian judge who demands removal of certain search results everywhere. Even NAFTA can't protect trade from the long, spastic arm of international law.)

[Gavin Hird]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

They'd be in good company if the Lab only offered a subset of services to Europe. 

The worst part is that every other nation on the planet also must wait while Google (for example) tries to figure out what they can offer where, without triggering Tuetonic wrath.

(Then there's the crazy Canadian judge who demands removal of certain search results

everywhere

. Even NAFTA can't protect trade from the long, spastic arm of international law.)

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That is one way of viewing it. Another view is to design your service so it scales to different legislation. 

[DesperadoReprise]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

 

 Another view is to design your service so it scales

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FIFY!

(Sorry, I'm dragging technical criticism into a conceptual commercial debate. Although global domination is a bit of a stretch for the limited management capability LL has demonstrated over the last decade.)

PS The same would apply to these Lithium hosted forums; we just had almost an hour's outage, with no explanation.

[kiramanell]

Rather shocked here. I have spent thousands of dollars on SL; but, more importantly, thousands of hours creating my many homes. And by ‘creating’ I mean making them my own, thru extensive modding and decorating. They are to me little pieces of art, as it were, that I cherish and hold dear, as I tried to do something special with each of them, interior-design wise. Some of them I’ve been tweaking for years.

Also, no backwards compatibility is a shocker to me. And even if they add some sort of backwards compatibility (which they say chances are pretty slim for), then pretty much *all* homes and furniture I bought are non-transfer to begin with (with most of them, I was lucky to get them mod/copy). So, yeah, good luck getting that all ported.

Word is, we can certainly forget about LSL Script compatibility. So, exit all my rezzers with all my homes in them. Sigh.

For me this just spells the demise of everything I built up. Basically they’re saying, ‘Look, kiddo, enjoy what you have another 2-3 years, but then we close up shop on the old SL.’ Yes, I know the lady said “We’re not giving up on Second Life.” But she also said SL as we know it only has a couple of years to live. Kind of a mixed bag, really.

A rather sad Kira.

[Innula Zenovka]

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DesperadoReprise wrote:

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Of course they don't have any plans to disallow ageplay of the sort you describe.   They disallowed it seven or eight years ago, and people don't normally talk about making plans to do something they've already done.    

 

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But Ebbe has comitted here in these forums very recently that Sanitised Life will allow user freedoms as long as they are legal.

And depiction of sexual age-play is not illegal in California, with whose laws LL has to comply.

Is he lying, inconsistent, or incompetent?

"it's finally turned the tables"

---

What I thought he said -- what you quoted him as saying, anyway -- was "We have no plans to disallow anything that's going on in SL and is legal. We're proud of the freedom we offer. "

Age play of the sort you described is already disallowed, and has been for seven or eight years.   He doesn't need to plan to ban it, since his predecessors have already banned it, and if it's now going on in SL, it shouldn't be, since it's clearly in contravention of the Terms of Service.   

I see nothing in what he's said that suggests he intends to prohibit anything that's currently permitted, and neither do I see anything that suggests he intends to permit anything that's currently prohibited.   

 

 

[Gavin Hird]

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DesperadoReprise wrote:

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

 

 Another view is to design your service so it scales

---

FIFY!

(Sorry, I'm dragging technical criticism into a conceptual commercial debate. Although global domination is a bit of a stretch for the limited management capability LL has demonstrated over the last decade.)

PS The same would apply to these Lithium hosted forums; we just had almost an hour's outage, with no explanation.

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The scary thing is it would scale reasonably well both from a capacity, cultural and legislative standpoint if they employed the hypergrid model, and not insisted on owning every nook and cranny.

[DesperadoReprise]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

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DesperadoReprise wrote:

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Of course they don't have any plans to disallow ageplay of the sort you describe.   They disallowed it seven or eight years ago, and people don't normally talk about making plans to do something they've already done.    

 

---

But Ebbe has comitted here in these forums very recently that Sanitised Life will allow user freedoms as long as they are legal.

And depiction of sexual age-play is not illegal in California, with whose laws LL has to comply.

Is he lying, inconsistent, or incompetent?

"it's finally turned the tables"

---

What I thought he said -- what you quoted him as saying, anyway -- was "

We have no plans to disallow anything that's going on in SL and is legal. We're proud of the freedom we offer. "

Age play of the sort you described

is already disallowed

, and has been for seven or eight years.   He doesn't need to plan to ban it, since his predecessors have already banned it, and if it's now going on in SL, it shouldn't be, since it's clearly in contravention of the Terms of Service.   

I see nothing in what he's said that suggests he intends to prohibit anything that's currently permitted, and neither do I see anything that suggests he intends to permit anything that's currently prohibited.   

 

 

---

If you're going to nitpick, then I should point out a couple of things:

1. He hasn't said anything at all about Sanitised Life V2 in his statement, merely given an almost content-free confirmation that V1 will be allowed to stagnate as it is.

2. He's an ESLer, and his choice of wording has been overtly suspect in almost all the posts he has made here recently, so I would not rely on fine distinctions of interpretation.

"watch 'em"

[kiramanell]

---

Phoebe Avro wrote:

I think a lot of land shrinkage in sl is due to the MP many shop owners have closed up and only sell on the MP now some of these people had clubs or rp sims they also closed!

The influx of people selling very cheap items on the MP beacause they don't have any land costs forces prices down!

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Actually, I've seen entire sims from reputable builders disappear, precisely because LL introduced new things. Some major builders saw their stuff virtually obsoleted overnight when mesh was introduced, for instance. Some builders were able to make the switch and survived. Others just left; and entirely new builders appeared. But, on a whole, obsoleting old stuff can have dettrimental effects on many builders.

[Vivienne Schell]

"We have no plans to disallow anything that's going on in SL and is legal."

Wishiwashi. Alcohol is legal in Sweden, but so expensive that no one can afford it. There are many ways to set up restrictions, not only legal ones, while claiming to be the ward of the holy grail of freedom.

:matte-motes-nerdy:

[Phoebe Avro]

I find it almost impossible to find full perm mesh items that suit my genre now those that made sculpts as you say many gave up.

I make most of my own rather basic mesh now but i am getting clever at using the skills i do  have!

Organic shaped items tend to have a high land impact, this does not effect clothing and attachment creators and never has, some form of limiting an av's impact should have been set in place a long time ago!

[Innula Zenovka]

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DesperadoReprise wrote:

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

---

DesperadoReprise wrote:

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

Of course they don't have any plans to disallow ageplay of the sort you describe.   They disallowed it seven or eight years ago, and people don't normally talk about making plans to do something they've already done.    

 

---

But Ebbe has comitted here in these forums very recently that Sanitised Life will allow user freedoms as long as they are legal.

And depiction of sexual age-play is not illegal in California, with whose laws LL has to comply.

Is he lying, inconsistent, or incompetent?

"it's finally turned the tables"

---

What I thought he said -- what you quoted him as saying, anyway -- was "

We have no plans to disallow anything that's going on in SL and is legal. We're proud of the freedom we offer. "

Age play of the sort you described

is already disallowed

, and has been for seven or eight years.   He doesn't need to plan to ban it, since his predecessors have already banned it, and if it's now going on in SL, it shouldn't be, since it's clearly in contravention of the Terms of Service.   

I see nothing in what he's said that suggests he intends to prohibit anything that's currently permitted, and neither do I see anything that suggests he intends to permit anything that's currently prohibited.   

 

 

---

If you're going to nitpick, then I should point out a couple of things:

1. He hasn't said anything at all about Sanitised Life V2 in his statement, merely given an almost content-free confirmation that V1 will be allowed to stagnate as it is.

2. He's an ESLer, and his choice of wording has been overtly suspect in almost all the posts he has made here recently, so I would not rely on fine distinctions of interpretation.

"watch 'em"

---

Let's look at what he actually did say, in context:

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Ebbe Linden wrote:

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Racheal Rexen wrote:

Hello Ebbe, thanks for taking the time to answer ours questions, My question is if the Adult Community will have a place in the new Virtual world?

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We have no plans to disallow anything that's going on in SL and is legal. We're proud of the freedom we offer.

---

His reply, in context, seems to me clearly to refer to SL2.    

I may well be mistaken, but I've not yet seen anything he's said, either here or anywhere else, that suggests to me that the policy on Adult Content in SL2 will be significantly different from what it is in SL1 at the moment.     That may change over the next year or so, of course, but I'll worry about that if and when it happens.

 

[Gavin Hird]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

---

We have no plans to disallow anything that's going on in SL and is legal. We're proud of the freedom we offer.

 

What you have to keep in mind is that something that might be perfectly legal for a 16+ audience (current) may not be legal for a 7+ audience (presumed future.) So you have to know all the parameters here before you conclude?

[Simone Arsenault]

I am sorry but you make me smiling. In my european country, so many huge companies were sued and forced to backtrack because : not everything that you are forced to sign with prior agreement means that is acceptable.
In my country consumers have legal protection fortunately.

[Vivienne Schell]

"i've seen entire sims from reputable builders disappear, precisely because LL introduced new things´"

The difference HERE is that almost any single asset format will change. The history of mesh or whatsoever has only proven that partial format changes alone didn´t have ANY positive impact on the overall growth of SL.

Now they gamble and hope to get away with a radical cut. I think they basically miss the fact that the vast majority of dedicated Second Life customers (not the loud minority on SLUniverse and elsewhere) is not really interested in any substantial changes of technology, but in their inventory and what they can do with it, how they can do something with it and - most important - what for? And since friday for how long?

Old dilemma: Techies vs. Philosophers/Business People. At LL the techies obviously dominate all other groups.

[kiramanell]

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Vivienne Schell wrote:

"i've seen entire sims from reputable builders disappear, precisely because LL introduced new things´"

The difference HERE is that almost any single asset format will change. The history of mesh or whatsoever has only proven that partial format changes alone didn´t have ANY positive impact on the overall growth of SL.

Now they gamble and hope to get away with a radical cut. I think they basically miss the fact that the vast majority of dedicated Second Life customers (not the loud minority on SLUniverse and elsewhere) is not really interested in any substantial changes of technology, but in their inventory and what they can do with it, how they can do something with it and - most important - what for? And since friday for how long?

Old dilemma: Techies vs. Philosophers/Business People. At LL the techies obviously dominate all other groups.

---

My point exactly. Not everyone can or wants to embark on a full 'do over.' Reading those blogs, it looks to me that we can pretty much kiss backwards compatibility goodbye (if, for nothing else, by logical inference: after all, the reason to start anew was to get rid of the old, inhibitive tech).

My entire sim is full of homes I bought, and then took many years sometmes to mod and decorate, and make my own, as it were. So, while not a 100% content-creator, I'm not sure I want to start all over again. And, like you say, what for? Just so some CEO with a wet dream can yank it out from under me again one day? As Bush once said: "Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice.... eh, also shame on you!" (or words to that effect).

Also, pray-tell, LL, what spectacular (not specular) new tech is being used?! In reality, I can't even get the Lindens to up the 512MB texture memory limit on the current incarnation of SL, out of fear ppl won't be able to run it. So, what makes them suddenly think the world is ready for Matrix 2.0 now?!

 

 

 

[Vivienne Schell]

"A rather sad Kira."

I´d not be overly concerned over Linden Lab wasting millions of dollars on the development of a DOA tablet app. As long as this brandnew, superfantastic, truly revolutionary and outstanding and absolutely exiting vision does not kill the cow who pays the bills. Unfortunately their recent CEO lacks any kind of sense for public relations and inflamed some truly harmful fire by some lousy crafted announcement. And even this isn´t a reason to be sad. On the contrary.

:smileylol:

[Coby Foden]

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Simone Arsenault wrote:

I am sorry but you make me smiling. In my european country, so many huge companies were sued and forced to backtrack because : not everything that you are forced to sign with prior agreement means that is acceptable.

In my country consumers have legal protection fortunately.

---

(:smileyhappy:)

 

Were you really forced to agree with the TOS? Did somebody held you at gunpoint forcing you to agree? Of course not. You were not forced to do anything. You created your account voluntarily, you agreed to the TOS voluntarily to get inworld.

If you didn't like the TOS there was the option for you to not to agree and stay out from SL. You made the choise what you did voluntarily - there was no forcing of any kind going on.

Agreeing to the TOS is a requirement to get inworld. You either agree or do not agree with the reguirement - it's your free choise to decide what to do.

[Phoebe Avro]

SL is a niche business and I can't see that ever changing it will never be what facebook was it will never have billions of customers, what will happen in years to come will be more and more virtual worlds of one kind or another!

If i were to start building one today it would be themed loosly along the lines of the skyrim game not a ripp off but a medieval fantasy world that had the graphics like skyrim it would not be a game but it would have games in it and of course rp currency and users would be able to build etc much like SL maybe with other planets you could port over to with slightly different themes

As bandwith and internet speed goes up and becomes cheaper it would be possible to host your own sever at home or in a data center and using the cloud

[Phil Deakins]

This isn't just a reply to your post, kiramanell. It's meant for all who are seeing doom and gloom because of the SL2 announcement.

 

If LL doesn't create a much better SL-like world, someone else will. If someone else did it, we'd all be saying how much better it is 'over there', and quite a largeish chunk of the population would go over, perhaps also maintaining a presence in SL as well for a while. Those that went over wouldn't be thinking how bad it is that we can't take the inventories along, because nobody would expect SL inventories to go over.

So it's LL that is creating the better world. What's wrong with that? Nobody can find fault with that. AND some of the SL inventory will go over. What a plus! AND SL will continue to run as well. So we get it all - a better world, some inventory going over, and continuance of SL.

It is not all doom and gloom. We have been given at least 2 years notice. Most of what we buy in that time we will have stopped using by then anyway. Most of what's in out inventories now never gets used any more. Yes, some of the things that won't go over will be missed, but they can still be used in SL for some time after SL2 is launched. SL2 will not be disaserous for SL users. If it does turn out to be a much better world, it will be a big plus for us.

So why not look at it this way. Someone is creating a new world. If it turns out to be better than SL, go there and perhaps keep a presence in SL until such times as you decide that the new is for you. Think if the new creator as being a different company and stay in SL if you prefer it, and set up in the new one if you prefer that.

[kiramanell]

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Coby Foden wrote:

If you didn't like the TOS there was the option for you to not to agree and stay out from SL. You made the choise what you did voluntarily - there was no forcing of any kind going on.

Agreeing to the TOS is a

requirement

to get inworld. You either agree or do not agree with the reguirement - it's your free choise to decide what to do.

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Actually, it's a bit more complex than that. For instance, there may be statutory laws that make certain EULA clauses illegal in some countries. Yes, even when you 'agreed' to those (clauses that violate statutory law are void to begin with, so you can't even agree to them, even if you wanted to).

Anyways, I thought we were talking about Linden Lab building a NEW virtual world?! I doubt there would be anything in their new EULA that either differs much from the current one, or would be otherwise offensive to me.

[Magnus Brody]

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DesperadoReprise wrote:

If you're going to nitpick, then I should point out a couple of things:

1. He hasn't said anything at all about Sanitised Life V2 in his statement, merely given an almost content-free confirmation that V1 will be allowed to stagnate as it is.

2. He's an ESLer, and his choice of wording has been overtly suspect in almost all the posts he has made here recently, so I would not rely on fine distinctions of interpretation.

"watch 'em"

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Although I know your very reason for continually posting here is to annoy anyone you can, it is not only annoying, but also as innacurate as telling me I am more dimwitted than you only because I am Scottish, to continually bang on about Ebbe communicating in English as a Second Language, particularly when your clear inference is that he struggles.

My understanding is that Ebbe is Swedish and as such will have spoken English since very early childhood.  Having lived in both Stockholm and Malmo I can tell you that everyone in Sweden (under the age of approx 70, and many over 70) can speak English fluently.

I think it is appropriate to make a distinction between someone who has more recently learned English to a conversational level, but mostly communicates in their first language, and someone who has known a second language all their life, is entirely fluent and has spent most of their life living in places where they would only have spoken this second language: English.

Ebbe has made himself clearly and logically understood, and your continual attempts to obfuscate his message by stating that it's not being made clearly enough should be seen for what it is; laughable.

I think Ebbe is telling us as much as he can, particualry when it's considered that the developers are only writing the new software now, so I don't see how he can be absolutely definitive about this type of prim or that avatar axis, etc.

[Phoebe Avro]

lol I still have an over 400 prim pair of studded vampire thigh boots i still wear now and then that i bought in 2007 and no one has been able to make a pair in mesh in any comparison that i have ever seen!