ValKalAstra Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) PFP is popular on Instagram, Tiktok and such. I reckon it's probably better to write PFP than PP. "Hey girl, did you see my new PP?" might be a wee bit awkward. Edited June 17 by ValKalAstra Why the bloody hells did THIS of all comments had to land on a new page. It's official, the forum hates me. 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 minutes ago, ValKalAstra said: PFP is popular on Instagram, Tiktok and such. I reckon it's probably better to write PFP than PP. "Hey girl, did you see my new PP?" might be a wee bit awkward. "I'm sorry, your PP was too small and I really couldn't see it." 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValKalAstra Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Leading this back to the business side of things. I don't think I've got that valuable of a voice in this. My own store is super small, single issue and only really sees activity every other month or so. I'm obviously not swamped in support requests or work. That said, if something were to happen to me health wise, which... is realistic, I would be away from things for months. Honestly, I might be mighty tempted to hand my account over to a trusted friend in that scenario. TOS be damned. If I get banned, well is that any different from what it were otherwise? At least my few customers would still get support in that scenario. Thus - I agree for the need of a business account. How? Well it's 2024, I'm sure LL can get inspiration somewhere. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I've known one club / mall owner (not MP seller) who used an Alt for "all things money", and never socialized with that Alt. I am "guessing", but by taking that path they could theoretically allow their partner to login as that alt and nobody would know. But anyway, I see one place where "gotchas" can happen: if an account does large L$ transfers but when "your friend/partner" logs in, they do a large L$ transfer to someone different than usual. Maybe that kind of thing could raise flags. My rambling point is, various business in SL must be sharing accounts all the time, but are probably not using their "mains" to do so. After all, depending on the type of business, who would want their "main" to get business / group messages on it anyway? A good business should hopefully have support individuals (and/or a support group), and the "owner's main" shouldn't need to get directly involved often. Just thoughts, only thoughts (based on reflections I've had over the years). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said: LL doesn't do 24/7 customer service so I guess they figure storeowners and creators shouldn't need to either. That's a reasonably good point. I don't see a very strong reason why anyone with a Marketplace shop should be expected to provide round the clock customer service. Except on the megasites in RL like Amazon (and usually not even there), I don't often find someone waiting 24/7 to answer questions or deal with complaints. I sleep and carry on other daily activities. Why shouldn't merchants be allowed to have a life too? We can wait. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 minute ago, Rolig Loon said: That's a reasonably good point. I don't see a very strong reason why anyone with a Marketplace shop should be expected to provide round the clock customer service. Except on the megasites in RL like Amazon (and usually not even there), I don't often find someone waiting 24/7 to answer questions or deal with complaints. I sleep and carry on other daily activities. Why shouldn't merchants be allowed to have a life too? We can wait. It's interesting that many customers and users expect SL and merchants to have 24/7 service! 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 5 hours ago, stlshayne said: If my livelihood was threatened (esp arguably at random and without sound justification), I'd ask my customers to back me up, too. Nothing scummy about that, IMO. Ain't like they're skewing a poll or contest or whatnot - just asking if people agree, presumably. Given the amount of group gifts DRD gives out, besides just making cool & well made items, asking customers to vote up on their continued existence is not unreasonable at all. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 7 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said: That's a reasonably good point. I don't see a very strong reason why anyone with a Marketplace shop should be expected to provide round the clock customer service. Except on the megasites in RL like Amazon (and usually not even there), I don't often find someone waiting 24/7 to answer questions or deal with complaints. I sleep and carry on other daily activities. Why shouldn't merchants be allowed to have a life too? We can wait. Maybe but might be inconvenient for those on the other side of the world from the creator/storeowner. There is enough negative comments about the Lab's small support window that many might consider as a way to not run a store. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: Maybe but might be inconvenient for those on the other side of the world from the creator/storeowner. Nah. Most customer service is asynchronous anyway. Someone in France who posts a question while I'm asleep can wait till I wake up. We can't reasonably expect merchants to run real time phone banks for instant service. There's hardly any question that's so life-threatening that it can't wait a few hours. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylie Jaxxon Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I don't believe the only reason why DRD does this is just for customer service. I think her partners are also involved in the building of creations, setting up, and a multitude of other things. DRD is very prolific with their releases. It would be impossible for one person to do all of that on that scale 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJoyful Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 14 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: was shut down recently and the owner's account temporarily suspended because they were using a shared account to run the business I don't think we know that for sure that was the reason the account and MP Store was frozen. It could be that some part of the operation was flagged, which in all fairness, freezing is the safest way to investigate a flag or a Report. I don't think LL could or should contact the operator of an account if its being investigated as that would tip off a hacker or phisher that they were under suspicion. It would eliminate any chance of funds disappearing until the matter was resolved. I think now they are probably using this unfortunate circumstance to highlight its importance and work on a viable and fair solution to a problem which hasn't had proper consideration and troubleshooting until now. Businesses in SL are many and deserve a proper method of conducting business as a team. LL is a team and there are businesses within SL who contribute a large amount to the economy... its not possible to run a large business with only 1 person doing everything, so hopefully this is an opportunity for all concerned to contribute suggestions, solutions and questions about how to address this issue in a timely manner. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasterscan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 The anomaly between Wiki and TOS must be fixed. Soon. 'Yes you can No you can't' could attract litigation, no ? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, BJoyful said: I don't think we know that for sure that was the reason the account and MP Store was frozen. It could be that some part of the operation was flagged, which in all fairness, freezing is the safest way to investigate a flag or a Report. I don't think LL could or should contact the operator of an account if its being investigated as that would tip off a hacker or phisher that they were under suspicion. It would eliminate any chance of funds disappearing until the matter was resolved. I think now they are probably using this unfortunate circumstance to highlight its importance and work on a viable and fair solution to a problem which hasn't had proper consideration and troubleshooting until now. Businesses in SL are many and deserve a proper method of conducting business as a team. LL is a team and there are businesses within SL who contribute a large amount to the economy... its not possible to run a large business with only 1 person doing everything, so hopefully this is an opportunity for all concerned to contribute suggestions, solutions and questions about how to address this issue in a timely manner. No, agreed -- there is much here we don't know, really, including the reason DRD was singled out by LL for this. I'm not, however, generally a subscriber to highly speculative conspiracy theories, so it may have been something very simple. And I get your point about freezing an account while an investigation is underway, but in this case it unnecessarily(?) created a not-so-minor panic. Probably LL didn't foresee that eventuality, but this might have been handled better, I think? Surely there is a relatively easy way to fix this, long term. We have a system for registering official scripted agents; surely something a bit like that would work for designated (and approved) "business accounts." 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasterscan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: We have a system for registering official scripted agents; surely something a bit like that would work for designated (and approved) "business accounts." Could start with just a tick box. Somewhere. 'Will this account be used for business by more than one user ?" If it's ticked, do stuff the coders have to figure out, or a different TOS for businesses as declared. Edited June 17 by rasterscan 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, rasterscan said: Could start with just a tick box. Somewhere. 'Will this account be used for business by more than one user ?" If it's ticked, do stuff the coders have to figure out, or a different TOS for businesses as declared. Yes, exactly. I can't imagine that this needs a major overhaul of the code. The tools exist already: LL just needs to clarify how they can be used. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I've read the other thread this thread is referring to. The rules are quite simple according to LL: Quote Section 4.1 You may not sell, transfer or assign your Account or its contractual rights, licenses and obligations, to any third party (including, for the avoidance of doubt, permitting another individual to access your Account) without the prior written consent of Linden Lab. Source: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Permitting_Others_to_Access_or_Transferring_Second_Life_Accounts In the other thread the OP said that they've tried multiple times to reason with LL on getting other people to access the account and it was denied. If at that point you do let others access it anyway, you are breaking the rules and are subject to the rules being enforced. Posting threads about how unfair it is, technically is another breach of the rules. "Thou shall not speak badly or negatively about LL" Don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm just saying what the rules are and that you've broken them. So yeah, you've learned a valuable lesson called -=> consequences <=- I'm not saying i would necessarily agree with LL's decision to disallow others to access your business account that need to access it. According to you, it is hurting your business, and sure i can sympathize with that. LL may not realize the importance this has to you, or they see your case in a different way then for example the Chungs. But the thing is, it is LL's decision not to allow others to access it. You (OP from the other thread) ignored that ruling. So this thread, and the other are just a tad whiny. I think OP should perhaps try another way to try and allow access to that account for multiple people. I'm however not sure that strong-arming/shaming LL through these forums is the best solution. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasterscan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I can't imagine that this needs a major overhaul of the code. The tools exist already: LL just needs to clarify how they can be used. Agreed. 'No you cant but yes you can with written permission we cannot give' ain't going to cut it anymore. So how do they marry the Wiki to the TOS. ? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasterscan Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: I'm however not sure that strong-arming/shaming LL through these forums is the best solution. So far that hasn't happened. When it does I'm sure the padlock will come out ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 9 minutes ago, rasterscan said: So far that hasn't happened. This thread and the other one are the definition of it, but sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 13 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: I think OP should perhaps try another way to try and allow access to that account for multiple people. I'm however not sure that strong-arming/shaming LL through these forums is the best solution. At least it is a warning to others that SL is not a safe place in many respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Just now, Arielle Popstar said: At least it is a warning to others that SL is not a safe place in many respects. Pfft, oh please. Don't, just don't. "safe place". Rolling my eyes so far back in my head that i make direct eye contact with the goblin that operates me like a marionette. So, breaking the rules, then whining about it equals SL isn't a safe place? You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding. I've said it many times. You are a guest in LL's house, they make the rules, not you. They can make decisions, enforce one rule while being more tolerant on another and they don't have to explain to you a single thing. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp? Sure i also not always agree with what LL does, but i know what i clicked "I agree" to. Do y'all? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaithLynnSayes Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Something else i also said a couple of times: Don't build your house on land you don't own. AKA, don't start a business on a platform you don't own. Or at least don't fully rely on it. Case in point, a rule is broken, LL acts. You have no right to shout fire now. I have a small gig running in SL where i occasionally make a plane, but mostly script for a few well known creators. (I'm probably in your inventory somewhere.) But i don't depend on it. I have my own business RL together with my partner. This, SL, is just for giggles and if it makes a penny along the way, great! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 25 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: In the other thread the OP said that they've tried multiple times to reason with LL on getting other people to access the account and it was denied. If at that point you do let others access it anyway, you are breaking the rules and are subject to the rules being enforced. Posting threads about how unfair it is, technically is another breach of the rules. "Thou shall not speak badly or negatively about LL" Don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm just saying what the rules are and that you've broken them. So yeah, you've learned a valuable lesson called -=> consequences <=- I don't think, generally, that the point of this and the other thread is to defend "breaking the rules." What most of us are suggesting is that LL needs to change the rules so that "breaking" them is unnecessary. I also don't think that we need to "speak badly" about LL, if by that you mean trashing them. Criticizing a part of their ToS that doesn't address a pretty major issue faced by business owners, landowners, and large group managers isn't being "negative"; it's drawing their attention to a problem that they clearly need to address. In the final analysis, LL will address this issue for the simple reason that there is some danger of an exodus of merchants from the platform if they don't. In other words, we are trying to help LL, and preserve the platform. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 2 minutes ago, CaithLynnSayes said: Something else i also said a couple of times: Don't build your house on land you don't own. AKA, don't start a business on a platform you don't own. Or at least don't fully rely on it. Case in point, a rule is broken, LL acts. You have no right to shout fire now. I have a small gig running in SL where i occasionally make a plane, but mostly script for a few well known creators. (I'm probably in your inventory somewhere.) But i don't depend on it. I have my own business RL together with my partner. This, SL, is just for giggles and if it makes a penny along the way, great! It's totally cool that this is your attitude. Had it been everyone else's, SL would have dwindled into nothing 15 or more years ago. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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