Problems with Linden Lab's plans to attract new users.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, lovestofu said:

While most users use SL exclusively for those reasons

Exclusively?

Are you suggesting that most residents are here only for sex?

Or are you misspeaking, because the rest of your post suggests there is much else to do here that is also important and popular?

There is absolutely no question that sexuality is an important component of SL culture. And SL would not survive without sex -- without question. (I suspect that there are a number of other "niche" cultures it would die without too, such as, for instance, clubs and music.) But the suggestion -- which I hope you are not making -- that SL is "exclusively" about sex for most residents is nonsense, or at the very least requires some actual evidence.

[CaerolleClaudel]

5 minutes ago, lovestofu said:

While most users use SL exclusively for those reasons,

Is this really so??? Wow…

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Rufferta said:

You are correct that many explorers spend money on good quality vehicles and everything that goes with them.  I was thinking everyone was like me, using free sailboats, roller skates, and Hobo trains. My apology.

Don't apologise.

Lets look at WHY those boats cost so much.

Say you want to open a boat yard., a boat shed to rp building in, a slipway, some water, navigable sea access.

So, first off you need to be Premium or Ploosse. Then you need to find that 2048 parcel, on the appropriate coast of one of the nicer continents. Then you have to pay tier, if Premium.

For your first year in business, your Sunk Costs are going to be about L$ 100k, but fanatical vehicle users are rarer that they claim, you are only going to sell about 25 boats a year, so, cost per boat, L$ 4k 

 

That's why they cost so much, low sales, high sunk costs. The vehicles cost so much because Fanatical Vehicle Shoppers are a very, very small niche market, that certainly do NOT form the backbone of the SL economy, and never will.

 

LL makes it's money off LAND. and buying the right to own it. Tier and Subscriptions. Off those "evil land barons" paying $165 a MONTH for EACH of 200 mainland regions in their business, not off a few dozen boat whales spending $15-$20 a couple of times a year on a new boat.

 

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, lovestofu said:

Going by numbers alone, SL had the best years when it was catering to education and business,

You have that ass backwards. Peak users was the era of amateur hobbyist land speculators going bankrupt trying to be Anshe.

The Education/Business crowd came in to predate off those users, and had little impact..

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Is this really so??? Wow…

Who knew, right?

I, and pretty much everyone on my fairly largish friends list, have been doing it all wrong! 😕

[Midnoot]

7 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Is this really so??? Wow…

I mean people can deny it all the time but almost everyone I meet in pg , adult , or moderate sims seems to be wearing adult attachments that would indicate that they at least dabble in it from time to time . It's not mine !

[Istelathis]

There have got to be better sex games out there than SL, it is just too profitable for there not to be.  I mean, at least when it comes to a user interface and graphics.  I think some people probably enjoy it, quite a bit, and it takes up a lot of their time in SL, but in between doing the dirty they probably like to do other things as well.  There is probably a lot of leadup that is involved, meeting people at clubs, going for a boat ride, having a proper dinner, then the soap opera level drama, fighting off hordes of zombies to ensure a safe mating area, perhaps a game of minigolf to relax to after, then the ooohing and aahhhing for five minutes on a poseball.

I don't know, I'm not really into the adult stuff but I imagine they stick to SL because it offers a lot more, the lead up to the act, the social aspects of coitus, all of the dynamics.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 minutes ago, Midnoot said:

I mean people can deny it all the time but almost everyone I meet in pg , adult , or moderate sims seems to be wearing adult attachments that would indicate that they at least dabble in it from time to time . It's not mine !

No one is denying that sex is important. At a guess, I'd say that almost everyone on my friends list has been sexually active at one time or another (and that includes me), and maybe half are still engaged in it on a regular basis.

If I went to some clubs, I'd probably find lots of people wearing sexual attachments. If I go to others (the ones I go to regularly on Friday and Sunday nights, for instance), I am pretty sure I'd find few (and I've done a fair amount of incidental sampling at both places, using the What Is She Wearing HUD to find out what a particular dress or hair style was). Your mileage is going to differ a lot depending upon where you go.

What I can assert is that I know nobody who is in SL primarily, let alone "exclusively" for sex. I am entirely sure that some are, but to suggest that "most" are is unprovable and I'm pretty sure an exaggeration. Sex is no more the primary or exclusive point of all that most of us do in SL than it is of what we do in RL. It's an important part of who we are. It does not solely define us.

[CaerolleClaudel]

13 minutes ago, Midnoot said:

I mean people can deny it all the time but almost everyone I meet in pg , adult , or moderate sims seems to be wearing adult attachments that would indicate that they at least dabble in it from time to time . It's not mine !

‘From time to time’ is not exclusively, though. And most of the places I have gone in SL are more like RL, in that people may have sex, but they are not doing it in front of everyone in clubs or even talking about it. Most people I have known had wider interests than that. 

I really don’t care what people do, though, and a lot of people have said that not allowing the mobile app to access the Adult sims, and I assume Adult activities, will kill SL. I have no idea. Personally, I am prefer to be on Adult sims, though I would rather only see sex happening right in front of me if I go someplace specifically like that.

I guess this is OT, though, sorry, just very curious about the assertion that was made. 

[CaerolleClaudel]

7 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

There have got to be better sex games out there than SL, it is just too profitable for there not to be.  I mean, at least when it comes to a user interface and graphics.  I think some people probably enjoy it, quite a bit, and it takes up a lot of their time in SL, but in between doing the dirty they probably like to do other things as well.  There is probably a lot of leadup that is involved, meeting people at clubs, going for a boat ride, having a proper dinner, then the soap opera level drama, fighting off hordes of zombies to ensure a safe mating area, perhaps a game of minigolf to relax to after, then the ooohing and aahhhing for five minutes on a poseball.

I don't know, I'm not really into the adult stuff but I imagine they stick to SL because it offers a lot more, the lead up to the act, the social aspects of coitus, all of the dynamics.

 

Not sure this all relates to the topic, but this describes me extremely well. I did not come to SL for sex, I did not even know that such a thing was possible in SL, and had never cybered before. But pretty much all of the time I have been in SL, excluding my last brief spell, I definitely took advantage of it. However, as you say, there are a LOT of things that happen around the sex, NOT just the act. IME the act is very tedious and interferes with the feelings unless you voice, and I finally felt it was more trouble than it was worth. Really, to me, what that guy said sounds more like AFK sex to me. 

[Ksenia Elcano]

6 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I don't know, I'm not really into the adult stuff but I imagine they stick to SL because it offers a lot more, the lead up to the act, the social aspects of coitus, all of the dynamic

People login to SL in the hope of connecting with someone. They don't login into wander aimlessly around deserted sims. They don't login into listen to music. If they really wanted music, they would use youtube or spotify. Music venues are excuse to mingle and meet.

Connections are delicate. They take awhile to form. On average, sex takes three to five minutes. It's the lead up that's time consuming.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Ksenia Elcano said:

On average, sex takes three to five minutes.

Oh, hun. I'm so sorry!

[Istelathis]

4 minutes ago, Ksenia Elcano said:

They don't login into wander aimlessly around deserted sims.

That is mostly what I do 🤣  I'm kind of boring though, and not at all representative of most people who log into SL.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Istelathis said:

not at all representative of most people who log into SL

Stella, you don't know this! I wouldn't say that I spend most of my time exploring, but I certainly do some!

It gets a bit boring when people who live in SL bubbles and devote themselves to one activity -- be it sex, or BDSM, or music, or RP, or art, or whatever -- proclaim that THEIR one particular slice of SL is somehow THE KEY element of the platform, when in fact it is the combination of all these things, the ability to take a pic, explore, go dancing, and have sex ALL IN ONE DAY here, are what makes this place pretty magic.

I've seen your pics. You don't just explore boring deserted sims. You gamble, you take pics, you arm wrestle with Anubis -- your SL is varied and interesting!

[Midnoot]

48 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

That is mostly what I do 🤣  I'm kind of boring though, and not at all representative of most people who log into SL.

I been doing that a lot lately too , but when I see green dots I immediately buzz toward them to find out if they're friends or foe.  ( Security orb or not). They're usually afk . P:

Edited July 25 by Midnoot

[Midnoot]

I do love how if you mention second lyfe's many seggsual infestations that , let me use that word you guys hate so much , " most " of us encounter in a daily basis ( at least those of us who actually leave our home), you get the ol " me and my 43,300 friends have never experienced anything seggsual in our second lyfe!"

 

Then I get off the forums and go in world and it's like 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

46 minutes ago, Midnoot said:

I do love how if you mention second lyfe's many seggsual infestations that , let me use that word you guys hate so much , " most " of us encounter in a daily basis ( at least those of us who actually leave our home), you get the ol " me and my 43,300 friends have never experienced anything seggsual in our second lyfe!"

I said nothing of the sort. I have had sex in SL, albeit many years ago. I am very aware that it's an important component of many people's SL, and conceded as much. In fact, I suggested that probably about half of my friends list was currently sexually active, and another portion occasionally so. I also leave my home regularly, to go clubbing, take pics, meet friends, or whatever.

What I objected to was the suggestion that it is the only thing SL is good for, or that it is (and I quote) "exclusively" what everyone logs in for.

And despite the fact that I DO travel around a fair bit, riding, exploring, clubbing, going to galleries, etc., and DO go to Adult parcels and regions a lot (both of my favourite clubs are in Adult regions, for instance), I almost never trip over people having sex. I seriously couldn't tell you the last time I did.

Again, your experience may differ. In fact, it is obviously does.

But you're only groping part of the elephant (and I can guess which part). SL is a complicated beast, and we each of us experience it in our own way. And for many of us (I have no idea if it's "most" or not, and neither do you), sex is just not a very important part of our SL.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No one is denying that sex is important. At a guess, I'd say that almost everyone on my friends list has been sexually active at one time or another (and that includes me), and maybe half are still engaged in it on a regular basis.

If I went to some clubs, I'd probably find lots of people wearing sexual attachments. If I go to others (the ones I go to regularly on Friday and Sunday nights, for instance), I am pretty sure I'd find few (and I've done a fair amount of incidental sampling at both places, using the What Is She Wearing HUD to find out what a particular dress or hair style was). Your mileage is going to differ a lot depending upon where you go.

What I can assert is that I know nobody who is in SL primarily, let alone "exclusively" for sex. I am entirely sure that some are, but to suggest that "most" are is unprovable and I'm pretty sure an exaggeration. Sex is no more the primary or exclusive point of all that most of us do in SL than it is of what we do in RL. It's an important part of who we are. It does not solely define us.

So,what percentage of both genders (there I said it, gender is binary) do NOT have genitalia? I'd guess maybe 10% for women (since women don't actually need any extra bits  to do it), and far far  less that 1% of males.

In all my years in second life I've met exactly ONE guy that says he doesn't have a pen*s and had no intention of ever getting one

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

So,what percentage of both genders (there I said it, gender is binary) do NOT have genitalia? I'd guess maybe 10% for women (since women don't actually need any extra bits  to do it), and far far  less that 1% of males.

In all my years in second life I've met exactly ONE guy that says he doesn't have a pen*s and had no intention of ever getting one

I have no idea. If you've ever been at all sexual active, you might well have one. (And men seem to be odd about this, and want one even if they aren't sexually active!)

Of my closest 7 women friends, one (or at most two) owns a mesh vajajay. (I don't -- but I do own a male thingy, which I bought for pics).

None of this proves that SL is "only" a porn site, or that most people log in "exclusively" for sex. I have a very large friends list (some 350 or so, although many of those are gone now). NONE of my friends has ever been in SL exclusively or primarily for sex. I just wouldn't know them if they had, because we'd not be hanging out at the same places: we'd likely never have met.

Your friends list might consist of 500 perpetually horny men (and women). Who knows? There are many SLs.

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

So,what percentage of both genders (there I said it, gender is binary) do NOT have genitalia? I'd guess maybe 10% for women (since women don't actually need any extra bits  to do it), and far far  less that 1% of males.

In all my years in second life I've met exactly ONE guy that says he doesn't have a pen*s and had no intention of ever getting one

Perhaps they need to urinate. We just don't know.

But joking aside, having appropriate body parts relates to identity and they're not indicative of desiring sexual behavior in SL.  I mean, how nice would I look in my new dress without any breasts?

[rasterscan]

Seen those womens panties with a bulge on the MP ?  What on earth could the bulge be if they're women ? Am I allowed to ask ?

[Arielle Popstar]

21 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

None of this proves that SL is "only" a porn site, or that most people log in "exclusively" for sex. I have a very large friends list (some 350 or so, although many of those are gone now). NONE of my friends has ever been in SL exclusively or primarily for sex. I just wouldn't know them if they had, because we'd not be hanging out at the same places: we'd likely never have met.

Your friends list might consist of 500 perpetually horny men (and women). Who knows? There are many SLs.

Doesn't the bolded part hint at something then for those who aren't here for the slex? 

[Orwar]

8 hours ago, WeFlossDaily said:

Men det är svenska inte

   Menar fröken måhända 'men det är inte svenska'?

3 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

That's why they cost so much, low sales, high sunk costs. The vehicles cost so much because Fanatical Vehicle Shoppers are a very, very small niche market, that certainly do NOT form the backbone of the SL economy, and never will.

   Pfft, you don't expect people to make pricing models based on any actual maths, do you? I agree, the vehicular enthusiasts don't spin as much money as, say, the fashion enthusiasts, but there are several airports and harbours that take up entire regions, the entirety of SNO is built to be navigable and the vast majority of its residents are there for that reason. I'd argue that it's very much a major reason as to why water-access parcels around the entire grid costs so much more than in-land plots, same as road-side plots being much more valuable than those without road access. Take a look at the world map, at any continent, and see how many GTFO sky-signs you can find, or petrol station signs, or helipads, or airports, or docks; the vehicle community in SL pay a whole lot of tier for the enhanced infrastructure, there's even user-owned plots just to improve upon LL's main roads in some places. The vehicular trade alone may not be gargantuan, but when you start putting together all the factors and look at how LL make an income from the users, it's not an insignificant revenue stream.

   When it comes to vehicle prices, it often has very little to do with economic models. Just as with furniture, you can buy motorbikes with 666 adult animations running on an antique ACS scriptset and a model snatched off Turbo Squid or ripped from some video game, usually with such bad LOD models (auto-generated by the mesh upload tool and all settings turned down to say 'hey it's only 119 LI!', of course') that the entire thing turns into a jumbled mess even at the default camera position unless you've put your LOD factor through the roof, for several thousand lindens - and you can buy custom-scripted vehicles with custom mesh models (some of which even designed for actually moving about the place!) for L$99. Is either representative of a 'fair' pecuniary compensation for its creators' work and expenses? Nah. 

   As for user retention though, I think the vehicular/exploration side of SL absolutely can help getting people to stick around. It's something to actually do, it's an activity that a lot of people enjoy doing together, something you can easily make friends whilst doing - and the best part is you don't have to 'pick sides', you can be both a helicopter pilot and a sailor and a fashion-devourer and a kinkster and a home-decorator and a photographer all at once. Works for me!

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, rasterscan said:

Seen those womens panties with a bulge on the MP ?  What on earth could the bulge be if they're women ? Am I allowed to ask ?

This area actually does have different sizes to it on women...some quite pronounced.  Not sure what you saw on the MP but likely it was hyper-exaggerated...lol.

[Istelathis]

37 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

So,what percentage of both genders (there I said it, gender is binary)

It is an interesting topic, from the culture I was raised in, the female gender was to be subservient to males, and not speak up.  In such a culture, you would be crossing the gender roles assigned to us, which were very binary.  By crossing such constraints, you betray your own convictions.