Amethyst Jetaime Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Discounts for educational and non profits have now returned! LL Blog Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frawmusl Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Woooo! Return of all the fun educational sims!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McGregor Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Am I rude to relate this to user-retention AFTER the fallout ? :robotindifferent: <-- Ok .. this smiley is starting to annoy me. ARGH !! :robotindifferent: *sigh* :robotindifferent: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 well they even created a new subforum : Second life Education, just below the missed connections one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charly Muggins Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Discounts for educational and non profits have now returned! Does this mean that failing sellers on the Marketplace will receive subsidies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy Beck Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 They may have seen the light, but only as it flashed past them. The thing about the majority of educational establishments is that they tend to be run by people with some intelligence and have scarce resources. That's why educational establishments have fled to cheaper OpenSim grids or just put sims on a USB stick at a fraction of the cost that LL is offering them even now. SL in comparison offers only a larger population, which is of no significance to educators as they are primarily only interested in their own class cohort. It offers slightly better bells and whistles than OpenSim grids, but still has the same basic tools that educators were quite happy with years ago till LL's pricing policy pushed them elsewhere. I remain unconvinced that this will lead to anything, but a very minimal rise in interest or sim ownership by educators. The bird has flown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Discounts for educational and non profits have now returned! LL Blog Post This is good news. Long over due, but still good. And maybe, just maybe, if the light continues to shine on them they will revisit the subject of Land Pricing over all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Sy Beck wrote: They may have seen the light, but only as it flashed past them. The thing about the majority of educational establishments is that they tend to be run by people with some intelligence and have scarce resources. That's why educational establishments have fled to cheaper OpenSim grids or just put sims on a USB stick at a fraction of the cost that LL is offering them even now. SL in comparison offers only a larger population, which is of no significance to educators as they are primarily only interested in their own class cohort. It offers slightly better bells and whistles than OpenSim grids, but still has the same basic tools that educators were quite happy with years ago till LL's pricing policy pushed them elsewhere. I remain unconvinced that this will lead to anything, but a very minimal rise in interest or sim ownership by educators. The bird has flown. I can see the point of renting sims out half price to educational establishments and non-profits who wouldn't otherwise pay for them -- the extra income is useful and half a loaf is better than none -- but I can easily name for you dozens of sims, be they educational (Builders Brewery, The Particle Lab, NCI) or simply exciting, imaginative and artistic builds maintained by ordinary residents simply for the love of it, or even some commercial sims that showcase landscaping and building products, that contribute far more to many people's SL without receiving any financial support from LL than will most educational establishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charly Muggins Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Sy Beck wrote: They may have seen the light, but only as it flashed past them. The thing about the majority of educational establishments is that they tend to be run by people with some intelligence and have scarce resources. That's why educational establishments have fled to cheaper OpenSim grids or just put sims on a USB stick at a fraction of the cost that LL is offering them even now. SL in comparison offers only a larger population, which is of no significance to educators as they are primarily only interested in their own class cohort. It offers slightly better bells and whistles than OpenSim grids, but still has the same basic tools that educators were quite happy with years ago till LL's pricing policy pushed them elsewhere. I remain unconvinced that this will lead to anything, but a very minimal rise in interest or sim ownership by educators. The bird has flown. Dammit Sy, how come you can get away with direct criticism and a clear statement of the failure of LL when my post that said the same sort of things, but sugar-coated with sarcasm, was stealth-modded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy Beck Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Charly Muggins wrote: Sy Beck wrote: They may have seen the light, but only as it flashed past them. The thing about the majority of educational establishments is that they tend to be run by people with some intelligence and have scarce resources. That's why educational establishments have fled to cheaper OpenSim grids or just put sims on a USB stick at a fraction of the cost that LL is offering them even now. SL in comparison offers only a larger population, which is of no significance to educators as they are primarily only interested in their own class cohort. It offers slightly better bells and whistles than OpenSim grids, but still has the same basic tools that educators were quite happy with years ago till LL's pricing policy pushed them elsewhere. I remain unconvinced that this will lead to anything, but a very minimal rise in interest or sim ownership by educators. The bird has flown. Dammit Sy, how come you can get away with direct criticism and a clear statement of the failure of LL when my post that said the same sort of things, but sugar-coated with sarcasm, was stealth-modded? Never attack from the front :smileyhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenMichelle Lane Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 This is good news IMHO For more in depth coverage of the overall Virtual World Business climate I like to read http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/ There are excellent News & Opinion pieces in this online journal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Sy Beck wrote: They may have seen the light, but only as it flashed past them. The thing about the majority of educational establishments is that they tend to be run by people with some intelligence and have scarce resources. That's why educational establishments have fled to cheaper OpenSim grids or just put sims on a USB stick at a fraction of the cost that LL is offering them even now. SL in comparison offers only a larger population, which is of no significance to educators as they are primarily only interested in their own class cohort. It offers slightly better bells and whistles than OpenSim grids, but still has the same basic tools that educators were quite happy with years ago till LL's pricing policy pushed them elsewhere. I remain unconvinced that this will lead to anything, but a very minimal rise in interest or sim ownership by educators. The bird has flown. Seems to me that everyone is better off if institutions with such insular interests stay away from SL. On the other hand, SL is a very different place from what it was in, say, 2007 when any institution -- or commercial enterprise -- aspiring to reach the tech community simply had to have a Second Life presence. It's far from evident that SL still serves any similar purpose. Some of that erosion came when the educational subsidy was dropped, but that was really late in the game, and most of the tech outreach mission was already past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Innula Zenovka wrote: Sy Beck wrote: They may have seen the light, but only as it flashed past them. The thing about the majority of educational establishments is that they tend to be run by people with some intelligence and have scarce resources. That's why educational establishments have fled to cheaper OpenSim grids or just put sims on a USB stick at a fraction of the cost that LL is offering them even now. SL in comparison offers only a larger population, which is of no significance to educators as they are primarily only interested in their own class cohort. It offers slightly better bells and whistles than OpenSim grids, but still has the same basic tools that educators were quite happy with years ago till LL's pricing policy pushed them elsewhere. I remain unconvinced that this will lead to anything, but a very minimal rise in interest or sim ownership by educators. The bird has flown. I can see the point of renting sims out half price to educational establishments and non-profits who wouldn't otherwise pay for them -- the extra income is useful and half a loaf is better than none -- but I can easily name for you dozens of sims, be they educational (Builders Brewery, The Particle Lab, NCI) or simply exciting, imaginative and artistic builds maintained by ordinary residents simply for the love of it, or even some commercial sims that showcase landscaping and building products, that contribute far more to many people's SL without receiving any financial support from LL than will most educational establishments. Educational SIMs like The Particle Lab, Builders Brewery have been indispensable to SL. Most of the little I know about scripting actually I learned at the Particle Lab. I never really availed myself of the Brewery. I do always make it a point to leave a tip when I visit these places. I wonder if they'd be able to affiliate with one of the Non Profits and benefit from that? Artistic builds may be another story. Perhaps a rebate based on traffic and Resident feed back would be the way to go for those. You'd need some kind of Criteria. It's been a while since I can really remember people raising an issue but many wondered when Nautilus closed (I think that was it's name) why LL didn't take it over and keep it open. It was so impressive. I think many of us could generate lists of impressive SIMs that showcased what could be done artistically in SL. I still miss "Starry Nights," the Van Gogh Museum. It was in fact the very first place I ever visited in SL after arriving at Ahern. I met a girl, asked her to show me her favorite thing in SL, and that is where she took me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Perrie Juran wrote: Innula Zenovka wrote: Sy Beck wrote: They may have seen the light, but only as it flashed past them. The thing about the majority of educational establishments is that they tend to be run by people with some intelligence and have scarce resources. That's why educational establishments have fled to cheaper OpenSim grids or just put sims on a USB stick at a fraction of the cost that LL is offering them even now. SL in comparison offers only a larger population, which is of no significance to educators as they are primarily only interested in their own class cohort. It offers slightly better bells and whistles than OpenSim grids, but still has the same basic tools that educators were quite happy with years ago till LL's pricing policy pushed them elsewhere. I remain unconvinced that this will lead to anything, but a very minimal rise in interest or sim ownership by educators. The bird has flown. I can see the point of renting sims out half price to educational establishments and non-profits who wouldn't otherwise pay for them -- the extra income is useful and half a loaf is better than none -- but I can easily name for you dozens of sims, be they educational (Builders Brewery, The Particle Lab, NCI) or simply exciting, imaginative and artistic builds maintained by ordinary residents simply for the love of it, or even some commercial sims that showcase landscaping and building products, that contribute far more to many people's SL without receiving any financial support from LL than will most educational establishments. Educational SIMs like The Particle Lab, Builders Brewery have been indispensable to SL. Most of the little I know about scripting actually I learned at the Particle Lab. I never really availed myself of the Brewery. I do always make it a point to leave a tip when I visit these places. I wonder if they'd be able to affiliate with one of the Non Profits and benefit from that? Artistic builds may be another story. Perhaps a rebate based on traffic and Resident feed back would be the way to go for those. You'd need some kind of Criteria. It's been a while since I can really remember people raising an issue but many wondered when Nautilus closed (I think that was it's name) why LL didn't take it over and keep it open. It was so impressive. I think many of us could generate lists of impressive SIMs that showcased what could be done artistically in SL. I still miss "Starry Nights," the Van Gogh Museum. It was in fact the very first place I ever visited in SL after arriving at Ahern. I met a girl, asked her to show me her favorite thing in SL, and that is where she took me. This is going to sound really horrible and hard-hearted, but I am very dubious about giving discounts to sims for their value to SL, no matter how great. We've seen the grumbling and complaints when -- not unreasonably, it seems to me -- the large land barons get discounts on their sim pricing. I can't think of many contexts other than SL where the proposition that someone leasing 100 units of something normally leased in much smaller quantities might reasonably expect a discount would be particularly contentious, but it is here. So if LL start giving people discounts on their tier because of the sim's educational, artistic or social merits, I guarantee there will be a commotion the like of which you've not heard since the last time someone inadvertantly sat on the cat. It's hard, but, to my mind, if people can make their sims pay, or if the public want to support them, or if they have the means and desire to fund them out of their own resources, then great. Otherwise, they will go. So enjoy places while you can, and support them in whatever way you can if you want to keep them. That's my policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marybeth Cooperstone Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I understand the need for education programs about Second Life, and to educate people who are already active in SL. However, I do not understand why a university or educational organization would set up an education program in SL. Linden has been advertising to educational institutions and organizations about the advantages of an on-line presence for education. On-line education, particularly short courses and seminars, has been around for many years. There are a number of tools for on-line education such as Blackboard, Sakia, etc. that are used by colleges and universities for online courses. Courses, particularly for short continuing education and professional development, are even taught using Go To Meeting and similar tools. These do not require as much computing power for students. Any laptop and, for some courses, mobile devices such as iPads and tablets can be used. I have taught a few on-line CLE courses (continuing education for attorneys) and taken many. Some involve lecture and discussion, and use cameras and mikes for those that have them. So you see the actual instructor and some of the other students - the real people, not avatars. Some of the tools such as Sakia have built in chat, forum, testing, and other features. On line education, both for college credit and for continuing professional education, are here and will be growing in use. I just don't see why Second Life, or any other virtual world or grid, would have any advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Marybeth Cooperstone wrote: I understand the need for education programs about Second Life, and to educate people who are already active in SL. However, I do not understand why a university or educational organization would set up an education program in SL. Linden has been advertising to educational institutions and organizations about the advantages of an on-line presence for education. On-line education, particularly short courses and seminars, has been around for many years. There are a number of tools for on-line education such as Blackboard, Sakia, etc. that are used by colleges and universities for online courses. Courses, particularly for short continuing education and professional development, are even taught using Go To Meeting and similar tools. These do not require as much computing power for students. Any laptop and, for some courses, mobile devices such as iPads and tablets can be used. I have taught a few on-line CLE courses (continuing education for attorneys) and taken many. Some involve lecture and discussion, and use cameras and mikes for those that have them. So you see the actual instructor and some of the other students - the real people, not avatars. Some of the tools such as Sakia have built in chat, forum, testing, and other features. On line education, both for college credit and for continuing professional education, are here and will be growing in use. I just don't see why Second Life, or any other virtual world or grid, would have any advantage. I agree. SL is a terrible way to collaborate/educate on anything that's not SL. Educational institutions learned that years ago. They won't be back, unless to give students a glimpse of a virtual world. In my professional work, tools like GoToMyMeeting are vastly superior. There's been a lot of buzz about MOOCs (Massive Open Online Courses), and the tools to facilitate them. NYTimes declared 2012 as the "Year of the MOOC". I don't think they ever declared a "Year of the Virtual World". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Regarding online education, the Cal State college in the heart of Silicon Valley started a massive online education program a year or so back, aided of course by the local tech community. They've just recently announced a major reduction for the new semester. Statistics showed that online students were not learning as much as in-class students of the same courses. It may be the future but it appears it needs some tweaking. As for all this sudden news regarding the education discount, it has been suggested that much of it has to do with the currently underway VWBPE conferences, some of which are being held in SL over the next four days. That stands for 'Virtual World Best Practices in Education', and deals specifically with course designed in and around virtual worlds. They even subcategorized that as 'immersive' virtual worlds in another place. I think LL is taking advantage of the fact that academics will be here. It might be a good strategy, too. These academics will presumably already KNOW what to expect from a virtual world and might have expectations that SL can meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 It's not just educational institutions...remember the "non-profit." Marybeth, an organization that is near and dear to both our hearts has benefitted from this; I think you know which one I'm talking about. This is very, very good news for us. Also LL taking away the deductions also affected places like the American Cancer Society that has a sim/presence in SL as well as sponsoring the yearly Relay for Life in SL. I don't think anyone can dispute that is not a worthwhile organization and deserving of a discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Feels more like they had the light at one point and turned it off..now that flashlight sat on the shelf and they are just hoping it will turn on again.. It used to be cool..going to all the places before..but pulling their discounts.. Well they left and I doubt it will be as cool as it used to be.. Just feels like they shoot themselves in the foot a lot..then later..hey I got a great idea..let's try this again.. Just my opinion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Frawmusl wrote: Woooo! Return of all the fun educational sims!? Not unless they let the educational get fixed contracts with locked in pricing for a year or more out in advance. The biggest complaint I heard about the price change was not the actual price change; but that it happened in the middle of the standard academic budgetary cycle... resulting in many of them simply not having the funds to pay it out because their grants had already been granted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Dillon Levenque wrote: Regarding online education, the Cal State college in the heart of Silicon Valley started a massive online education program a year or so back, aided of course by the local tech community. They've just recently announced a major reduction for the new semester. Statistics showed that online students were not learning as much as in-class students of the same courses. It may be the future but it appears it needs some tweaking. As for all this sudden news regarding the education discount, it has been suggested that much of it has to do with the currently underway VWBPE conferences, some of which are being held in SL over the next four days. That stands for 'Virtual World Best Practices in Education', and deals specifically with course designed in and around virtual worlds. They even subcategorized that as 'immersive' virtual worlds in another place. I think LL is taking advantage of the fact that academics will be here. It might be a good strategy, too. These academics will presumably already KNOW what to expect from a virtual world and might have expectations that SL can meet. There's no consensus about the efficacy of MOOC. I've read articles claiming that students taking courses online fare better than those receiving face-to-face instruction, and articles claiming the opposite. Stanford, MIT, Georgia Tech and others continue to expand their online course programs. Coursera (founded by two Stanford profs) now has five courses approved for college credit. Bill Gates is a big fan of Salman Kahn, founder of the online Kahn Academy. As one who received a non-traditional education, my only familiarity with classical education was in college, which was enjoyable, but not nearly as challenging as RL (yes, I'm insinuating that academia is not RL). I often wonder how SL might be used to collaborate on RL projects, or to teach/learn about something. I've visited numerous SL educational exhibits which I've found less accessible than standard web pages covering similar topics. I am more skeptical about the value of virtual world technology for teaching than I was when I arrived in SL five years ago. Now that I think about it, I might be more skeptical about a lot of things than I was five years ago ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 There is a lot of education going on in SL that takes place on private sims not open to the public. While the tools you name are valuable in some circumstances, particularly lectures and for limited interaction the immerse environment of virtual worlds is superior for others. The Virtual Worlds Best Practices in Education is a very well attended conference with presentations and workshops taking place on a number of sims. It takes place in SL,as well as in Open Sim and in Cloud Party. It just started today. Last year the conference drew about 2000 participants. Respected educators and professors from major universities are making presentations on how they successfully use virtual worlds to enhance learning for elementary through university levels. Some of the participants are already using virtual worlds while some are new to it and come there to discuss and learn about the best practices for using virtual worlds and hear about successful examples and what makes them so successful vs.. standard classroom learning or using tools that you mentioned. All the ones I have spoken to are very interested in using virtual worlds themselves. Perhaps you should attend the conference. It might open your eyes a bit more to the opportunities available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charly Muggins Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Madelaine McMasters wrote: Now that I think about it, I might be more skeptical about a lot of things than I was five years ago ;-) Congratulations on your continuing enlightenment; I am sure that Storm will be delighted to hear that eventually you might become a realist - probably on your death bed - assuming you discard those US Government issue rose tinted spectacles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charly Muggins Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I signed up with Coursera over a year ago, and am still waiting for them to deliver the goods on something they promised would be ready last September. Presumably they are subcontracting some of the online preparation work to LL . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Mokusei Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Funny stuff. The half dozen or so educational groups still in Second Life may well benefit from this - it's good news for them. I can see it being of some use to charities, though I note the minimum requirement of six months tier makes it useless for RFL and other large-scale/annual charity drives. Unfortunately however LL burnt the education bridge when they didn't give any warning when they pulled the rug out. Academic institutions can't just come up with money overnight, and no-one's going to suggest re-investing in a platform that made them all look like fools to their commitees. Once bitten, twice shy - and rightly so. LL yanked the discount before, I see no reason to assume they won't do it again. Educating groups who still have interest in VWs are elsewhere - they won't be brought back by costs still well in excess of the smaller service, and with no change to the SL support or control structure (OAR backups are especially important, but impossible in SL). SL adds nothing - they don't need visibility and they don't want cross-pollination of assets. Collaboration, where is has been important, has flourished outside of our walled garden. And congratulations to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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