Paid for a product, Delivery not met, no further contact with builder.

[Lita Jannings]

Greetings, I was wondering, what to do about someone in Second Life that has agreed to make a product or service for you, but then after getting paid, the person splits and never seen again. This has happen to me twice now. I'm wondering if Linden labs has a way of settling disputes when payments are made but products are failed to be delivered. The person that did this still log into Second Life but of coarse after getting the money they block you.

Thanks Lita Jannings

[Chic Aeon]

Nope. You are completely on your own. 

[Lita Jannings]

3 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Nope. You are completely on your own. 

My hope is that Linden Labs will come out with a Rating system kind of like Ebay. They don't even let you say the name of the persons either. I am talking big amounts like L$2000 and L$10,000, getting tired of being scammed.

Edited September 17 by Lita Jannings

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Lita Jannings said:

My hope is that Linden Labs will come out with a Rating system kind of like Ebay. They don't even let you say the name of the persons either. I am talking big amounts like L$2000 and L$10,000, getting tired to being scammed.

Would have thought that most would just put down a deposit then pay in stages as the work gets completed.

[Solar Legion]

19 minutes ago, Lita Jannings said:

Greetings, I was wondering, what to do about someone in Second Life that has agreed to make a product or service for you, but then after getting paid, the person splits and never seen again. This has happen to me twice now. I'm wondering if Linden labs has a way of settling disputes when payments are made but products are failed to be delivered. The person that did this still log into Second Life but of coarse after getting the money they block you.

Thanks Lita Jannings

Double edged sword here: Customer pays upfront and runs the risk of the Merchant taking the money and running or Merchant makes the item and delivers it with the Customer running afterward.

In both instances, Linden Lab will not get involved.

1 minute ago, Lita Jannings said:

My hope is that Linden Labs will come out with a Rating system kind of like Ebay. They don't even let you say the name of the persons either. I am talking big amounts like L$2000 and L$10,000, getting tired to being scammed.

Not going to happen - far too easily gamable/abusable.

Optimum outcome? Agree on a dollar (or similar) amount to pay and use PayPal or a similar service that allows you to chargeback if services are not rendered/goods are not delivered.

[Lita Jannings]

1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

Double edged sword here: Customer pays upfront and runs the risk of the Merchant taking the money and running or Merchant makes the item and delivers it with the Customer running afterward.

In both instances, Linden Lab will not get involved.

Not going to happen - far too easily gamable/abusable.

Optimum outcome? Agree on a dollar (or similar) amount to pay and use PayPal or a similar service that allows you to chargeback if services are not rendered/goods are not delivered.

I think paypal is the way to go, but Linden labs needs to mind their own store as well with their Tilla payment system.

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Lita Jannings said:

I think paypal is the way to go, but Linden labs needs to mind their own store as well with their Tilla payment system.

Like i said above: won't happen. Especially once Tilia is acquired by Thunes.

Even before this/the existence of Tilia, such protections simply did not exist within any of the L$ payment processors that existed, let alone with Linden Lab directly. The only times they have stepped in were when a user had their account compromised or a stolen bit of Payment Information was used.

I would be pleasantly surprised to see that change however.

[brodiac90]

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do after the fact. You can only do due diligience beforehand. I find it's honestly best to find people via word of mouth through friends so at least you have a decent point of reference. 

[Love Zhaoying]

Eventually, you learn the hard lesson, move on, and only buy high L$$$ items from creators who prove they can deliver.

[Chic Aeon]

This is a twenty year story and it isn't going to change.   LL has no intention of policing more than they are required to by law or to cover their bases legally.  We did have "lawyers" here OH SO long ago but of course there were no laws but the Terms of Service (which LL will deal with "oftentimes") and it was closer to roleplay then reality.  

Going forward and for anyone new.  Ask to see examples of previous builds.  References won't really help much unless you actually KNOW the person vouching for the builder as the person with the kudos could simply be an alt. 

Only put part of the money down with payments as the work progresses.  Realize the people can leave you stranded in SL just like the do in the corporeal world and often there is very little you can do about it.   

[animats]

You can subpoena Linden Lab in a California court for the identity of the seller. Then you sue the seller, probably in the small claims court of whatever jurisdiction they're in. If they're in the US, this will probably work. In some other countries you can do things remotely. It's going to be a lot of paperwork and fees, and you'll probably need legal advice. The Nolo Press book on small claims court might help.

[Honey Puddles]

3 hours ago, Lita Jannings said:

I am talking big amounts like L$2000 and L$10,000

I am in no way trying to minimize your situation, and I know it's frustrating. But it's important to maintain perspective. That's approximately $8 - $40 USD. US Small Claims court won't even let you sue someone for less than $20.

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, Honey Puddles said:

I am in no way trying to minimize your situation, and I know it's frustrating. But it's important to maintain perspective. That's approximately $8 - $40 USD. US Small Claims court won't even let you sue someone for less than $20.

In my county, there's also a $120 filing fee for small claims court.

[Lita Jannings]

I'm not going to spend more money to get back a small amount. just would like Linden Labs to have a way to track people who take large amounts of L$ and not return a product. mostly just saying, buyer beware

 

[Alwin Alcott]

7 hours ago, Lita Jannings said:

 but Linden labs needs to mind their own store as well with their Tilla payment system.

YOU have made a agreement with that builder, nót with Linden Lab, why on earth would they refund you?

Go to court. ( Thats where these kind of thing belong)

[Lita Jannings]

26 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

YOU have made a agreement with that builder, nót with Linden Lab, why on earth would they refund you?

Go to court. ( Thats where these kind of thing belong)

I wasnt asking for a Refund from LL, I am asking for a system that has a rating for which one can decide whether or not to do business with someone. Do you ever buy something or sell something from a Ebay Seller. you will notice there is a rating for the seller and buyers too. a rating system keeps people honest if they have a shop, or least for most.

[Orwar]

   Seeing how frequently there are complaints about the rating system on the MP, I'm not sure I'd want to see an LL-introduced rating system for services/persons in SL. 

   It is tricky though, in RL we do have a couple of things we can do to protect both customers and contractors. For custom work in particular, the consumer should first browse the portfolio of a contractor - this can still be applicable in SL for things like landscaping and furnishing or custom mesh. Of course that, too, could be 'gamed' by people making fake portfolios, but by that point you're putting enough work into it that the low pay you generally get for your time and effort in SL that you'd be better off doing something else for income.

   When someone wants to commission me I'll talk them through what they want and give them advise where they need it, and make them an offer for a price for the project; in RL we can, at that point, sign a contract if they accept. In SL we can't really do contracts as there's no authority to bind us to it (except maybe LL; but they obviously don't want to be involved in such things - which is understandable, if unfortunate). 

   Rating systems get gamed. Not just on the Second Life Marketplace, but elsewhere online as well. You can make false positive reviews or get rid of negative reviews - and it's also a system wherein the contractor is at the mercy of the customer, which isn't always fair and can in extreme cases accommodate outright extortion. 

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Lita Jannings said:

I wasnt asking for a Refund from LL, I am asking for a system that has a rating for which one can decide whether or not to do business with someone. Do you ever buy something or sell something from a Ebay Seller. you will notice there is a rating for the seller and buyers too. a rating system keeps people honest if they have a shop, or least for most.

the same as any sellling platform, LL dóes have a rating system.
But those personal agreements are not made on that selling platform but between you and the one that you approach, not a store. You could compare sellers on ebay to Marketplace sellers, individual sellers on sl are no member of the platform Marketplace. And even IF they are, individual agreements aren't sold on MP so also not reviewable.
It's like rl civil right compared to customer rights. Slightly different. 

[InnerCity Elf]

11 hours ago, Lita Jannings said:

I think paypal is the way to go, but Linden labs needs to mind their own store as well with their Tilla payment system.

PayPal makes sense if you're worried about them not delivering. Keep in mind that PayPal isn't as anonymous as the transaction can be in SL, though, if that's a point that might bother you.

[Porky Gorky]

I’ve been creating custom 3D content on a freelance basis for 20 years, predominantly outside of SL. Whilst I have seen a few instances of artists taking payment up front and ripping off a client, it is normally the other way round with the artist finishing a project and the client refusing to pay the full amount or anything at all. The best way to build trust between client and artist is to break the project down into multiple partial deliverables with a payment associated with each partial delivery.

[Porky Gorky]

11 hours ago, Lita Jannings said:

They don't even let you say the name of the persons either

Whilst you cannot name and shame a scamming artist on these authoritarian forums, I would presume there are other external SL communities where you can. Maybe go and expose them by name somewhere else, it might make you feel slightly less pissed off.

[Arwyn Quandry]

The idea of a rating system for people is positively dystopian. Hello Black Mirror! 

[Luna Bliss]

13 hours ago, Lita Jannings said:

mostly just saying, buyer beware

I'm sorry that happened to you, and I've heard many such stories, and as someone pointed out it works both ways (builders running off without doing any work as well as customers refusing to pay).

Rather than framing this as "buyer beware" I'd rather frame it as "buyer negotiate your payment plan for custom services".

For custom jobs I've always created a contract for services (not that this is binding -- it's for clarification).  In the contract I spell out the payment plan (usually something like a third being paid upfront, a third when half way completed, and a third after completion). As you can see, they are taking a bit of a risk up front and I"m taking a bit of a risk at the end. This has always worked well for financial aspects of the contract.